Cvria Ivlia (I), Dominate of Flavius Claudius Decimus (Rome) - *IBFD*

[Kingzilla]

Senator Romulus walks in horror an regret, regret for letting those barbarians get into Rome.

"This is not right."

Senator Romulus walked around the Cvria three times to examine every bit of it

"They will pay for almost destroying one of the most ancient building of Rome!"

[-Aquila-]

Senator Cornelius Agrippa walks through the streets of Rome remembering how it used to be and picturing in his mind the crowds and noise of the markets.

It has been along time since he had been here, and a long time since he was around other Senators as his trip south had taken him longer than he had expected.

"So it has been rebuilt, hopefully the ideals of the senate havn't been damaged when Rome was sacked, as rebuilding an idea takes longer than a building."

As he talked to himself, He paced around the new Curia.


OOC- Hello again just got back from my holiday

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

Slaves and eunuchs appear one morning with several craftsmen in tow. Orders are given and soon the sounds of repair can be heard as men begin to re-tile the floor and hang tapestries around the recesses of the curia. The stains of age and vandalism are cleaned away. New statues are carted in from the private estates of the emperor and two pedestals are made ready to receive the Consular statues of this the new year outside the Senate House.

To those who pass in the streets and forum outside and ask, they are told that the emperor himself and and the Senators will convene again in the curia and debate matters of supreme importance for the empire and Roma and all the gods . . .

ooc; hope you had a great holiday!

[Jingles]

A messenger arrives outside the Curia on horseback, he dismounts and enters, bearing a message from Senator Vedrix. It reads as follows:

Senators,

I, Aulus Artorius Vedrix, the newest member of this new Senate in this new year, would like to open discussion on a matter of gravest importance to our Empire. No doubt all of you will have noted the Augustus's words,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It is our wish that the Imperial Consistory and the Conscript Fathers shall convene with all haste within the Senate House to publish to the peoples of our empire that Rome is not fallen merely chastised and that such a punishment has only awakened our dormant honour and destiny.

It is our will that once again upon those hallowed floors shall a Roman emperor and his Senate talk openly and freely about affairs of state.

Be it know that I seek urgent advice regarding the affairs in the diocese of Gaul. What has been raised re the abandoning of Hispania to the barbarians is a grave proposal and one close to treason - yet one which was right to be aired. I will not allow such a grave moment in our history to pass by in the light of our study but instead seek to open the shutters, as it were, to the air of a wider space, namely the Senate.

I therefore throw open the pleas of the Magister for the Gauls upon you all and urge you to debate in the fashion you are all famous for what is to be done. Make no mistake - I do this not out of a whim to appear populist but to involve you all in a serious and momentous decision - a decision I reserve for myself but must take into account if this empire is to survive all your wisdoms.

I also urge you to consider that in any other era, if such a proposal had come from another Roman general to his emperor, execution or banishment would have been the only Roman response. Debate well and hard. This man's life and honour is in your hands.

I have spoken.

Flavius Claudius Decimus Augustus
in the Consulship of Titus Aurelius Constantinus Felix and Marcus Appuleius Saturninus

And I would be honoured to begin the discussion on this most solemn matter. Alas, I cannot be here in the Curia with you, as Personal matters keep me away, as I am sure is the case with many of you. The sack of our beloved city has put a large hole in many people's pockets, including my own.

I have composed this letter instead by my own hand so that my opinion may be heard, instead through the mouth of my loyal messenger.

The Magister Equitum, Constantinus Felix has made a risky proposal, not only a risk to be taken by the empire, but his own neck is on the line too, it seems. He has proposed, as you know to abandon Hispania to the Vandals and other barbarians, as it is becoming all too costly to maintain order there. With troops removed from Hispania, they could be put to better use in Gaul in the war against the Usurper. It is a bold strategy indeed, as I am sure is quite obvious, though through no ill will towards the Magister, but through my love of Rome, its people and their well being, I feel inclined to oppose such a motion.

