who else thinks Shogin total war was a wierd place to start

[Katene]

Well what can I say mate? You would be my first encounter with someone stating these things in the forums that I've noticed in all my time. Sorry to here this for you, but I never had any problems when I played Shogun (outside of minor qirks) specifically as relates to what I said.But I am truly astonished that you have never seen this in Rome, because if I wanted to spent a hour or two digging through TWC and the ORG I could produce many topics about it.Secondly, since I find it so hard to believe, rather than continue off topic about Rome would you care to PM me with your game version details? We could also start a new thread about which game has more tactical bugs as I would be willing to capture some video of it happening just to be sure that I'm not going senile in my "old age" turning 35 Tuesday

Never had any problems?... Well, so it's the most constant model of the world - Japanese model. No matter what, I will capture some. But to tell the truth, I have never face a maneuver error with Rome (and face many and many annoying maneuver with Shogun, although I like Shogun more), despite the concentration to one point error (and this was fixed then).

[Armatus]

What is that link? But one thing I should make clear is that I never played Shogun, but rather Mongol Invasion. So if there were annoying errors in the first release maybe they were corrected by the time Mongol Invasion came out?

[Katene]

Some docs; download it if you want. I'm playing Shogun Total War - Warlord Edition (include the original and the sequel).


Ex. The left medium archer is moving somewhere unknown, unstoptable, and not displayed on the units tab.

[Armatus]

You know what I actually do remember that happening on occasion. Unlike in Rome where things like that occurred faithfully. Anyway if you want to start a new thread STW vs RTW feel free, but you're going to need to produce more that one simple screenshot. This doesn't really show the bug in action.

EDIT: that seems to be an troop alignment issue, the unit should stop once it's free of the other unit. Rome was better in that respect, but at the same time in Rome your units would often bunch up and not form correctly even though you could put one inside the other without problems like in STW & MTW.

[duda]

it was weird. but it makes me happier when i play shogun, than playing any other game...

[Plan C]

STW was a perfect era to start with, in fact I reckon it has not yet been bettered and STW remains to this day the best TW game ever made (the first MTW is a close second).

Firstly - all factions have the same units, which I think is a) realistic and b) makes the game a lot more difficult and, paradoxally, more rewarding on tactical level. STW had a fantastic rock-paper-scissor balance to it, that was completely lost in RTW and M2TW where CA concentrated on churning out hundreds of different units so much they actually made the battles dull and repetitive. I remember CA claims that winning a battle in M2TW on VH was going to be a major achievement. I think we all shared the disappointment. It made perfect sense to keep it simple!

Secondly - the setting was perfect for TW formula, much better than medieval/ancient Europe for many reasons; mostly the fact that army size feels totally genuine. How can it feel right to fight a decisive battle between two major nations and fielding less than 2,000 men? This has been partially solved in mods like RS 1.5 or SPQR where army sizes have been increased significantly and battles feel much better. Also, each of the clans in STW (and many other clans of the time not included in STW) had equally realistic chances of conquering the whole map. There were no clear favourites and balance of strengths and weaknesses on strategic level was nearly perfect. STW was arguably the last TW game which gave all factions equal attention and made each clan equally fun to play. To this day there are factions in RTW and M2TW which I haven't even bothered trying yet and I don't think I ever will.

Lastly - aesthetic side of STW is IMO beyond any other TW game. Bear with me here. The graphics side is stunning, and one can really feel that the designers poured their heart and soul into making the game. Music in STW has not yet been surpassed by any TW game IMO, it's pitch-perfect and creates fantastic atmosphere. I could go on and on...

The best TW title? To me it's still the first one.

[Martok]

Lastly - aesthetic side of STW is IMO beyond any other TW game. Bear with me here. The graphics side is stunning, and one can really feel that the designers poured their heart and soul into making the game. Music in STW has not yet been surpassed by any TW game IMO, it's pitch-perfect and creates fantastic atmosphere. I could go on and on...

The best TW title? To me it's still the first one.

All well said, marrow, and especially the last part. +1 to rep.

