Phalanx Superiority

[Amaranth]

Here's an example of Phalanx Vs Urban Cohort battle. (I choosed spartans cause they're equal in number with Urbans [in Huge unit scale option they are 81vs83] and also they're stronger than other phalanxes.) Note that these are taken from an unpatched, Vanilla RTW.


Time for Formation.

Phalanx Formation and Defensive Mode Unselected, Units are set to Loose Formation.

They're set to form Phalanx again.

The battle begins. Romans marches forward, while Spartans hold their position.

This is a good distance. Now Spartans can also move forward and attack. Romans will soon throw javelins. Spartans shouldn't stand and wait, cause if they do, Romans will have time to throw Javelins for a second time. (The first ones though, are unavoidable.)

Contact. Romans throws javelins, luckly they miss, now the forces are matched evenly when the real fight begins.

Battle goes on, Since Urbans lost their advantage when they miss Spartans and they both start in equal numbers, Spartans attacks at full force, Right now as can be seen Urbans have 47 soldier while Spartans have 66. Urbans failed to break through Phalanx line.

Both Generals lies dead. Spartans returns to Tight Formation and while gaining quite advantage in defence they also causes heavy casualty to their foes, They left Urbans with 14 soldiers while Spartans still have 39.

Urbans routs! Spartans has 32 soldiers and the last remaining Roman desperately runs away.

"Run for the hills!" he yells, though in Grassy Flatland there are no hills nearby. Spartans charges to slay their last remaining foe.


Here's my result.

[Legio]

You had Spartans.
Lucky ber.
JK, nice job killing the Romans!

[Amaranth]

I'm gonna post another one.
Silver Shield Pikemen Vs Urban Cohort.

[Nevski]

I think the outcome also depends on position of the unit
urbans haven't managed at least partially to surround spartan phalanx to kill guys on the flanks,

Maybe if urbans (U) would have positioned themselves like this, they could destroy spartans (S) killing it from the sides.

------------ssssssssssssssssssssssss--------------
------------ssssssssssssssssssssssss--------------
------------ssssssssssssssssssssssss--------------
------------ssssssssssssssssssssssss--------------

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Anyway, I'm not a roman fan, so I'm kinda glad spartans kicked roman arse.

[Amaranth]

Yeah position of the unit is important, especially for the phalanx.

[Made-in-the-uk]

my experiences have taught me that royal pikes beat silver shield pikes every time, and when playing online i would always manouver the urns around the flanks, and if the urbs were spread thinner they would go round the flanks, also 10k of urbs would probably beat 10k of spartans as they are pretty expensive

[Amaranth]

I guess we're certain that human player has a great advantage, but that result I posted up there was taken after 3-4 tries. Which means AI Urbans can beat Spartans in 1vs1 against human opponents. As I said before morale is very important, if your captain falls (especially until you gain th upperhand in the battle) you're much likely to lose, no matter what unit you're playing with. I remember once 3 Urbans killed 6 Spartans and won the battle. It's also important to play Defensive. Sometimes ppl are inpatient and charge their phalanxes against their opponent, but doing this prevents your units to guard themselves effectively (especially against missiles which thrown by Urbans) and thus taking a lot of casualties and also causing your units to tire themselves for no reason, but if you wait and march slowly in phalanx formation you can even take the missiles but yet giving no casualty at all. Numbers are ofcourse very important too.

[C-Rob]

I loved the Armored Hoplite of hte Greek cities. Quick to get and to recruit, cheap, strong, they allowed me to throttle the macedonians, romans, and egyptains without too much trouble.

Silver shields are also really, REALLY good. They can basically hold the line for ages against almost everything.

[Amaranth]

I loved the Armored Hoplite of hte Greek cities. Quick to get and to recruit, cheap, strong, they allowed me to throttle the macedonians, romans, and egyptains without too much trouble.

Silver shields are also really, REALLY good. They can basically hold the line for ages against almost everything.

Try recruiting some Spartans and watch the world kneel down before you

[aznflea]

roman legionaires biggest strength lies in their mobility and pila storm. they pack a huge punch when figting in close as well. 1v1 doesnt show much, what really makes the legions shine is in a larger battle. the ability to flank and throw pila is extremely powerful and if used right they just totally kick ass. they cant defend against elephants and cataphracts like phalanx on bridges or strategical points but on open field or hills theyre worth their weight in gold.

i find the phalanx extremely cumbersome and i lost interest in the greeks after having to wait to approach the enemy army in triple speed. the phalanx is good but i got sick of it after losing 6000 men to the egyptians. those homos and their cav archers are despicable.

[HeroSK]

i the phalanx is good but i got sick of it after losing 6000 men to the egyptians. those homos and their cav archers are despicable.

Actually Greeks are the good answer aganist Eggies, since chariots will be slaugtered in front of the phalanx. But you need Creatans or Rhodians to repel those chariot archers.

Back to topic, I am a phalanx fan, even though the are slow and hard to use. I feel more confortable when they are standing on my frontline.

[Toorima]

Of course the Phalanx is an extremely powerful type of unit, that's why Cryus was so eager getting the ten thousand hoplitau for his attempt to become king.

