For King or Country - The English civil war

[Son of Mao]

Interesting, so will it only be Pikes, Muskets and mounted gunners?

[Ahiga]

HAY AD,

Which faction of the two is your favorite, if you could choose? I suppose I'm asking do you stand with the King, or the Parliament?

Really amazing stuff, I'm glad you're featuring that distinction amongst the various regiments. Given the regularity of the military units at this time (Not as much diversity amongst dress or gear the way there might have been in 1066), it's going to help towards featuring greater variation amongst the ranks.

[Comrade the Colonel]

nice preview

[firekiller]

Ahhh caracole, an interesting topic. Caracole was a classic reiter tactic, but from what I've read it wasn't used in the English civil war. Infact most cavalry fights in the English civil war revolved around shooting during charging.



Excellent question. I will try to represent differences between regiments from their historical record. For example:

Hopton's - Experienced
Essex's - Well trained
King's lifeguard - High morale/dedicated
Stamford's - Low morale. Unlucky buggers having that man commanding them.
Manchester's - His regiment was busted up at Edgehill, but went onto be one of the most succesful.
Rupert's - Impetious (as he was).
Brooke's - Nothing very amazing about this man or regiment.
Northampton's - Again nothing very amazing about them
Fairfax's - Well trained
Newcastle's - Excellent morale (based on their stand at marston moor).
Trayned bands - Well armoured (wearing buff coats)

I see very good this. Will cav/art be also trained in a way like the infantery.

Suggestion:

Some provinces in england prefered the royalist or parlement. Will this be represented as some kind of recruiting. Like provinces A likes the royalist so the recruiting poll is big and fills up quick.

For example provinces B doesnt like royalist will those recruiting polls be smaller and fills up slower.

If you implent that it would really make it more historical so as 1 force you rather not lose a terroity that likes you

[Bernem]

Ahhh caracole, an interesting topic. Caracole was a classic reiter tactic, but from what I've read it wasn't used in the English civil war. Infact most cavalry fights in the English civil war revolved around shooting during charging.

So, assuming you give the pistols a rather short range. You'd have to close in and fire before the musketeers have focussed on you. That'll be challenging

[AlphaDelta]

Interesting, so will it only be Pikes, Muskets and mounted gunners?

Artillery and dragoons also. I've found no evidence for any other type of unit on the battlefield so far, let me know if you find anything.

Which faction of the two is your favorite, if you could choose? I suppose I'm asking do you stand with the King, or the Parliament?

Good question. I think I would choose the Royalists. Afterall ... "If we beat the King 99 times out of a 100 he will still be King. If we lose just once we lose our heads".

Really amazing stuff, I'm glad you're featuring that distinction amongst the various regiments.

It was quite a lot of work to represent the different regiments, but well worth it, there was no way I could of allowed just one unit per side with faction coloured coats. There's still scope for more variation, if anyone requests a regiment and commander be featured I will seriously look into it.

I see very good this. Will cav/art be also trained in a way like the infantery.

Yes I tiered them all already..Currently it's like this.

Royalist harquebusiers - Impetuous, 1 point less armoured than the troopers. 1 point charge bonus over the troopers.
Parliamentarian troopers - Well disciplined. 1 point more armour and 1 point more defense skill than harquebusiers.
Royalist lifeguard - Well trained. 1 point more armour and defense skill than the harquebusiers. 1 point better charge than harquebusiers.
Parliamentarian Haslerigg’s cavalry - Well armoured. 3 points more armour than the lifeguard. 1 point less attack with sword and 1 point less defense skill because of their encumberence.

Some provinces in england prefered the royalist or parlement. Will this be represented as some kind of recruiting. Like provinces A likes the royalist so the recruiting poll is big and fills up quick.

This is partially represented. I renamed religion to 'Support' and changed the religions to 'Parliamentarian' and 'Royalist'. This means that certain areas will be difficult to control. However it's not possible to limit recruitment by 'support', I think it can only be done by using Kingdoms which I won't use.

