Whats happening

[Evolution]

I have made this topic because two people in GSTK seem to believe that the order is controlling Parliament, or trying to.... still.

The Order has left its mark and Parliament is the way they left it and wanted it. Parliament is working ad the order are happy with that.

Now I have been fighting against clergy powers not for the benefit of the Order. This Clergy Constitution I have made is not for the order. This is simply to make the powers of the Clergy official, We know what they can and can't do but we are just placing it on Paper so they never will be able to do anything they shouldn't be.

As I have said so many times that I have lost count " The Order is not here to over take the Game, We want no power and Proof of that is me not becoming Lord Chancellor.". The whole point of the Order was to end the civil war, get on with the game and improve parliament by making a new office. We have done that, mission achieved. So stop saying we are trying to make another civil war because we can't, we are not allowed to and we don't want to.

These are the only things the Order has changed in the Parliament.

Link

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is the last time the Order will be able to force anything upon this Kingdom.

This constitution for the new office Lord Chancellor and some other things.


1. The King and the Lord chancellor both have equal power in Parliament.

2. the Pope will not effect how we run our parliament (he does not decide how we run our Country)

3. In the event of a war the King can nationalize Parliament. (he can remove the Lord Chancellor position)

4. Parliament can only declare war if war is declared on them first.

5. Parliament does not have an army.

6. When the Order gives back Parliament to the Country (today) it will no longer be able to Force constitutions to pass.

7. The Lord chancellor Controls Parliament but the king will have the ultimate power.

8. The Lord chancellor is the leader of GSTK when the King is not here or unless the King does not appoint a steward.


These will be enforced as of now.

This Constitution is signed by the Grandmaster of the Rose and the King.

Long live England, Long Live King Rufus II

The second I can't link because it was a Pm to the King.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok caesar as you can see another army has just appeared. But wait we are fighting for you.

We are fighting for Prince Rufus as you can see all we want to kill is King Rufus.

I ask you caesar to allow King Rufus to die some how (i don't care how) and do the following allow us to make You Prince Rufus king and create a new office within the Parliament. I the Founder of the order of the rose want Knight of Sciliy to be a prime minister.

Having this office will not remove power from you. It is just a 2nd opinion in some of your decisions for example if you declare something and he disagrees then we will discuss the matter so it works for you and the people.

Now the Order of the Rose fight for Rufus and we do not wish to rebel but inorder to end this civil war we had to.

I ask that you pardon all of our members and allow us to end this war. All we ask for in return is that You become King again, KOS becomes a prime minister and all are pardoned (Order of the Rose).

The Order Of the Rose will give you all power and you can decide whether or not to disband us or keep us to prevent any rebels. (unless you want another civil war like next month lol)

Please note that the King accepted all of this and notice how I said Pardon all members of the rose... I can post a Screen shot if you wish?

[Dance the older]

OOC: Everything done after the war has been instilled by you. You have done far more to change things than the Clergy, The LC, and The King. That isn't a compliment, it's a dictatorship. Adolf Hitler bended the people's mind to, until he got what he wanted. His Order was called the Nazi Party. Sure, they weren't violent at the start either, but they bended the peoples minds (after the war) and then once he got in power, he changed everything. I see exact resemblances here. Was it not you, after all, who install the LC, therefore I see a direct connection with him. He will be grateful to you for it and he won't turn his back on you in the future.

*NOTE* Keep in mind, I said that I see exact resemblances

BTW, Caesar called off the trial last night, so you got nothing to worry about.

[Evolution]

Oh here we go again... Celsius stop trying to stir arguments.

Did you read my post upside down?

btw the Nazi's had power the order has none. We gave it all away and we are glad we did.

The only thing you hate about the way we have created parliament is that we have limited your powers... the king isn't complaining, you are.

now for gods sake Celsius if you want to argue about things go in the Etho's section, they would love to have you.


He called the Trial off because I asked him to. This whole " I am the Pope and what Celsius says goes " is getting on his nerves and mine.

[Dance the older]

Oh here we go again... Celsius stop trying to stir arguments.

Did you read my post upside down?

btw the Nazi's had power the order has none. We gave it all away and we are glad we did.

The only thing you hate about the way we have created parliament is that we have limited your powers... the king isn't complaining, you are.

now for gods sake Celsius if you want to argue about things go in the Etho's section, they would love to have you.


