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Thread: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

  1. #1
    Osceola's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    ... Disgustingly ambitious I know.

    Admittedly I don't know much of how that war played out, what I do know is that it would be an opportunity to portray a fascinating conflict, with fascinating characters, some very interesting and even legendary units, and of course the first mod of it's kind to take place within our lifetimes.

    The Soviet-Afghan War of 1979-1989.

    The factions? Perfect, rich with history, much blood on both hands, legends.



    The Union of Soviet Socialist State Republics - Widely considered to be the most ruthless, most inhuman, .. and easily most badass state to have ever existed since the first laws of Sumeria were inscribed on clay tablets.

    You will lead the glorious 40th Army Division.. Za Rodinu comrades! Show those Afghans the heel of your jackboot! Crush! the Crescent with the Hammer and Sickle! Do not fail your motherland comrades, you are Soviets. You are invincible.

    "40th Army Division"

    - Faction Leader:

    Sergei Leonidovich Sokolov (Russian: Сергей Леонидович Соколов) (born 1 July [O.S. 18 June] 1911 in Eupatoria) was Commander of the Leningrad Military District from 1965 to 1984, 1st Deputy Defense Minister from 1967 to 1984. Minister of Defence of Soviet Union from December 22, 1984 to May 30, 1987 (he was dismissed by Mikhail Gorbachev as a result of the Mathias Rust affair).

    Sergei Sokolov was also in charge of Soviet ground forces during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. He personally led the main Soviet incursion of ground forces on the 27th of December, 1980. His actions and command strategies during the war made him one of the Soviet Union's most respected Marshals.

    He was appointed Marshal of the Soviet Union in 1978. On April 28, 1980 he was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union and in July 2001 he became an " Honorary Citizen of Crimea". Since 1992 Sokolov has been an advisor to the Defence Minister of Russia. Sokolov is currently the oldest living Soviet Marshal.


    - Faction Heir:

    Boris Vsevolodovich Gromov (Russian: Бори́с Все́володович Гро́мов), (born November 7, 1943 in Saratov, Russia), prominent military and political figure, Colonel-General.

    He graduated from a Suvorov military cadet school, the Leningrad Military Commanders School and later from the Frunze Military Academy in Moscow, as well as the General Staff Academy.

    During the Soviet war in Afghanistan, Gromov did three tours of duty (1980-1982, 1985-1986, 1987-1989), and was best known for the two years as the last Commander of the 40th Army in Afghanistan. Gromov was the last Soviet soldier to leave Afghanistan, crossing on foot the Friendship Bridge spanning the Amu-Daria river on February 15, 1989, the day the Soviet pullout from Afghanistan was completed. He received the highest military award the golden star of the Hero of the Soviet Union after a large-scale operation to lift the siege of the city Khost in eastern Afghanistan.




    Democratic Republic of Afghanistan - Don't let the name fool you, this wildly unpopular puppet state set up by the Soviet Union in 1978, is anything but Democratic. May or may not be a playable faction, their the Soviet Union's es, basically.

    - Faction Leader:

    Babrak Karmal (January 6, 1929 - December 3, 1996) was the third President of Afghanistan (1979 - 1986) during the period of the communist Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. He is the best known of the Marxist leadership.

    Having been restored to power with Soviet support, he was unable to consolidate his power and, in 1986, he was replaced by Dr. Mohammad Najibullah. He left Afghanistan for Moscow, but returned to Kabul in 1989. He died in Moscow.


    Faction Heir:

    Mohammed Najibullah. In November 1986, Najibullah was elected president and a new constitution was adopted. Some of the innovations incorporated into the constitution were a multi-party political system, freedom of expression, and an Islamic legal system presided over by an independent judiciary.

    However, all of these measures were largely outweighed by the broad powers of the president, who commanded a military and police apparatus under the control of the Homeland Party (Hizb-i Watan, as the PDPA became known in 1988). In September he set up the National Compromise Commission to contact counter-revolutionaries "in order to complete the Saur Revolution in its new phase." Allegedly some 40,000 rebels were contacted.

    In this way, Najibullah had stabilized his political position enough to begin matching Moscow's moves toward withdrawal. On July 20, 1987, the withdrawal of Soviet troops from the country was announced.