[Dust Bunnies]

Shogun will forever be a classic, an excellent game. It is the King (or Queen) of the TW series.

[Don in the North]

i didnt play shogun when it first came out, but i saw a heap of previews in magazines, i put it on my list to buy when i had the money.
sadly c&c 1 was on top so i passed up on buying it when i had the chance , in favor of what turned out to be an awesome game.

i finally did buy shogun , a few months before Rtw was released and i played it for weeks on end. it was immersive and the music was perfect. altho it took me a while to adjust the the campaign aspect i really just played for the uniqe battles.

that being said, one of the greatest things in shogun that no other game has matched (PROPERLY) to date is the wedge formation.
cavalry on wedge formation was completely devastating and i used it almost every chance i had.


japan was definatly the best place to start, and i do hope they make a shogun2 that enlarges the map to m2tw's huge map size, with alot more regions, bottleneck areas and ambush areas.

[Saint_jimmyz]

So who else is waiting for Shogun 2 Total War? Or do you think CA will develop Rome 2 first?

[Dust Bunnies]

I am somewhat against sequels for Shogun. Shogun was very magical, and any sequel for it would fail to get even close to the original's magic.

[Armatus]

I would agree with Dust Bunnies, CA just isn't the same CA that created Shogun back in the day. Any new attempt would ruin the magic. Maybe in the future, but not anytime soon.

[Saint_jimmyz]

That is a good point. Its like someone remaking a classic movie. Sure, it's flashy and the special effects are good, but its just not the same.

So Rome 2 it is then

[Armatus]

Everyone always says M2 has great graphics and that may be true in regards to unit modeling, but to be honest it's not that great. What is going to be needed greatness all around. Total Atmosphere. Something that mods have tried to improve such as SS, BC, and others in development. I want more than just a large scale strategy game I want Total Emerson.

[Saint_jimmyz]

Thats one thing M2TW fails at. It simply does not capture the dark atmosphere of the original MTW. Some peopel are so annoyed at this they have created a mod designed to make M2TW as faithful to the original as possible, and to recapture the dark atmosphere.

[Plan C]

That's because M2TW was not meant to be dark at all.
One of the main reasons for making M2TW was the fact that CA could "properly capture the vivid pageantry of the middle ages" or something along those lines.

In fairness - as mentioned before - unit modelling (no more clones), new skeletons, unit animations were a vast improvement over RTW. So were buildings on battle maps. This doesn't alleviate the main issue - lack of atmosphere.

Having spent 3 years solid playing STW to death I must say I was slightly disappointed with the graphics side of MTW. Battles still looked a lot better in STW with misty hills, little farms, each season illustrated to perfection and so on. This is actually my main gripe with all the other TW games - none of the titles that followed Shogun managed to give a better feel for terrain and weather than STW did. Winter really did look and feel "frosty", summer did feel lavish and hot and autumn battes were just something else. Add to this superb soundtrack and really I don't see how the newer games have been an improvement. I'm getting carried away here...

I don't want CA to make another STW. I personally think that modders will do a much better job of capturing the essence of sengoku.
In fact we could do it ourselves (I would need to learn a lot more about modding and this will have to wait until I've found another job) I see no reason why this should be impossible. Anyone up for that in near future (say after new year)?

[Osceola]

Shogun was the best TW ever made, hands down.

Rome wishes it was Shogun.

Rome goes to bed each night crying itself to sleep over the fact, that it's name isn't Shogun.

[Plan C]

If Shogun has a fiver and RTW has a fiver...

[Osceola]

.. Que?

[Armatus]

@ Marrow, I mostly agree, there are aspects of M2 that are better than all the games, but the things it lacks over shadow them. One thing that has continued throughout the series is the soundtrack. CA has used the same composer for all of them I'm fairly sure and I love M2's soundtrack.

One thing that annoys me about M2 was the narrator, I've heard his voice somewhere, but he just sounds like some pompous lilly old Britt, not even pompous but just a wishy washy old school teacher, my apologies to him he was only taking the job.... but every time his voice begins I have to skip the video or the intro.