Historical accuracy

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Templars.
I never go on crusade becuse of them and they make map so unstable that most of middle east provinces are rebbels.
Is there must be christian faction arround Jerusalem ?
Crusade sistem is broken because of them, most times I go on crusade against christians (is there any historical accuracy in this).
I played 140 turns early era and found middle east totally deserted. Egypt in ruins , Turks in ruins, Templars in ruins, Byzant in ruins. Heretic is most common belive in whole east (not pagan).Even Golden Horde do not attack rebbels.
There should be separate mod for Templars. Now they just mess up map or they are gone before turn 20.

[Oddball_E8]

well... there was a strong christian precence in the middle-east after the first crusade around 1099 so not including them would be ahistorical

although increasing the start date for the game to 1099 might make it even more historical... (or scripting their presence, but that might upset anyone who likes to play the muslim factions)

[Sonny WiFiHr]

well... there was a strong christian precence in the middle-east after the first crusade around 1099 so not including them would be ahistorical

although increasing the start date for the game to 1099 might make it even more historical... (or scripting their presence, but that might upset anyone who likes to play the muslim factions)

You are talking about KoJ. Tempalrs were christian order not state like TO.Antioh was conquered by crusaders not templars.I think that they do not even exist.But this is minor problem. Most campaigns are screwed by their presence because (if they survive) they spread religious unrest (creating horde of heretics) and all arround settlements do not have any religious building making this area waste land.

[Oddball_E8]

yes, but thats just a minor thing... if you allow the kindom of jerusalem from the start you will still have the same problems (only worse since they can recruit both templars, hospitallers and their own knights...)

so thats not really gonna help is it?

but from what im getting off you i think you dont want any christians there at all... and that WOULDNT be historically accurate... wich is what you claim to want...

look at the templar order faction as the amalgomation of all the crusading factions...
or you could just rename the order "crusading kingdoms" instead...

[Sonny WiFiHr]

yes, but thats just a minor thing... if you allow the kindom of jerusalem from the start you will still have the same problems (only worse since they can recruit both templars, hospitallers and their own knights...)

so thats not really gonna help is it?

but from what im getting off you i think you dont want any christians there at all... and that WOULDNT be historically accurate... wich is what you claim to want...

look at the templar order faction as the amalgomation of all the crusading factions...
or you could just rename the order "crusading kingdoms" instead...

I do not have problem with KoJ (late era campaign) they existed but not as everbody thinks.
Templar states do not exist (never) or any christian country at this time arround Jerusalem. Christians lived in this area (Edessa) with certan autonomy but not as separate states.

[Katzbalger]

I do not have problem with KoJ (late era campaign) they existed but not as everbody thinks.
Templar states do not exist (never) or any christian country at this time arround Jerusalem. Christians lived in this area (Edessa) with certan autonomy but not as separate states.

I too want Templars out as a faction, and this comes from a sort of 'western-biased crusader-fan'. However soon people come to say "this is a fun-mod, not a historical mod" and other will join the chorus. My personal view is more historical accuracy = more fun, but majority will disagree.

edit. I have not yet much played SS around Middle East, so I'm not aware of bugs. But if those Templars indeed mess up AI behavior of neighbouring factions, there is another reason to remove them.

[tup]

The Templars are in, because King Kong wanted to make them as his own faction and so the whole SS project got started. That's it. If you want to go for the historical/ahistorical point you could say that SS was never intended to be a historical mod.

[Barser]

It is pretty accurate but if you want the extreme then some of the other factions should probably also get removed aswell + some of the units.. I sugest playing another mod to those that cant live without a game that is pure historical accurate.

[Oddball_E8]

or... like i said.. ignore that theyre the "templar faction" and view them as a conglomeration of free christian states/citys in or near the jerusalem area and protected mainly by templars...

EDIT: either that or make your own damned mod (sorry, just had a long day. but i stand by what i said)

[Skooma Addict]

Would it be possible to script in say, two or three stacks of Templars led by Baldwin or Guy(I can't remember who led the first crusade but Wikipedia says it was Godefroy de Bouillon and Sigurd of Norway. Is that correct?) have them take Antioch and Jerusalem and then have the Kingdom of Jerusalem as an emerging faction? :hmmm:

[Sonny WiFiHr]

or... like i said.. ignore that theyre the "templar faction" and view them as a conglomeration of free christian states/citys in or near the jerusalem area and protected mainly by templars...

EDIT: either that or make your own damned mod (sorry, just had a long day. but i stand by what i said)

And what about crusades? It is no big problem to put them out or make them to appear in another region or to just add them to Papal states. It is possible to make them crusading (horde) army. But they will mess crusades again.
And historical accuracy just concern fact that we are forced to crusade against christians (Venice after 1204 got excomunicated).
I had no sucesfull crusade (if they exist) even with long term preparation.

[Oddball_E8]

ive had plenty of crusades... ive taken over alexandria, the castle east of it and am now crusading against cairo...
the only failed crusade ive had was on jerusalem wich the templars managed to take, but not hold... it was retaken a few turns later by the egyptians...

i have never ever crusaded against a christian nation... not even excommunicated ones...

[Sonny WiFiHr]

ive had plenty of crusades... ive taken over alexandria, the castle east of it and am now crusading against cairo...
the only failed crusade ive had was on jerusalem wich the templars managed to take, but not hold... it was retaken a few turns later by the egyptians...

i have never ever crusaded against a christian nation... not even excommunicated ones...

Later you will have lesser choice of crusading target. Badly damaged Egyptians will fall under Templar pressure (they will take Damascuss, Edessa etc) if you do not stop them. And they will declare war upon you when they became strong.
It will be better to put them on Ciprus . This will solve heretics spawn and make them playable.
I realy do not want to remove them but still they are messing up to much. Religious unrest should be lowered too. If they got destroed you have different expirience in campaign (actualy crusade sistem works with no Templars)

[Oddball_E8]

ok... maby they could start as a hoard next to their present starting position and have that city as a "christian rebels" city or something...

[JaM]

I vote for removing them and use that slot for more important factions like Burgundy or Sweden or others...



my 1000th post! yey,

[tup]

Well, as I said and as many others said in a whole lot of similar threads the Templars are KK's baby and what got this mod started, voting for removing them is totally fruitless, as it will most likely never ever happen.

[JaM]

best way would be make them available for every faction with Templar Chapterhouse as it was before.

[Barser]

Would it be possible to script in say, two or three stacks of Templars led by Baldwin or Guy(I can't remember who led the first crusade but Wikipedia says it was Godefroy de Bouillon and Sigurd of Norway. Is that correct?) have them take Antioch and Jerusalem and then have the Kingdom of Jerusalem as an emerging faction? :hmmm:

just download jerusalem emerges script and set the date in campaign_script to when you want them to come. Thats baldwin sacking jerusalem along with another general I cant remember the name of.

[Oddball_E8]

best way would be make them available for every faction with Templar Chapterhouse as it was before.

they still are...

anyway, i say rename them to kingdom of jerusalem and incorporate the KoJ into the templar faction... and completely remove the emerging kingdom of jerusalem.
or maby do that but name the faction "crusading kingdoms" or "kingdom of heaven" (a bit cheesy i know) or even just "crusaders" or "christian indipendant crusading kingdoms".

in other words, keep the templars, but incorporate them into a more diverse faction of mish-mash crusader states...

that way KK could keep his precious templars (no, im not being sarcastic) and the accuracy freaks (yeah, im basically one of you, so dont get a hissyfit) would still get the closest thing to a historically correct christian presence in the middle east.

[Sonny WiFiHr]