Research Thread: Bulgaria

[Nakharar]

Gogo you know what you could do you see the new Khan model you made you could make the sword like the one in the Khan picture and make the sword holder like the one in the picture too keep going

[alien_t]

I made one completely new sword model - Khan Kubrat's sword. I hope you like it.
The texture is V.I.P

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It can be used for Khan's model or even for his bodygards...

[alien_t]

New helmet...

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The original...

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[Nakharar]

Nice can East of Rome use the helmet and the sword??

[alien_t]

Nice can East of Rome use the helmet and the sword??

Yes of course.
I'll send them to Gogo_t and he will remake some of the models with them.

[Nakharar]

Thanks

[Kavhan Isbul]

Great job! The sword model will deffinitely add a lot of flavor to the units, who use it. There is a possibility that it was single edged, as opposed to double edged, but based on what remains of it, nobody can argue either way.

The helmet is also nice, and I think this style was quite widespread throughout the Dark Ages, and so it could be used not only for Bulgarian, but also for other units.

Really nice!

[alien_t]

Great job! The sword model will deffinitely add a lot of flavor to the units, who use it. There is a possibility that it was single edged, as opposed to double edged, but based on what remains of it, nobody can argue either way.

The helmet is also nice, and I think this style was quite widespread throughout the Dark Ages, and so it could be used not only for Bulgarian, but also for other units.

Really nice!

10x friend,
We will use the new helmets probably and for Avars & Hazars(with different textures) exept for Bulgars.
I'm planning to make some variations of the helmets, which will be slightely different like this one(V.I.P):

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The concept art:

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There are also plans to make some stuffs from this picture(sabre, "hairy" helmet and the spear with the horse tail):

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[Kavhan Isbul]

There are also plans to make some stuffs from this picture(sabre, "hairy" helmet and the spear with the horse tail):

I am afraid that anything connected to the Bagatur society should not be taken as a reliable representation of Bulgarian eqipment and clothing. This is not an attack on Bagatur - they are a great society, but I believe their goal is to inspire people to learn more about the early Bulgarians and the Thracians, not historical reenactment.

This being said, for maximum accuracy niether the sabre, nor the helmet can be used, and I am sceptical regarding the lance as well. Starting with the sabre - the typical Bulgarian sabre was a thin, graceful weapon with a slight, barely noticeable widening at the top. One of the best examples is kept in the National History Museum. A good book on the subject is Valeri Yotov's "Въоръжението и Снаряжението през Първото Българско Царство". I will try to find pictures or drawings of Bulgarian sabres from the 8th century.

Then there is the helmet. I am not sure where from, apart from movies such as "The Glory of the Khan", people get the idea that early Bulgarians were looking like a mixture of Lakota indians and Conan the Barbarian's gang - all the leather, all the fur. Most steppe peoples actually preferred colorful clothes from fabric, as suggested by the survivng pictorial evidence, such as "Menology of Basil", where the Bulgarians, slaying the Roman soldiers are depicted in colrful caftans. I personally have no proof that fur was attached to helmets. Besides, the attached fur adds nothing in protection, and does not really enhance the helmet's visual appearance. If anything, too much fur during battle may be a problem, as it will drive the body temperature up and combined with metal armor, such a mail vest for example, could lead to a heat stroke. Please, do not overdo the fur and the leather!

Finally, the spear. Again, I will need to check actual finds in books such as the one quoted above, to see if the profile of this spear would work.

Please do not get me wrong - I am not trying to be picky to the popint of absurdity, but if you are going to work on new models for helmets, spears and sabres, you might make them as accurate as possible.

[alien_t]

ОК, no problem. I'll wait you to post some pictures of sabres from the 8th century, helmet/spear.

[NikeBG]

A good book on the subject is Valeri Yotov's "Въоръжението и Снаряжението през Първото Българско Царство". I will try to find pictures or drawings of Bulgarian sabres from the 8th century.

I've already scanned "some" pics from it (if you mean his "Въоръжението и снаряжението от българското средновековие (VII-XI век)") and uploaded them here, as I have also posted about it in our dev forums (Alien_t, you've seen the post?). I haven't scanned mostly some of the kistens (I guess it would require a complex new animation), the arrow-tips (can't be implemented in the game, unfortunately) and the horse gear.

[Kavhan Isbul]

Great job, you have done most of the work then!

I can help with an image of a modern reproduction, made after serious research, mostly based on the examples from Yotov's book. I hope seeing a complete sabre will help alien_t and the rest of the guys in charge of making these really nice object models. Apologies for the poor quality of the picture, but the photography is not mine (nor is the sabre, unfortunately). Note the slight widening at the tip of the blade - this element is common on nomadic sabres, and the blade in this section is sharpened and has an edge on both sides. It seems that early Bulagrians weanted not only a slashing weapon, but one that could be used for stabbing as well, which suggests that they were masters of fencing. The elements on the hilt are self-explanatory, but perhaps the most notable element is the little brass insert at the beginning of the blade. There is a debate over its purpose, but the most likely its use was connected to the style of warfare of the Bulgarians back then. As they relied heavily on their bow, they wore an archer's ring on their right hand, which made it somewhat uncomfortable to grip a sword in the usual way. For a better grip with the ring on, the forefinger was put over the crossguard, and the brass insert prevented the fingers from being cut on the blade. Other version is that the brass thingy helped secure the sword tighter in the scabbard and prevented water from entering.

[alien_t]

3 new cavalry spears. The first form the left should be with horse tail

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These pictures was my inspiration

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The next model will be sabre from Kavhan Isbul's picture

[alien_t]

New Sabre model. The texture is VIP and is taken from the picture.

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In game screenshot

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[gogo t]

[AnthoniusII]

Exelent work alien_t!!!+rep!

[alien_t]

Exelent work alien_t!!!+rep!

Thank you friend.

[Basil 11]

wow - I really like the sword

[AppS]

sorry for my english abd offtopic, but maybe there are specialist on bolgarian in XVII century

is historical correct illustrations on this book?

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http://empiretw.ru/foto/images/262672Pict00020.jpg
http://empiretw.ru/foto/images/165863Pict00050.jpg
http://empiretw.ru/foto/images/559880Pict00060.jpg

other here
(topic about Bolgarian fraction on mod OiM TW - new patch-addon 1.3

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http://empiretw.ru/board/index.php?showtopic=6703

[NikeBG]

I'm not familiar with these times (after gunpowder), so I can't speak about the accuracy of the pictures there, but I have to thank you for reminding me to check out that book (the one about the medieval times was good enough, so I hope this one will be too).