He called the Trial off because I asked him to. This whole " I am the Pope and what Celsius says goes " is getting on his nerves and mine.

OOC: Actually, the fact that you limited his powers to basically nothing by 1081 is ridiculous. We just started the game and you already limited his powers to nothing. He should be able to do what he wants as King, but now he has to answer to you and your Order? I guess it was pretty nice to start the Order. Yeah, being the only order you take in all these freedmen and give them all ranks. Then you say you have the people? All I see speaking on these forums is Order members, therefore, you do have the power. It's easy to start an Order and take over things when all you have to do is notice the Clergy has 1 member, the Monarchy has 1 member, and the Order has about what, 7 or 8 now? You abused the fact that the Clergy had no members and the King was by himself. Like I said, things are moving too quickly. You should have waited until there was equal opposition before you go and change things like you have.

It's no wonder that everyone will join the order, or even AN order for that matter, they are in love with the legends of the Knights Templar, Teutonic Knights, Hospitaller Knights, Knights of Santiago, etc. Is it any wonder that they wouldn't want to be in an Order in this game? Not really. But the fact we only have about 8 active members, if that, and everything to be changed this quickly, is ridiculous. We should wait on all these things until we have 20-30 active members. Things are moving far too quickly.

Btw, you argue with every post I make, continuously at that. Don't start anything about me arguing as well. Somebody has to oppose this....

[Evolution]

ooc: Don't take this personnally Celsius.

[Dance the older]

OOC: There's nothing personal about it. The fact that your molding this game to inaccuracies all over the place is ruining the point of it, no?

EDIT: Great rebuttal there, I am awestruck. BTW, you know I'm right, it's okay.

[Evolution]

These are the only things the Order has changed in the Parliament.

Link

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is the last time the Order will be able to force anything upon this Kingdom.

This constitution for the new office Lord Chancellor and some other things.


1. The King and the Lord chancellor both have equal power in Parliament.

2. the Pope will not effect how we run our parliament (he does not decide how we run our Country)

3. In the event of a war the King can nationalize Parliament. (he can remove the Lord Chancellor position)

4. Parliament can only declare war if war is declared on them first.

5. Parliament does not have an army.

6. When the Order gives back Parliament to the Country (today) it will no longer be able to Force constitutions to pass.

7. The Lord chancellor Controls Parliament but the king will have the ultimate power.

8. The Lord chancellor is the leader of GSTK when the King is not here or unless the King does not appoint a steward.


These will be enforced as of now.

This Constitution is signed by the Grandmaster of the Rose and the King.

Long live England, Long Live King Rufus II

The second I can't link because it was a Pm to the King.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok caesar as you can see another army has just appeared. But wait we are fighting for you.

We are fighting for Prince Rufus as you can see all we want to kill is King Rufus.

I ask you caesar to allow King Rufus to die some how (i don't care how) and do the following allow us to make You Prince Rufus king and create a new office within the Parliament. I the Founder of the order of the rose want Knight of Sciliy to be a prime minister.

Having this office will not remove power from you. It is just a 2nd opinion in some of your decisions for example if you declare something and he disagrees then we will discuss the matter so it works for you and the people.

Now the Order of the Rose fight for Rufus and we do not wish to rebel but inorder to end this civil war we had to.

I ask that you pardon all of our members and allow us to end this war. All we ask for in return is that You become King again, KOS becomes a prime minister and all are pardoned (Order of the Rose).

The Order Of the Rose will give you all power and you can decide whether or not to disband us or keep us to prevent any rebels. (unless you want another civil war like next month lol)

Please note that the King accepted all of this and notice how I said Pardon all members of the rose... I can post a Screen shot if you wish?

[Evolution]

ooc: Now please grow up and stop trying to make an argument out of everything.

Enjoy the game

[Dance the older]

OOC: And I can post a screenshot of his PM to me saying he wanted you and three others put on trial, and the post on here where he says he wants a trial for all the members. He asked someone else to post it because he couldn't. Being the only non-Order member basically, I had no choice but to post it. If it had of been Caradog, or Jeb, or anyone else, you would have had the same reaction and jump down my throat like it was my call to make a trial. It was Caesar's call, but some of you can't get that through your heads, you blame me for it because you don't want Caesar against you.

[Evolution]

You see how you have just completely changed the subject?

Liek I said the King accepted to pardon us all. I posted him laster on last night telling him about this and he accepted. that is why he as delayed the Trial.