    It was also during his Administration that the peak of the fighting came in 1985-86. The Soviet forces launched their largest and most effective assaults on the Mujahedeen supply lines adjacent to Pakistan. Major campaigns had also forced the mujahedeen back to defensive positions near Herat and Kandahar.

    Najibullah made an expanded reconciliation offer to the resistance in July 1987, including twenty seats in State (formerly Revolutionary) Council, twelve ministries and a possible prime ministership and Afghanistan's status as an Islamic non-aligned state. Military, police, and security powers were not mentioned, and the offer still fell far short of what even the moderate mujahedeen parties would accept.

    Najibullah then reorganized his government to face the mujahedeen alone. A new constitution took effect in November, 1987. The name of the country was reverted to the Republic of Afghanistan, the State Council was replaced by a National Assembly for which "progressive parties" could freely compete. Mir Hussein Sharq, a non-party politician, was named Prime Minister.

    On June 7, 1988, President Najibullah addressed the UN General Assembly for peace solution of crisis in Afghanistan.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    Al-Mujahideen

    The Mujahideen, write up will come later: This, before the years of Ahmed Shah Massoud's Northern Alliance, is when they were fractured, and fought each other as much as the Soviets. Some were great, noble warriors, like the modern day Saladin, Ahmed Shah Massoud. Others were murderous gangsters, like the drug lord and arms dealer, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who to this day is one of the most wanted terrorists in the world.

    To reflect their fractured nature, they will be split into several factions..

    One led by, Ahmed Shah Massoud.



    http://www.badassoftheweek.com/massoud.html

    One led by, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulbuddin_Hekmatyar


    One led by, Abdul Haq.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_H...ghan_leader%29





    MAK
    - or Makhtab-Al-Khidamat-Al-Mujahidin-Al-Arab. The main group of foreign Afghan-Arab fighters, who have left their homes to go on Jihad against the Godless Soviets. History will later know them as Al-Qaeda. Possibly the most evil motherers in military history. Their most influential leader was their cult-like leader "Sheikh" Osama Bin Laden, coming from a multi-billionaire family and a strong believer in the fanatical Wahabbi Islam of his native Saudi Arabia.

    Faction Leader: Sheikh Osama Bin Laden:


    NOTE: I have chosen this faction to represent the Arab fighters in this war who did not come under command of Afghans. They would later become a powerful force in more recent Afghan military history, such as the current war still being fought against them. This will be similar to a "Mongol" type faction, that is they will emerge, not have towns other then their bases/camps (their first camp was called Al Qaeda, where they got their name later on in history) they won't be fighting to conquer Afghanistan, and will not fight against other Mujahideen. Their rosters will be slightly different, this faction will sort of be there to serve the impatient player in all of us. If you wanna just fight as opposed to building an empire and focusing on alliances etc, .. uh join Al-Qaeda. Rofl.

    I shouldn't have to say this, but obviously I'm no supporter of the current Al-Qaeda or Bin Laden. They do however have their place in history. Besides the Soviets were prolly worse then them. Disguising land mines as children's toys. Tsk tsk, naughty commies.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Now that we have set the stage, I'm wondering how this mod will work?
    Well admittedly.. so am I. However ETW has not been released yet, and with such an ambitious project, I figured it would be good to see if I could get some interest going for this idea, and get all the little bits done before setting about skinning, moddelling and scripting.

    You see considering that most of us were alive for this war, and all of us were alive for the recent Afghan War, the research will be fairly easy , and any factions research could be completely in afternoon.

    Plenty of photographs and videos exist from this war, so skinning, modelling etc. shouldn't be a problem at all.

    Now, we don't know how ETW's engine will work. However it should be quite possible to do tanks, and vehicles. If there is a dismount feature, then Armoured Personnel Carriers and such will be possible.

    As for aerial combat, Soviet Attack Helicopters are the only thing that I consider a necessity or at least, a damn shame not to include them, for this mod that could prove difficult. However since they would not be actually fighting other helicopters or planes, it should be somewhat do-able. Perhaps have the helicopter attached to the ground by an invisible modelled but not textured "wire."

