Page 1 of 13 1234567891011 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 258

Thread: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

  1. #1
    LegionnaireX's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,467

    Default Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    I know this is a topic of hot debate, so if there is another thread on this we can move the discussion there.

    Some Americans claim that the US saved Europe, especially Britain, when the US entered into WWII. British people say this isn't true, but I have yet to see anything of substance as to why it isn't true. I'm no expert in WWII, but lets look at a few simple facts:

    1. Britain did resist Nazi forces during Operation Sea Lion, but in the aftermath Britain was in no position to single handedly take back Western Europe from the Third Reich. If the US had stayed out of the conflict, Hitler could have regrouped and been able to conquer the UK.

    2. Operation Overlord, the most important amphibious landing in the history of warfare would not be possible without the help of the United States. Without the industrial powerhouse that was the United States, the allies would not have had sufficient manpower and vehicles to mount a successful invasion.

    3. After the closing of the European Theater it became evident that the Nazi's were hard at work on the atomic bomb and only months behind the Manhattan Project. If the United States had not entered the war when it did, Hitler could have developed the A-bomb first, which would have effectively made him the victor.

    4. Some Brits point out that they stood alone against Nazi Germany before the US got involved. While this is true, Great Britain relied on supplies being sent from the United States as part of Roosevelt's lend-lease plan. Would you have been able to put up such a fight without American aid?

    Now, not to say that Britain was helpless. Britain performed excellently and stood as a strong adversary to Hitler. But face it, if the US were to remain in isolation, Hitler would have won the war.
    Last edited by LegionnaireX; July 31, 2008 at 08:31 PM.

  2. #2
    kev-o's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    3,808

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    Two words: Marshall Plan.

    Thread over.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    Nice little study there LegionnaireX.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    Quote Originally Posted by kev-o View Post
    Two words: Marshall Plan.

    Thread over.
    What's that got to do with WW2?
    'When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything. '

    -Emile Cammaerts' book The Laughing Prophets (1937)

    Under the patronage of Nihil. So there.

  5. #5
    Fight!'s Avatar Question Everything.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    7,820

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    U.S. without a doubt saved Britain from a humbling defeat though honestly i think U.S. should have waited for Britain to get captured then take it considering the ingratitude...
    Roll over the names for quotes

    Aristotle || Buddha || Musashi


    Under the proud patronage of Saint Nicholas
    Proud patron of ★Bandiera Rossa☭

  6. #6
    jermagon's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cairo,Egypt
    Posts
    2,189

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    so what's the point of this thread??


    George Galloway ''You don't give a damn !!!!!!!!''







  7. #7

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    American Ego Enhancing Thread: AEET
    Under the patronage of Noble Savage

    Post Tenebras Lux
    European liberal, free trade and civil liberties FTW.
    Attractive, by everyones standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Good post Amagi +rep

  8. #8
    Fight!'s Avatar Question Everything.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    7,820

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    British are just as egotistic as Americans
    Roll over the names for quotes

    Aristotle || Buddha || Musashi


    Under the proud patronage of Saint Nicholas
    Proud patron of ★Bandiera Rossa☭

  9. #9
    shadepanther's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,407

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    Quote Originally Posted by LegionnaireX View Post
    1. Britain did resist Nazi forces during Operation Sea Lion, but it the aftermath Britain was in no position to single handedly take back Western Europe from the Third Reich. If the US had stayed out of the conflict, Hitler could have regrouped and been able to conquer the UK.
    While Britain couldn't conquer Europe back Germany couldn't conquer Britain. It was a stalemate. The Royal Navy prevented an amphibious landing in Britain.



    "I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage, Mythbusters

  10. #10
    kev-o's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    3,808

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    What's that got to do with WW2?
    Probably the fact that Brittain suffered an economic crisis after the war and had not the US contibuted to help rebuilt its infrastructure, then the Russians could have very well stepped in and had offered their assistance.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoisbest View Post
    U.S. without a doubt saved Britain from a humbling defeat though honestly i think U.S. should have waited for Britain to get captured then take it considering the ingratitude...
    Firstly, how did America save us during the battle of britain and then after Hitler called off any invasion plans? Secondly, how would they 'take it' if it were in Nazi hands? A Normandy-style landing of thousands of miles?
    'When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything. '

    -Emile Cammaerts' book The Laughing Prophets (1937)

    Under the patronage of Nihil. So there.

