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Thread: Changes to late units

  1. #1

    Default Changes to late units

    Okay, as many of you already know there are big changes coming your way in KGCM. Gunpowder units fire more frequently thanks to the removal of fire_by_rank. However there was no differences in the damage before of hand gunners, Arquebusiers, and Musketeers. So the first gunpowder units Hand gunners are now actually a bit weaker. Arquebusiers slightly better than Hand gunners, and Musketeers are the ultimate in gunpowder units now. The earliest gunpowder units become recruitable from the first barracks in large cities as soon as gunpowder has been discovered.

    Also there are big changes to pike units which will also mostly start to appear when gunpowder is discovered. Secondary weapons have now been removed so that they will only ever use their pikes. This makes them perform much better. After Pike Militia come the more heavy pikemen. Now that pikemen perform much better I have raised the recruit_priority_offset for these units as well. At the same time as these units appearing spear militia unit pools are reduced. The AI will start to build pike and shot armies and spears will become a thing of the past. As you can see by the file attached below I've had to make some changes so that pikemen appear at the same time. For instance Burgher Pikemen are no longer recruitable at the start. They will only be available at large cities after gunpowder is discovered. The same as similar pikemen for other factions. Sword Brethren for TO are now recruitable from the town guard and not castles. Also I've added some new pikemen units like the Landschneckt Pikemen for HRE. And moved Terico pikemen to the same building level as well. Halberd units will also be introduced at this time. Thanks to these changes and the fact that most settlements start as towns on the map. You should start to see a change in recruitment. And a change in warfare of the late period.

    Dave
    Last edited by Dave Scarface; August 02, 2008 at 10:49 AM.

  2. #2
    AmeriBriton's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Changes to late units

    But shouldn't Musketeers have fire by rank? Assuming the Musket isn't wheel lock, but rather flint. That was the way they fought right? in battle line, firing by rank, or battalion?

    I haven't played in sometime and cannot remember. Been waiting for your mod to play again

    3d Battalion, 172d Infantry (Mountain)
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    Yeah in real life, but fire by rank is what made gunpowder units so useless in this game previously because they took so long to fire.

    Dave

  4. #4
    AmeriBriton's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Changes to late units

    Ah okay, thanks.

    3d Battalion, 172d Infantry (Mountain)
    "Ascend to Victory" Hooah!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    If anyone has viewed the attached file in post one please leave me your comments on my changes. I would like to include these for you all in the new update tommorow. So if you see anything you do not agree with then please let me know today.

    Dave

  6. #6
    Stylix's Avatar MOS Team Member
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    Default Re: Changes to late units

    I agree with you and like the changes. As in most aspects of this game everything is a compromise and this one seems to be sound. Of course the real test will be after completing multiple campaigns and I'm sure it will need some slight tweaking.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    I have one worry dave, if this removes pikeman units until gunpowder is discovered, wont this greatly decrease the effectiveness of Scotland early on in the game, they are a heavy pike faction, im just worried that they could be overpowered early on by an aggresive england (especially if excommunicated) that would lead to a super powered england unbalancing the british Isles. Of course this is only a suspicion as i havnt tested your new fix yet and wont be able to see results for some time.

  8. #8
    Stylix's Avatar MOS Team Member
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    Default Re: Changes to late units

    The Scots can still build pike militia at the start.

    Note that dave said that pike units would 'mostly start to appear' with gunpowder units.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    Ahh right, i simply misunderstood, the update should be great though.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    Wow some pretty neat stuff dave, can't wait for it.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    @Xtopherus,

    As mentioned Scots Pike Militia are available one level earlier than Pike Militia are for other factions But some of Scotland's late pike units have to be held back by the gunpowder event. Because pike units are much more powerful now! And I do not want pikes to dominate the battlefield early on. Instead they will not serve their purpose until the age of gun powder. Defending the lines of gun powder units from the cavalry charge.

    Dave

  12. #12

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    I was actually wondering about Hand Gunners - wouldn't it be better to make them a little more powerful instead? Their range is so measly that they can rarely get off more than a couple of volleys before going melee. They're simply outperformed by crossbows and archers to the point that I never use them as is...
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


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  13. #13

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post
    I was actually wondering about Hand Gunners - wouldn't it be better to make them a little more powerful instead? Their range is so measly that they can rarely get off more than a couple of volleys before going melee. They're simply outperformed by crossbows and archers to the point that I never use them as is...

    100% historically accurate!

    However, there should be some kind of massive price difference. It was far cheaper to equip and train a bunch of peasants with primitive firearms than it was professional long/cross bowmen, so I think it'd be nice if that were somehow reflected.

  14. #14
    Incontinenta Buttox's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Changes to late units

    I like these changes Dave. I'm waiting to download the update.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    The new update has been released LINK

    Dave
    Last edited by Dave Scarface; August 03, 2008 at 11:35 AM.

  16. #16
    Incontinenta Buttox's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Changes to late units

    I have downloaded the new patch with no problems at all. It all looks groovy. I am starting a Norwegian campaign now.

    I am ready to go with the hotseat campaign any time you and the other guys are.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    I have downloaded the new patch with no problems at all. It all looks groovy. I am starting a Norwegian campaign now.

    I am ready to go with the hotseat campaign any time you and the other guys are.
    Great! we will need everyone to be updated to patch 3.4 before we can go! I am looking forward to this challenge very much it should be loads of fun.

    Dave

  18. #18
    Incontinenta Buttox's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Changes to late units

    Having played a few turns as Norway. The changes to upkeep costs of elite units is very noticable. Financially, I went into the red from turn 3 onwards.

    This is very challenging because I am forced to disband a lot of the units I started with. I think these changes are very good. Anything which makes the game more challenging is fine by me.

    I also started a few turns as Sicily, just to get a feel of the faction for our upcoming hotseat game. Much easier economically than Norway. I suppose this is down to a much better geographical position and an army of militia units. I am interested to see how the AI Mongols behave now.

    Liking the changes Dave. I think that once the small bugs have been ironed out. The Mod will be perfect.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    Hey Dave-

    Like what i see so far, although as stated in another thread im unsure what will happen late game with civs that dont have true Pike units. Auto resolve might treat them akwardly.

    anyhow, also noticed that you are changing a bit of the formations around as well, including the removal or great reduction in the Depth of units - as opposed to units being 1.2 meters behind each other, they are now for the most part listed as 0 for infantry- units "mass" together more then they used to.

    As you have made changes to the gunpowder infantry, i thought id toss out a different formation for them for your contemplation.

    formation 0.2, 1.0, 0.5, 15.0, 2, square

    as you see, with this gunpowder units are standing shoulder to shoulder in "normal" mode, with only two rows - taking advantage of fire by rank being removed. This also helps loads in tight quarters, like many city streets - you can get more units along the front row's to help allieviate the line of sight issues most cities have.

    in "loose" formation, they stay relitively close side by side, but with a 15m depth between rows, in outdoor conditions they can and will fire from both ranks simultaneously vs mid/long range enemies for a bit more "shock" value.

    Hand gunners could possibly be improved with a mass increase in the projectile file, (shorter range, heavier bullet, but less velocity - at least it helps break up enemy formations a bit, and looks fun too when you get the rare knock down but not kill) - and maybe a slight increase in secondary weapon attack - however, given the weight of armour etc, perhaps setting movement speed at .85 or so to compensate.

    end $0.02,

    be safe and all that rot.. failing that, take as many of em with you as you can.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Changes to late units

    Thanks for these suggestions, I will be sure to test this out before making another patch.

    Dave

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