But not the strength of a single unit, but the tactical skill of the commander is the key to success. Besides their defensive power, morale and armor, a phalanx is also slow and immobile. Archers, attacks from the back and encirclement are some ways to deal with a phalanx.

[Lord Dakier]

You dont charge straight at a Phalanx its no wonder why the Urban Cohort died. Legionnaires against Spartans I think we both know who would win in the history books. The Spartans are no where near as powerfull as they should be even though they handle themselves well.

[Saint_jimmyz]

The trick with silver shields is to use pikemen as your main infantry units, and 2-3 silver shield legionarries on each flank, and 2-3 units of katatanks on their flanks. Engage the enemy with your pikes, immediatly throw your legionarries onto the flanks of the enemy. Katatanks can then defeat any enemy flankers and charge the rear of the enemy. Lethal combination!

[Magno]

You dont charge straight at a Phalanx its no wonder why the Urban Cohort died. Legionnaires against Spartans I think we both know who would win in the history books. The Spartans are no where near as powerfull as they should be even though they handle themselves well.

I believe that if urban cohorts take on Spartans 1vs.1 in the time of Rome
s ascendance Spartans would of won, Spartans were better trained and disciplined.

[Saint_jimmyz]

The trick with silver shields is to use pikemen as your main infantry units, and 2-3 silver shield legionarries on each flank, and 2-3 units of katatanks on their flanks. Engage the enemy with your pikes, immediatly throw your legionarries onto the flanks of the enemy. Katatanks can then defeat any enemy flankers and charge the rear of the enemy. Lethal combination!

And if you're feeling really mean, try using elephants on the flanks!

[aznflea]

why not use cavalry like normal commanders?

im pretty sure that if the spartans didnt use the sarissa they would have won in a fight with equal numbers. they were the most trained and disciplined warriors at the time right?

btw when i said i got slaughtered i had to fight a couple thousand chariot archers. although to be fair i didnt have my armored hoplites.

[Toorima]

I believe that if urban cohorts take on Spartans 1vs.1 in the time of Rome
s ascendance Spartans would of won, Spartans were better trained and disciplined.

Spartan Hoplitai really wasn't the unbeatable wonderweapon they were celebrated as. In the peloponnesian war for example, most cities' soldiers were really afraid of the infamous spartans, but even though they were beaten several times in battle. Same with the later times. At Leuktra the myth of the invincible spartans vanished, against the macedons the greek cities didn't stand a chance and that the hellenistic armies of Philip V., Perseus and Antiochos couldn't stand up to the romans shows it all. The phalanx was a genial infantry tactic for a long time but was outdated by the time new tactics arose.

And I wouldn't say that spartans were better trained and disciplined than roman elite soldiers in general. Just read Polybius about how the romans manage to set up a fortified camp every night to see what the big differences between greeks and roman was. Still they were citizens in arms and no professional soldiers. Spartans were maybe the best citizen soliders in classic greece, but that's about it.

[Saint_jimmyz]

Spartan Hoplitai really wasn't the unbeatable wonderweapon they were celebrated as. In the peloponnesian war for example, most cities' soldiers were really afraid of the infamous spartans, but even though they were beaten several times in battle. Same with the later times. At Leuktra the myth of the invincible spartans vanished, against the macedons the greek cities didn't stand a chance and that the hellenistic armies of Philip V., Perseus and Antiochos couldn't stand up to the romans shows it all. The phalanx was a genial infantry tactic for a long time but was outdated by the time new tactics arose.

And I wouldn't say that spartans were better trained and disciplined than roman elite soldiers in general. Just read Polybius about how the romans manage to set up a fortified camp every night to see what the big differences between greeks and roman was. Still they were citizens in arms and no professional soldiers. Spartans were maybe the best citizen soliders in classic greece, but that's about it.

One can also say that about the Urban Cohort as well. The urban cohort is jsut a title given to the legions defending Rome and the other major Italian cities, and were no different to any other legions. Apart from the obvious fear factor of course. And the main reason the roman legions were effective was the choice of weapons and armour, coupled with good training that was common amongst the elites of other armies.

[Strategist]

Amaranth while i started playing RTW i also admired and loved phalanx units especially i liked Seleucids because i've watched also Alexander the movie and this inspired my conquest. I love also their grey colour and how they beat all other units in melle combat. They are good agains elephants too and chariots. I love how they kill anything. But if the enemy is smart and see what is your army before battles he can crush you by simply 3 strategies.
1. Make only missile units which will finish their ammo but can make your morale drop and finish you with generals.
2. Make missile/cavalry and attack you with cavalry from behind. If you turn your phalanxses back they will die easily from spears/arrows and will increase your loses.
3.Attack you with good micro play from flanks with only infantry and your phalanxes will be too slow to turn and hit from the side. While they are turning they are pretty weak. Also i think they die easiest from range because of their small round shields ;(.

Lol nice mistake discovery
"Run for the hills!" he yells, though in Grassy Flatland there are no hills nearby. Spartans charges to slay their last remaining foe.