    The main purpose of the game will be the ground fighting, as the war itself is famous for. From here virtually every weapon is possible, from light machine guns, to heavy machine guns, from snipers to mortars, and of course AK-47's. Think of how damn fun Horse Archers with AK-47's would be. It sounds ambitious and it is, but mostly because it would be the first mod of it's kind to portray modern warfare and to concentrate solely on warfare. The first version could feature no helicopters, and simply be tanks, RPG's AK's, snipers, mortar teams, artillery pieces, BADASS custom maps, light and heavy machine guns. All of that is perfectly doable, possibly so even with Medieval II engine (though it makes more sense to wait til ETW) and would be plenty fun.

    So Inshallah, oh those who struggle?

    Or Za Rodinu, comrades?
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  2. #2
    Orko's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    I don't think such a mod will be a great success.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius
    Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

  3. #3
    Osceola's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Then don't post..

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    Slanted's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Man that would be awesome. However I'm not sure it the Empire engine will be able to support the tanks and mixed infantry units they had during it. I wish you the best of luck with this as I have always wanted to drown the world in a sea of Soviets.

  5. #5
    Osceola's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Well mixed infantry could be a problem, but then again this mod doesn't have to be 100 percent accurate to be fun you know? This is a TW version of the Soviet-Afghan War.

    Now as for tanks, don't see why not. It would basically be a fast moving cannon, that's it.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Zindabad Afghanistan! Odd name for Arab afghans though, dunno if it's correct or whatever, I'd have gone with just Qitaluun al-Qaida or something similar.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Making a mod about the soviet union is a brilliant idea.
    Reap the promised end to the struggle. Reap every point on our linear path.
    Reap the smiles in time we borrow, every harvest relies on the last.
    Reap the promising song of the sparrow, that they learned from the birth of sea.
    Silenced by the threnody of the crows. Reap the fallen fruit of the dogwood tree.
    But I witnessed in all this silence one soul's definition of beauty. and a backlit smile so temporary.
    A facade so rich with evil history. Cast in direct opposition set to overwhelm this moment to shine and sleep.
    came out on top of what was borrowed, and found all that beauty to be still...

  8. #8
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Not for me, thanks any way..

    Good luck.

  9. #9
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    This would be awesome(considering I also know a former ambassador who was there round about this period) but how would you represent helicopter gunships like the Hind-D? since they were used for patrols around the country :hmmm:
    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Pious musulmen can destroy the Kuffaar air power!

  11. #11
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    lol with FIM-92 Stinger Missiles provided by the Great Satan
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  12. #12
    Osceola's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaghatai Khan View Post
    This would be awesome(considering I also know a former ambassador who was there round about this period) but how would you represent helicopter gunships like the Hind-D? since they were used for patrols around the country :hmmm:
    I have a few ideas, I mentioned one at the end of the OP..

    Have it as a "floating" ship if you will. The model could be connected to the ground via a thin untextured wire/stick/something.

    Sound clips for the helicopter blades and (insert double-digit number here)mm cannons as well as rockets would be added. Animations for the cannons firing and their projectiles as well as the rockets then added. Voila, effectively, you have Hind's.

    Troop transport could be difficult, but remember ETW will have ships, and I'm sure it might be possible to get sailors to "abandon ship" if we add the same feature to paratroopers, it becomes possible.

    Gotta think outside the box people!
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  13. #13
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    oh ok

    well I wouldn't miss a chance to play as Ahmad Shah Massoud

    I think the soundtrack for the Mujahideen ought to be Nasheeds .

    Spammy has loads and you can use them since Allah doesn't believe in copyright .
    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    this can get quite interesting. I will keep an eye for this mod.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

  15. #15
    Osceola's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Oh I love nasheed's, have plenty thanks to Spammy.

    Yep I already have the Soundtrack completely done in my head. Plenty of 'sheeds, and PLENTY of Red Army Choir songs. This will be epic.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Being pessimistic, I worry about the lack of ability to represent the natures of Modern Warfare in Empire Total War's mechanics. We don't know how cover will work, if automatic weapons will really manage itself, animations and so forth.

    What I would recommend would be more fantasy, but be perhaps more feasible. I'd depict a historical "What if" to Afghanistan in the 1920s-1940s, where the Great Game between Great Britain and the Russians intensified following the Bolshevik Revolution. The Soviets of a 1920s-1930s technology would be invading through the North, the British and Colonial Subjects through the south, and perhaps the Iranians choosing to try and re-assert control over regions in their sphere of influence (herat). Then you could have a collection of Afghan Tribes.