Hispania has been a province of our great empire for an innumerable number of years, and I think it is worthy of note that Rome controlled it before it even controlled Gaul. Abandoning Hispania would not only be a wound of self infliction upon Roman dignity and honour, but we would abandon the people there who, are just as Roman as you or I, to a grisly fate at the hands of the Vandals. I speak here of course from personal experience. I lived, as you may know in Britannia when I was younger, and I witnessed the horrors that befell the province upon Rome's withdrawal. Now, barbarians stalk it's lands at will, and it's people, now cut off from the kind empire that they were once proud to be a part of, flounder under the tide of invaders. In our own arrogance, we neglect to give our conquered subjects knowledge of how to operate all means of good Roman infastructure and defence. As I speak in fact, All monuments of Roman build fall to ruin in my homeland, the people there unable to do anything about it.

This is the fate that shall befall Hispania, should we leave it to the mercy of the Vandals.

The second cause of my disapproval for the Magister's plan comes of his practical reasons for withdrawal. He claims that the troops from Hispania would allow him to win the war against the Usurper. Now I appreciate his lack of resources in his valiant fight against the rebel scum, but this, I believe is not the best course of action. Indeed, if troops from Hispania were to be redeployed anywhere, it would make more sense to have them here, in Italy to countet the Gothic threat that looms over us.

But let us, for a moment assume that such a plan goes ahead. The legions withdraw from Hispania, and are redeployed to Gaul. The war goes ahead, and is won. We regain the territories lost to the usurper, and Gaul is whole once again.

But this raises a problem. With these territories in upheaval upon our conquest, they will need substantial garrisons to ensure there is no further revolt against the state. Furthermore, the Rhine Limes will once again be under our control, and these will, in such troubled times require large garrisons to defend properly. All this is to say nothing of what the Vandals may do with all of Iberia under their control. And so, with our forces stretched across Gaul in garrison and defence, who are we to rely upon to retake Hispania? The legions in Africa guarding the Desert Limes against the Berbers? The battered forces of Italy, who, with our national debt on such a huge scale will have had little or no opportunity to replace numbers lost in the fight against the Goths?

No. I propose instead that we first focus our efforts against the Gothic threat, and then perhaps, our troops from Italy can march North to aid the Magister. I, however am not without sympathy for his predicament, and it is clear that we must find forces from somewhere to aid him, at least temporarily, lest our meagre possesions in Gaul be taken completely from us.

Perhaps, I am wrong. Perhaps the Magister Equitum's plan would work in the fullness of time. After all, was it not Herodotus who once said "Great deeds are usually wrought at great risk"? This is but my view, and I leave the discussion open to you fellow Senators, who, in your governing wisdom are much more experienced than I.

From your Loyal comrade and Senator, Aulus Artorius Vedrix.

ooc: wow....that was a Looooooooong post

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

ooc: I wonder if it wins an award?!

[Winter]

ooc: We've had longer but well done just the same. Now back IC!

[We shall fwee...Wode]

"A letter from Lucius Conelius Italicus, Praetorian Prefect for Gaul." Proclaims Marcvs Atilius Balbus

"Gaul is a large and expansive province, but one filled with wealth and Romans; good and bad alike. Currently it is split between the remnants of the Usurpers and what the Magister have carved out for us from Constantine's "empire". Now the Rebels are in retreat, they have lost most of southern gaul and with their "Augustus" and best armies destroyed they await defeat, but we need every spare tool disposed to the magister to end this war soon. Because it needs to end soon!

"As my colleague has used the hypothesis of men being withdrawn from Hispania lets look at a possible outcome if they remain in Hispania.

"Lets say that we lose Hispania. A very real possiblility with the vandals pushing hard despite the courage that would no doubt be shown by the Comes in these provinces. All their men and money spent on their upkeep is wasted. What then happens if the Magister of Gaul lacks the manpower to take Gaul, or sustain our renewed presense in Gaul. the Magister stops his advance and is left to watch the rebels regroup, establish new armies and take the offensive. If we do not strike him down immediatly we risk such an event as for every city liberated, we lose comitenses who should be at the frontline not performing garrison duty. This lack of manpower could lead to a ceasation of war through our inability to deploy men and would be cataclysmic to say the least.

"We must also ask ourselves, 'What are these men doing in Hispania?' They are battling in vain against a fierce and determined people. Without assistance they are damned to death in the streets of Cordoba and Carthago Nova. Why when they could serve in Gaul, in a winnable war were their service can contribute to the good of the empire? There is no reason of logic behind the idea of remaining in Hispania."

Lucius voice in the senate and close friend, Marcus Atilius Balbus stops reading and sits awaiting response.