He hasn't gotten rid of it in fear you will run around like a loonatic. We are going to discuss what will happen. He will pardon us because he accepted our terms.



now celsius will you stop these needless posts of how the Order are controlling everything... we are not .

I agree that a few of our members joined us because we were an order but I know, you know that not all of our members joined simply because it was an order.


The whole thing about the Clergy Constitution isn't taking power away from you (at first it was) its just saying what the Papacy can do and cannot. On paper so if you ever say "decided the King will no longer be King and you are King of England" we can say " Wait no you can't look at that constitution ". Its not taking you out of the game its just stopping you from making huge decisions which would/could be unfair.


If you disagree with it some how then like I said in that post change it or add to it so its suits you. The Cerlgy Constitution wasn't made by the order. The Clergy Constitution also hasn't been turned into a Poll or approved by any leaders.

You can always feel free to make a topic on what the Order can and can't do but that would be useless because everyone pretty much knows now what we can and cannot due to this topic I have created.

[Dance the older]

You changed the subject. The post #4 you shied away from not answering. You didn't even deny it, so I guess it's basically true what you were doing.

[Evolution]

You changed the subject. The post #4 you shied away from not answering. You didn't even deny it, so I guess it's basically true what you were doing.

what did you say? I didn't bother reading it because I pretty much knew what is was on about "I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, I hate the order, "

[Dance the older]

Exactly my point, I was correct in that post, I hope everyone in the game reads it and realizes.

[Evolution]

Exactly my point, I was correct in that post, I hope everyone in the game reads it and realizes.

Do what he wants as king. Oh I see yes, wait! do you know what the Magna Carta is?

I am not stopping people from leaving the order..


The reason why I introduced Ranks is because a few members were unhappy that they were being demoted by the king, I tried to keep the Spirit of GSTK up by introducing ranks.

The King wasn't on his own, I was on his side and a few other members were also, There was also a rebellion they had the most members. I started out as nothing and then became the biggest.

You say the Order has power, but we no longer control Parliament. I win votes because the members of GSTK wanted that. If you won all you polls would you start ramping and raving saying to yourself that your completely out of bounds lol?


I haven't created this discussion to make arguments it was just to show people what we were about and what we are now. It was you who came on here Sayign all this stuff about us and every time you have I have Countered it with something.



Now if your truely not taking this personnally prove it to me and everyone else by not posting in this topic. Your Arguing is boring and unwanted.

[Dance the older]

OOC: I believe your taking it personally. When I posted that trial thread, you darted in the second your name was mentioned. Albeit, you would have had your say at the trial, you were afraid your character might die. There is always a chance of that, once we get the Crusades and all that going, with the dice rolls, nobody is safe, not even myself.

[Evolution]

I didn't like the trial because the king said we were pardoned.


Why do you insist on arguing in my topic.

You've lost every argument with me lol.

Its simple don't post in it. make your own god damn topic

[Dance the older]

I do, and you just argue in mine anyways , so I'm flipping it around for once. You could have simply PM'd Caesar about the trial instead of start a post war in that thread. Just wait for his response. I wasn't going to take it any further than the original post.

[Evolution]

Ok then, If spamming my thread will make you happy then please do not let me prevent you.

But you must agree that all your allegations are false. As you can see you have just made these allegations with what you think is happening. As I have proven with all my replies that your allegations are false you should now be reconsidering your claims as to what our Order of "Nazi's" are and post some replies that are actually true.

If you have no proof of these accusations then you pretty much loosing these "arguments" you continue to stir.

I have only replied and fought back in your topics because you have made false allegations about the Order. When I say your wrong you seem to throw a fit and begin to post a reply to every single one of my posts. Whether you liek arguments or you just love having the last word is not to me to assume you do, but I would ask you if you would kindly stop this what seems to be a personal vendetta against the Order.

[Desperado †]

Sir Andrew, perhaps when you are doing something you should mention:

Whether this is debatable or the set laws
Say whether this is in the name of the order, in the view of the order or will be enforced by the order (Perhaps you could signify this by raising a Rose before you stand)
Or whether its just from you as a knight individually

[Dance the older]

Actually, I have lost no arguments. The way people want to play this game is, now I know, historically inaccurate, so I will stop arguing for accuracy and just accept that this isn't a historically based RPG like I thought it was...