  12. #12
    Fight!'s Avatar Question Everything.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    7,820

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Firstly, how did America save us during the battle of britain and then after Hitler called off any invasion plans? Secondly, how would they 'take it' if it were in Nazi hands? A Normandy-style landing of thousands of miles?
    if U.S. hasn't aided britain most of the populace wouldv'e starved to death even with all the soup kitchens. Secondly it isn't too hard to retake something from a country which has spent most of it's power on powerful countres like Britain and Russia. yes i said britain was powerful but not enough so to stop Germany.
    Roll over the names for quotes

    Aristotle || Buddha || Musashi


    Under the proud patronage of Saint Nicholas
    Proud patron of ★Bandiera Rossa☭

  13. #13
    Jaguar Paw's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    1,303

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    There is absolutely no way on god's green earth that the German's ever would have succeeded in winning ww2. Firstly America did not choose to enter the war and save the UK, they were dragged in by the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Now if your hypothesis includes Japan never entering the war, and therefore the U.S. never entering the war, I would then say also no win for the Germans. The U.K./Commonwealth included several large nations other than the U.K., these being Canada, Australia, India, and South Africa. When you throw in the idiotic German attack on the Soviet Union after the U.K. defeated them in the Battle of Britain, the chances of Germany winning went out the window.
    Prior to U.S. land forces getting to the European theater of Operations in Operation Torch in November of 1942, the Commonwealth, and Soviet forces alone had already inflicted devastating damage to the German military: Soviet winter offensive 41-42, Battle of Stalingrad (still in progress at this point, but outcome not in question), Battle of el Alamein, Battle of Britain, Royal Navy had pretty much neutralized the German surface fleet, the Italian surface fleet, and the remainder of the French fleet that had refused to join the British, the Commonwealth land forces had also early on taken Ethiopia from the Italians, and soundly defeated them in the Western desert, and the RAF by late 1942 was launching large scale bombing raids into the heart of Germany.
    If you then continue on with our scenario of no Japan or U.S. in ww2, you have to then consider the addition of most of the U.K. far east forces being able to be brought to the European theater, as well as many Commonwealth forces from this area, I don't think it is very plausible for a total German victory in Europe.

    Oh yes, one more thing, no U.S. would have meant that Churchill would have been able to carry out his plan of an invasion in the Balkans or Greece, this would have had the effect of adding the partisan forces from this region directly into an allied army, and possibly causing a general rising of the populace in these regions which would have caused great troubles to the Germans, who were already having to keep many divisions in this area to counter the continuous offensives by the partisan forces there. This course of action doubtless would have helped the Soviet forces greatly.
    Last edited by Jaguar Paw; July 31, 2008 at 07:38 PM. Reason: add text
    Member: The Frontier. Researcher, Skinner, and Modeler.












    Member: The Frontier Researcher

  14. #14
    LegionnaireX's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,467

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    While Britain couldn't conquer Europe back Germany couldn't conquer Britain. It was a stalemate. The Royal Navy prevented an amphibious landing in Britain.
    True. But

    a) Britain could not last indefinitely. The US lend-lease plan provided the British military with ammunition and supplies to fight back against Nazi raids.

    b) Once again, while the US might not have saved Britain outright, it provided much needed relief for the British. Had the US remained neutral throughout the war, Britain surely would have faltered. It was a matter of time.

    The U.K./Commonwealth included several large nations other than the U.K., these being Canada, Australia, India, and South Africa.
    These nations had nowhere near the industrial capacity of the United States. And figuring Japan into the equation this time, Australia would have fallen to the Japanese if it hadn't been for the US.