[Captain Blackadder]

Tiberius gets up to speak

We cannot hold our empire together it is not possible how enemies are like 1000 stinging insects we turn one way and there is another we swat one and there are thousands more to go. We must take back Gaul for if Gaul falls whilst Hispania stays our Empire will be cut in half. Gaul is the priority if we need to send some troops from Hispania so be it. We may not get another chance to end this way now for if we wait it may be too late and we will lose both provinces to our enemies.

[Snowball]

We cannot fight on all fronts at once, not while our empire and treasury is in this shape, therefore i agree that we must take gaul first! Then we can decide what to do about the other pressured areas.

[-Aquila-]

"I am inclined to agree, in desperate times we have to make sacrifices no matter how great to survive as an empire. In my opinion it is better to be strong in one area than spread out in between two areas. As you know I would like to see Gaul back in Roman hands as I was born up there, but this doesn't affect my opinon that drastically the survival of the Empire and its glory is placed higher than my own personally feelings. As many of you have said before me the strongest place must be our priority and that is Gaul thanks to the efforts of our legions there and therefore I beleive we should focus on liberating Gaul and after that is achieved we can then turn our attention to those barbarians in Hispania."
"That is my personal opinon anyway"

[apple]

Yes we most secure Gaul, but what will happend if the Vandals get Spain, will they stop to conquer our settlements then, no, no they will not,
why should they stop when we gave them Spain without much of a fight, they will see that we are weak,
that we do not longer have the power of the former Empire, they will keep pushing our borders back until we or they face extinction.

This leaves us in a very tricky spot, I myself can not tell you what to do, you will have to think of this yourself and beg to god that he will bless us in these months of importance.

[Jingles]

The doors of the Curia open, and Vedrix enters, he makes an apology for why he is so late, and asks wether his messenger arrived. He then sits down and has the recent proceeedings relayed to him, and a frown of concern spreads across his face.

"I feel I must agree with my fellow senator, The Vandals surely will not stop with Hispania under their control. They will surely either spread North into Gaul, causing us yet more grief as we battle the rebels, or worse yet, they shall go south into Africa, where the undermanned limitanei units there who have thus far valiantly battled the Berber tribesmen, will be completely overrun by the large armies the Vandals field. Whichever path they take it spells doom for much more than the inhabitants of Hispania alone.

Are there not other parts of the empire from which we can draw troops? what of our legions in Illyricium? surely they too are not locked in battle with barbarian invaders?

This, I feel pales to insignificance in light of the Goths roaming Italy itself. It seems absurd to me that while barbarians trample the fields of Italy, we quibble over the movement of troops in foreign theatres. As it has been said, the forces of the userper are broken and running. We have their settlements in the south, and they are in no position to take them back. Let them contend with the barbaric Franks and Alemmanni and Burgundii for all we care, because Senators, we have much more pressing matters to deal with on the home front.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

A messenger enters, carrying a letter.

Fellow senators,

It might be worth considering that at the moment, only the town of Corduba is under siege. The city of Carthago Nova and the town of Palma are under no direct threat. Taxes and trade in these last two cities alone yield over 3500 denarii each season, Corduba adds another 500. Each year, that is 14 000 to 16 000 denarii for the relief of our burdened treasury from Hispania alone. (ooc: assuming we are on 4tpy, otherwise it's 7000 to 8000) I beg you to reconsider the ceding of Hispania.

Kaeso Favonius Buteo
Vicarius of Hispania

[Confederate Jeb]

ooc: assuming we are on 4tpy, otherwise it's 7000 to 8000

OOC: It is 4 turns per year.

[Samuel Adams]

A messenger arrives with a copy of a letter marked with the seal of the Hortensius family. The messenger begs to approach the Dominus, and when waved forward, places the message in the hands of the Dominus's aid.

Imperator,

I must write this letter and it grieves me to do so. My brother, Marcus, was slain by Vandals at our estate south of Corduba while waiting on word of that city's fate.

I have included, in the annual report of our estate, the full account of the battle; however, suffice to say this comes as a devastating blow to the family.

I am traveling to Illyria to be with the rest of my family, and to bear word of his death to his wife and son. This voyage may take many months, but I will be at the Emperor's service as soon as I can leave the family.

May God grant us peace in this time of tribulation.

Humbly and ever in the service of Rome,
Lucilius Hortensius