So, assuming you give the pistols a rather short range. You'd have to close in and fire before the musketeers have focussed on you. That'll be challenging

Musketeers will make minced meat out of cavalry if you dont keep them moving. Learning to feel the range of musketeers is going to be important in keeping them alive. Short, sharp charges into the flanks and rear should do the job.

Cheers

[Der Angelsachse]

There's still scope for more variation, if anyone requests a regiment and commander be featured I will seriously look into it.

As i'm never one to look a gift horse in the mouth I'm going to get in there before you change your mind AD

For the Royalist cause Prince Maurice's Regiment of Horse would be a nice addition as Maurice, despite the idea that he lived in his brother's shadow, was actually an important commander in his own right.
Also it'd be nice to see Colonel John Lamplugh's whitecoats but that's more a personal thing.

As for Parliament, well Sir William Waller's pretty important; the best of friends with Hopton before the war they found themselves facing each other on the battlefield numerous times.
And if there was a chance then seeing Sir Ralph Weldon's Kentish Regiment of Foote would be great too.

Cheers and keep up the good work!

[DaVinci]

so finally the cantabrian circle will have some use!

For sure would be ahistorical in this mod.


The preview: Excellent work, AlphaDelta

[Miraj]

Seems like interest is down a bit, so here is a preview that explains the Association system and the different regiments available.

The Militia Ordinance vs Commissions of Array

During the run upto the beginning of the English civil war, tensions grew between King and Parliament. Control of the county militias, known as trained bands became a central focus as there was no standing army in England. The tensions began to boil and in January 1642 King Charles attempted to arrest 5 members of Parliament. Parliaments reaction was to deny Charles control of the Army.

Parliament passed 'The Militia Ordinance'. It was a piece of legislation that pushed the country one step closer towards Civil War between the King and Parliament of England. It permitted parliament to choose who could command the militia and where. This was an outrage to the King who had traditionally been in control of appointing the Lord Lieutenants to command the county militias (known as Trained bands). It was the first law Parliament had put into affect without royal approval.

In response the king sent out commissions of array to gentry across England empowering them to summon all men aged 15-60. The question of whether to obey Parliament's Militia Ordinance or the King's Commission of Array became an early test of allegiance for nobles and gentry.

Parliaments militia ordinance divided the nation up into "Associations". Each association had a commander and it was his job to recruit into his regiments. This system is simulated in For King or Country.



The map above shows the 6 associations that facilitate recruitment of regimented infantry. Both inside and outside of the associations you can recruit basic militia units providing the settlement has a Militia hall, not a Regimental headquarters.


The Regiments

Parliamentarian RegimentsRoyalist Regiments

Southern Association

The Earl of Essex's regiment of FooteKing Charles I lifeguard of foote



Western Association

The Earl of Stamford's regiment of FooteRalph Hopton's regiment of foote



Eastern Association

The Earl of Manchester's regiment of FootePrince Rupert's regiment of blew coat foote




Midland Association

The Baron of Brooke's regiment of FooteSpencer Compton's regiment of foote



Northern Association

Thomas Fairfax's regiment of foote The Earl of Newcastle's regiment of foote



London Association

Tower Hamlet Trayned bands



Militia

Parliamentarian militia regiment of footeRoyalist militia regiment of foote



Cavalry

Haslerigg’s regiment of horseKing Charles I's lifeguard of horse



Parliamentarian troopersRoyalist harquebusiers



Hope you enjoyed this preview.

Cheers

Superbly detailed and in-depth my friend.

This is going to be a classic me-thinks. That's two under your belt now.

[AlphaDelta]

As i'm never one to look a gift horse in the mouth I'm going to get in there before you change your mind AD

The offer will remain indefinitely open.

For the Royalist cause Prince Maurice's Regiment of Horse would be a nice addition as Maurice, despite the idea that he lived in his brother's shadow, was actually an important commander in his own right.