    Probably the fact that Brittain suffered an economic crisis after the war and had not the US contibuted to help rebuilt its infrastructure, then the Russians could have very well stepped in and had offered their assistance.
    So are you suggesting that Britain would have become Communist?
    Last edited by LegionnaireX; July 31, 2008 at 07:32 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoisbest View Post
    if U.S. hasn't aided britain most of the populace wouldv'e starved to death even with all the soup kitchens. Secondly it isn't too hard to retake something from a country which has spent most of it's power on powerful countres like Britain and Russia. yes i said britain was powerful but not enough so to stop Germany.

    Utter, utter rubbish. The US army was inexperianced and tiny at the start of WW2, how exactly would they have hoped to beat even the smallest German garrison? Britain could not have stopped germany on it's own that much is certain, but it was hitler's decision to turn east, not US intervention that was the critical factor.
    'When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything. '

    -Emile Cammaerts' book The Laughing Prophets (1937)

    Under the patronage of Nihil. So there.

  16. #16
    kev-o's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    3,808

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    There is absolutely no way on god's green earth that the German's ever would have succeeded in winning ww2
    I disagree. Had the Germans not invaded Russia and instead focused their efforts on Africa and the Middle East they would have secured massive amounts of oil. After that, the Axis would have enough oil to continue their plans. Japan wouldn't need American oil anymore since they are getting it from Germany, ergo no Pearl Harbor. Germany and Japan could then launch a campaign in the spring to invade Russia in a three-prong attack, Germany leading troops from across Europe and the Middle East while Japan attacks Russia's rear. Gaining Russia would be a monumential victory as it has vast amounts of resources to further the war effort for the Axis. Then Germany can turn its sights on to Britian since it now has near unlimited resources to launch an invasion of Britain.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    Quote Originally Posted by LegionnaireX View Post
    Britain could not last indefinitely. The US lend-lease plan provided the British military with ammunition and supplies to fight back against Nazi raids
    .

    Nothing was 'given'. It all had to be paid for eventualy and it was. There are those who say it was just a way to squeeze more money out of the UK. Britain had to pay in cash for everything she got at first. When it ran out of gold then in order to keep the US industry going they had to find a way to keep the cash rolling in- LL was born! Then there are the bases the US got as well.
    There are also those who would say the US has a habit of sitting around watching the fight before jumping in when the enemy is weakened.........not that I would be one of those people!

  18. #18
    gambit's Avatar Gorak
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    8,772

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    Quote Originally Posted by humble View Post
    .

    Nothing was 'given'. It all had to be paid for eventualy and it was. There are those who say it was just a way to squeeze more money out of the UK. Britain had to pay in cash for everything she got at first. When it ran out of gold then in order to keep the US industry going they had to find a way to keep the cash rolling in- LL was born! Then there are the bases the US got as well.
    He never said anything about giving and theres nothing wrong with that. Britain highly needed ammunition and supplies, not money. Sure it wasn't the nicest thing we could have possibly done but anyone wanting a return on their aide to another is completely justifiable.

    There are also those who would say the US has a habit of sitting around watching the fight before jumping in when the enemy is weakened.........not that I would be one of those people!
    :hmmm: We were brought in by Japanese attack. Not too mention, how was the enemy weakened? Sure the Germans were busy on another bloody front but the Pacific theater had more bloodshed than any other. The Japanese dug their heels in the Pacific and dared us to come. And we did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter S. Thompson
    You better take care of me, Lord. If you dont.. you're gonna have me on your hands

  19. #19
    Ex Tenebris Lux's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    1,433

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    why do people make threads like this... WHY!?
    I've been here the whole time.

  20. #20
    LegionnaireX's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,467

    Default Re: Did America Save Britain's Ass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Tenebris Lux View Post
    why do people make threads like this... WHY!?
    Well personally I made this thread to get to the bottom of the discussion. As I stated in the OP, I've seen people make claims on either side of the topic and neve have I seen any real evidence to support either side. Until now.

Page 1 of 13 1234567891011 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •