Historical accuracy

[LionQ]

Would it be possible to script in say, two or three stacks of Templars led by Baldwin or Guy(I can't remember who led the first crusade but Wikipedia says it was Godefroy de Bouillon and Sigurd of Norway. Is that correct?) have them take Antioch and Jerusalem and then have the Kingdom of Jerusalem as an emerging faction? :hmmm:

"The Princes' Crusade, also known as the Barons' Crusade, set out later in 1096 in a more orderly manner, led by various nobles with bands of knights from different regions of Europe. The four most significant of these were Raymond IV of Toulouse, who represented the knights of Provence, accompanied by the papal legate Adhemar of Le Puy; Bohemond of Taranto, representing the Normans of southern Italy with his nephew Tancred; The Lorrainers under the brothers Godfrey of Bouillon, Eustace and Baldwin of Boulogne; and the Northern French led by Count Robert II of Flanders, Robert of Normandy (older brother of King William II of England), Stephen, Count of Blois, and Hugh of Vermandois the younger brother of King Philip I of France, who bore the papal banner.[12][page # needed] King Philip himself was forbidden from participating in the campaign as he had been excommunicated. The entire crusader army consisted of about 30,000-35,000 crusaders, including 5,000 cavalry.[13] Raymond IV of Toulouse had the largest contingent of about 8,500 infantry and 1,200 cavalry.[14]" ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_C...ces.27_Crusade

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Hey guys Early era should be more focused on crusade. So we will need to remove Templars as faction and add units to special buildings buildable only in Jerusalem area( Acre Edessa Kerak). We should remove all late units . This will enable one new (muslim) faction.After that we should have scripted missions - like take Jerusalem or you will be excomunicated and crusade will be called upon you. So in this case you will have templars as your army at disposal. Building port will add genoisan and pisans sailors etc. You will be forced to fight "holly war".
When we remove late era units we will be abble to recruit more medieval unis (no boring opening moves).

Another campaign is late era. From late era all erly units should be removed and some factions (Aragorn, Castille -Spain,Norway and Denmark -Kalmar Union, all pagans,HRE - Habsburgs,Bohemia,Swiss,Burgundy ,Sicily etc). Map should be more Eurocentric (America should be also included). And in this time Turks should be super power to fight against, 30y war, 100y war (this should be starting date). No crusades in this time or we should implement new religion (Protestants instead pagans) and have bloody religious war in europe. Pope should residend in Avignon.

Early era Should be crusade era -strongly focused on medieval units and crusade (no late era units)
Late era should be focused on religous war in Europe + Turks + 100y war and conquering America.(no early era units)

[Fluttershy]

Hey guys Early era should be more focused on crusade. So we will need to remove Templars as faction and add units to special buildings buildable only in Jerusalem area( Acre Edessa Kerak). We should remove all late units . This will enable one new (muslim) faction.After that we should have scripted missions - like take Jerusalem or you will be excomunicated and crusade will be called upon you. So in this case you will have templars as your army at disposal. Building port will add genoisan and pisans sailors etc. You will be forced to fight "holly war".
When we remove late era units we will be abble to recruit more medieval unis (no boring opening moves).

Another campaign is late era. From late era all erly units should be removed and some factions (Aragorn, Castille -Spain,Norway and Denmark -Kalmar Union, all pagans,HRE - Habsburgs,Bohemia,Swiss,Burgundy ,Sicily etc). Map should be more Eurocentric (America should be also included). And in this time Turks should be super power to fight against, 30y war, 100y war (this should be starting date). No crusades in this time or we should implement new religion (Protestants instead pagans) and have bloody religious war in europe. Pope should residend in Avignon.

Early era Should be crusade era -strongly focused on medieval units and crusade (no late era units)
Late era should be focused on religous war in Europe + Turks + 100y war and conquering America.(no early era units)

lol, sadly i dont think the whole mods gonna be changed for your special preferences, also Ive never had the templars "mess up" the middle east
If anything they are the only thing that stops the fatamids from becoming a monster super power every game

[Barser]

I agree with zapp brannigan (I mean Vexille).
I like the jerusalem emerges script along with the templers. They really give the muslim factions a though time together.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

lol, sadly i dont think the whole mods gonna be changed for your special preferences, also Ive never had the templars "mess up" the middle east
If anything they are the only thing that stops the fatamids from becoming a monster super power every game

It was just idea. What super power? They have most rebellious area. One or two crusades and they are almost gone (they have big cities and lots of penalty for distance from capital). I m talking about early era. When templars start to pop up priests there is great chance that imams will became heretics. This big emipres start to have lots of heretic rebellions. Finally when Golden Horde emerges they just wipe out everything (including Templars). So instead that we have one powerfull islamic blok we have rebellious states. In most cases Turks are destroyed . When you disable templars this is not the case. Only if they survive first 150 turns there is chance that you will fight some islamic factions (in most cases only Golden Horde). This is noticable everywhere (Europe) but with a lot christian factions this stops after 50 turns. One heretic can rebell huge area if you do not stop it. With Templars priest on other side byzant on second side marauding across map you have only wast area of rebellion. If Templars start on Ciprus (with fleet) there be smaller chance of such vast rebellions.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

I agree with zapp brannigan (I mean Vexille).
I like the jerusalem emerges script along with the templers. They really give the muslim factions a though time together.

Not enough factions slots. Not enough room in EDU for KoJ units together with Templars.

[Barser]

Not enough factions slots. Not enough room in EDU for KoJ units together with Templars.

Yeah that would be best in a future update. That would free up a faction slot. Just a kingdom of jerusalem would be fine. Maybe with some crusading reinforcement every now and then.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Yeah that would be best in a future update. That would free up a faction slot. Just a kingdom of jerusalem would be fine. Maybe with some crusading reinforcement every now and then.

There is a option to remove all balistas with two tipes This will free up many unit slots but i think that AoR uses same principe for new units (pavise handgunner my favorite)

[JaM]

probably better place for this post:


more i play the game , more i know that something is wrong with SS. We have too many factions, some of them are small, but have more units than big ones (Ireland, Aragon, Templars...) Their units provide them advantage against other factions, that are more Late Era biased.
Another problem is map. Dont know how you feel about it, but i never had an army marching to the Hindukush. Truth is, that After discovering America, Middle East went down a lot - West lost its interest in that part of the world completly, which had as a result huge decline of Moslim factions. Probably the only relativly advanced faction was Otoman Empire. And personally I would rather see them attacking south Europe, than play their own wars with other nameless actions (kwazermians? who are they?) whole game and never even try to atack europe. If somebody would cut 25% of map no big deal will happen and it will greatly improove gameplay even for Eastern factions (less predators = earlier confrontation with west.)

Removing at lest 3 unimportant factions we could have much more units for important ones, and especially balance them more for every ERA, so game will be more rich in any ERA.

Right now it is too many and too little...

[Haranin]

Stongly disagree - The East is very important if you are playing as Venice, Silicy, Byzantium, Hungry or the the Russian factions.

Making it more open like SS, makes it more historical, and harder. In the regular game, conquer armenia and Syria, and you have a map edge that you don't need to garrison heavily. In SS 6.1; you have open frontier that sucks up an army or two... more if at war.

The Persians were always a threat to byzantium, if you manage to polish off the Turks, having a strong enemy on the Eastern border makes it more fun.

[JaM]

I'm not telling that East is unimportant. I Say that because of lots of small factions, they fight each other and are no threat to the europe as they were...

[spartan117]

I'm not telling that East is unimportant. I Say that because of lots of small factions, they fight each other and are no threat to the europe as they were...

I didnt realize they are small factions. They seem to be big factions that are meant to be super powerish. Those few muslim factions are meant to represent the many factions that did exist.

The east and the factions in the east bring another theater entirely. Fighting that does not actually have to happen in Europe.

If anything some of the smaller factions in the west should be removed then say the Persians. I.E. Ireland...

But even if all the current factions remain a better balancing can be done to attempt to simulate historical events. I.E. not having Genoa or Sicily become such a huge power, or having France be destroyed. Things like that can be change by altering money scripts, etc..

The newer factions that were included into stainless steel did come with some elite units. Like Kiev vs Novgorod's roster or Aragon vs Spain's roster among the few. :hmmm:

I am not including Norway or Ireland as they were imported directly from Kingdoms.

[Chappy4756]

I find the comments about the Middle East being diluted and under powered odd. For me on either H/H or VH/VH I have 3 long campaigns going, England and Norrway VH/VH and Poland H/H, and in all three the Fatimids, Kwaz, and Turks are in the top 5 factions. Templars were the first eliminated faction in all 3 campaigns as well, a speed bump. Cairo keeps getting Crusaded against, or Antioch, and Western factions take it, then a Jihad takes it back. Particularily in my Norway campaign the see-saw balance is amazing. Mongols are doing some damage now, but the original Eastern factions are still all strong. If anything I find the Cumans to be a waste of space. Because of distances, they never seem to grow powerful. Especially when the Mongols pop up in their space.

[ssmarine]

Ive seen the Cumans take over most of Russia. Ive seen the Templars take over most of the middle East. And Ive seen them both destroyed early on as well. The game is pretty balanced. Ive played a campaign with every faction at least once. Nothing needs to be removed in my opinion.

[JaM]

From player perspective, they are ok, but AI is not human, there are factions that are stronger and weaker in AI's hands. And France, HRE, Englan are weak, Ireland Scottland, Venice, Sicily etc are strong...

[Chappy4756]

I also find the difficulty level changes the effectiveness of certain factions. On anything less than H/H, Ireland just sits on the Emerald Isle, Scots get wiped by England, and France and HRE flounder. The Italian factions dominate with their auto resolve militias, and often Aragon is the dominant Iberian power. the Danes are always strong too. On H/H and VH/VH, I see all sorts of crazy things, like the roaming Irish powerhouse(ambhib invasion), France is running over people in my Polish campaign, and Genoa is gone. So, the difficulty level seems to trigger different AI behaviour.

[Quark]

I think that people are missing some big points here. I love historical accuracy (and hence mod my game, or use a different mod for such) but I would not think of removing the Templars. As a 'faction' they were richer than many countries for one point, but more importantly they are fun to play for some people, and thats enough in this mod (especially as the guy doing all the work for free loves them). The 'what if' school of thought says, what if Aragon took over the world, so lets give them the oppotuinity. While its inaccurate, it does allow for different games to be played. If we just made France, HRE, England etc powerful, then each and every game we play would have these factions doing the same thing, and reduce the element of surprise/difference which enhances the game for many players.

As to the west/east view, people cried out that the game was to wester-centric and that the east should be more represented, so thats what KK did, and rightly so. For the vast majority of the game factions fought for supremacy across the globe, and its only after 1470 that the power struggle for world dominancy shifted to the West (by which I include Anitolia and the Ottamans).

I have had this discussion with JaM, really there needs to be a seperate SS mod, perhaps called SS Renaissance (1470-1700) which focusses on the age of pike and shot, the discovery of America etc, but that would need a whole new map and mobels file.

As it stands at the moment I think SS has the map and factions just about right (except Ireland of course , much rather have Georgia), given the limits that we have. Yes I would like the ability to do things like unite factions, but we just do not have the faction slots for such. Yes there are things that I change, but I acknowledge that how I play is not for everyone, and what the mod has within at present is what has made it so succesful, and got us all here disccussing it.

[Brewskii]

I always thought stainless steel was aiming for historical acuracy and I think king kong and all the others did a really good job

[Jimbe]

I went to the middle-east with my english king and had a hard time taking Acre and Jerusalem from the fattamids. I saw the templars were being crushed by them and the fattamids controlled loads of land and armies

[Barser]

Quark: that was wise words