Maurice is a great idea and infact I contemplated adding him a while back. He was only 21 at the start of the war and he lived a short an interesting life. My only reservation being that he was a cavalry commander at the start of the war and was not given a commission of array until '44. I will add him though and give him command of a decent force of lifeguard cavalry.

Also it'd be nice to see Colonel John Lamplugh's whitecoats but that's more a personal thing.

I searched for information about John Lamplugh, but I found nothing about him or his regiment. Could you provide some information?

As for Parliament, well Sir William Waller's pretty important;

Waller's in. He commands a force of cavalry and a small number of militia foot. He starts close to Winchester and will take part in the siege of Portsmouth as in history.

And if there was a chance then seeing Sir Ralph Weldon's Kentish Regiment of Foote would be great too.

Again I can't find any information about this man or his regiment.

[Nakharar]

To be true this is one of the most basic ideas ever always been tried but in the end a 1 man mod suits it any chance war of the Roses next

[AlphaDelta]

To be true this is one of the most basic ideas ever always been tried but in the end a 1 man mod suits it

Yes, the concept is basic, however the work is not.

Even a 'basic' total conversion mod requires a huge amount of work. Dual/tri/quad-faction mods like 17th century mod, 1066 and For King or country are quite frankly the only types of mod being developed outside of experienced large mod teams that will be released. BC, which is medium in size took an insane numbers of hours to develop, the sort of quantity that makes a modder wonder why he ever started. I regularly see people posting concepts for mods involving huge maps of entire continents and 25-30 factions. Either these people are deluded, masochistic or plain ol' liers.

Cheers

[AlphaDelta]

Map preview - If you're using 1024x768 hit F11 now.

The southwest, Hoptons stomping ground.


Dartmoor


Exmoor


The fortified settlements of Bristol and sherborne


Southern England and the new forest


London to Dover


Central England


The river seven and the counties bordering wales


Central Wales


South western Wales and the southern road to England


Northern wales


Peak district


The midlands


Norfolk, the rump of Britain


Hull, loyal to Parliament and an important arsenal Fairfax must protect it


York should be further south, and so should the road, but ahh who cares


Lake district and Yorkshire dales


Hope you enjoyed the map preview.

[sud commander]

great preview! you are a exellent modeller (the best for me) and a great mapper! you are fantastic!

[Giovi]

awesome

[Yelü Dashi]

great to see Bristol Castle makes an appearance. spiffing stuff !

[Nakharar]

Nice any chance we can see the faciton symnols??

[Ahiga]

BC, which is medium in size took an insane numbers of hours to develop, the sort of quantity that makes a modder wonder why he ever started.

Because he is an awesome crazy man. That's why.

Have you thought about the officer slot in a Unit? You only need to tweak a unit so that they wield only 1 weapon (A sword or spear, really). For instance I could just enter the unit type for Ayyubid Askaris Swordsmen into the 'officer' line of a unit of Ajnad spearmen, and they'd have an Askaris Swordsmen as their officer.

If you know how as others have done, you could do a flag-bearing officer, or simply just a sword bearing officer.

[AlphaDelta]

Because he is an awesome crazy man. That's why.

Have you thought about the officer slot in a Unit? You only need to tweak a unit so that they wield only 1 weapon (A sword or spear, really). For instance I could just enter the unit type for Ayyubid Askaris Swordsmen into the 'officer' line of a unit of Ajnad spearmen, and they'd have an Askaris Swordsmen as their officer.

If you know how as others have done, you could do a flag-bearing officer, or simply just a sword bearing officer.

Not only have I thought about it, I already made an officer and experimented with a flag bearer.



The flag bearer model is temporary. The experiment was a partial success. Generally it animates ok, the big problem is that there is no control over the LoD'ing, as soon as the main unit switches from models to sprites, so does the flag bearer and you lose the flag. KE has banners in the works so I'll doubt i'll move on further with this experiement.

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

Excellent map, AD.