    This way, while you still have the nature of the issue of air vehicles, land vehicles, and automatic weaponry, it's less evident as warfare in WW1 particularly in the Near East still had qualities of the 19th century (The lingering importance of the horse, most troops using bolt action rifles still), and would avoid the gaping absence of Soviet Armor and Air which made for a major distinction between them and the Afghans.
    Last edited by Ahiga; August 01, 2008 at 09:10 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    The Russians, as well the the British, did try to take over Afghanistan in the nineteenth century. They both ultimately failed but a mod on that could better make use of Empire's resources.

    About this mod, you CAN pull it off in the end provided you sacrifice an arm and a leg for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Spamurai View Post
    Zindabad Afghanistan! Odd name for Arab afghans though, dunno if it's correct or whatever, I'd have gone with just Qitaluun al-Qaida or something similar.
    While their actions are not liked by anyone now (excluding 9/11, because they didn't do it), the Arab fighters consisted of up to 50,000 fighters at any given time while the Pakistani immigration authorities said that around 200,000 Arab Mujahideen came to Pakistan Fisabilillah.

    After the Soviets withdrew and Afghan in-fighting began, bin Laden retired to Sudan where he engaged in various civilian projects. When Saddam invaded Kuwait, he volunteered to be part of a pan-Arab army against the dictator but the Saudis rejected the idea because America wanted bases in the Middle-East for its long-term objectives. It's also interesting to note here that it wasn't in the interest of the US or Israel to see a pan-Arab army fighting for a single case. In fact, even the Saudis would've dreaded the idea.

    Anyway, America's insistence to stay in Saudi Arabia on the behalf of its puppet leaders was the initial and core cause of Al-Qaeda terrorism.
    Death be not proud, though some have called thee
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  18. #18
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    If this mod doesnt get support, i'm gonna start attaching pollonium to my posts.




  19. #19

    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sextus Loverlord View Post
    The Russians, as well the the British, did try to take over Afghanistan in the nineteenth century. They both ultimately failed but a mod on that could better make use of Empire's resources.

    About this mod, you CAN pull it off in the end provided you sacrifice an arm and a leg for it.



    While their actions are not liked by anyone now (excluding 9/11, because they didn't do it), the Arab fighters consisted of up to 50,000 fighters at any given time while the Pakistani immigration authorities said that around 200,000 Arab Mujahideen came to Pakistan Fisabilillah.

    After the Soviets withdrew and Afghan in-fighting began, bin Laden retired to Sudan where he engaged in various civilian projects. When Saddam invaded Kuwait, he volunteered to be part of a pan-Arab army against the dictator but the Saudis rejected the idea because America wanted bases in the Middle-East for its long-term objectives. It's also interesting to note here that it wasn't in the interest of the US or Israel to see a pan-Arab army fighting for a single case. In fact, even the Saudis would've dreaded the idea.

    Anyway, America's insistence to stay in Saudi Arabia on the behalf of its puppet leaders was the initial and core cause of Al-Qaeda terrorism.
    Bin Laden built a camp for the Arab Mujahideen called simply "The Base", it's where the name of the organisation came from in later years. Most Arabs fought with other groups of Mujahideen from the Pakistani factions. But some joined bin Laden in his camp. The faction represents the independent Arab-Afghans under bin Ladens influence as opposed to all the Arab-Afghans.


    We should script in an event to show this rather gory pic when Najibullah is killed:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    As for Nasheeds, I think they should be mainly for the Arabs, afghans should get other music. I need someone who knows Arabic fluently the check them through though. It's be odd if they talk about recent events/Israel. Got 50, so there should be usable stuff in them. Qad Azamnaa and Faqa Aat are actual AQ ones, so they should probably be included.

  20. #20
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    If this mod doesnt get support, i'm gonna start attaching pollonium to my posts.
    Do you know Andrei Lugovoi by any chance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Spamurai View Post
    As for Nasheeds, I think they should be mainly for the Arabs, afghans should get other music. I need someone who knows Arabic fluently the check them through though. It's be odd if they talk about recent events/Israel. Got 50, so there should be usable stuff in them. Qad Azamnaa and Faqa Aat are actual AQ ones, so they should probably be included.
    I hope Vindicare realises that this mod would probably serve as a recruitment tool for the current jihad in Afghanistan .
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