[Faction Research thread] The Muslim Caliphate

**Vipman** · August 28, 2012, 01:46 PM

I just tested and it's possible to play with an emergent faction in a hotseat campaign, play with a faction or skip turns until that emergent faction arrives, then turn that faction to human control and world is yours

In retrofit mod I turned mongols human and it was ok (meaning no CTD, but I did just a fast test, didn't test for every thing). I think only problem might be if it affects scripts that spawns it's armies, and about this I have no idea...

**Giorgios** · August 30, 2012, 09:45 AM

People might enjoy this documentary, presenting a rather unorthodox view on the early years of Islam. I'm not 100% sure if it'll work outside of Britain, but thought I'd share anyway!

**naddum** · September 08, 2012, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by matmohair1

a gift from our dear friend Ahiga

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Which book are these from?
Thanks

Update: (sorry, I can't seem to edit my posts ...)

I found the name of the artist, who has a number of other pieces, if you are interested:

http://a-salim.com/gallery_illustrations.htm

**trlus** · October 24, 2012, 01:58 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suOQO...feature=relmfu

**Alkimachos** · October 24, 2012, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by trlus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suOQO...feature=relmfu

Sth about the Prophet Muhammad?

**trlus** · October 25, 2012, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Alkimachos

Sth about the Prophet Muhammad?

Omar Series May be useful ؟!

**hameem123** · December 10, 2012, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by trlus

Omar Series May be useful ؟!

yes exactly! i was about to say this that the Omar Series would be helpful for the developers to get their ideas on how the Rashidun Caliphate Govern and equip its Military as well as how they make Military Strategy and how their banners and symbols look like....you can easily search it up in YouTube "OmarSeries" its a very long series but you guys can just watch the main battles that will give you ideas how the Rashidun Army looks like.

anyway after seeing the previous post and arguements as well as the developers perspective about the Rashidun Caliphate,i have low hopes that they will portray them historical and with justice and even some Mod fans have this "Islamiphobia" trait in them,i would gladly stick to Broken Crescent even if they cover a different timeline but the good thing in Broken Crescent is they respect Islam and its Culture and History as well as they research things historically getting their sources from genuine ones not just "Wikipedia" because Wikipedia is known to alter history and real information specially when its about Islam or its history. anyway this is just my opinion but i hope this will change and i am looking forward for this mod because this is the first ever mod who will try and portray the Rashidun Caliphate.

to those people who have no idea of Islam and its History,you don't have the right to bad mouth the 4 early Caliphs or the Rightly Guided Caliphs because you doesn't even have a idea on how they live,the stories of Umar ibn al-Khattab will fascinate you all and even Roman messengers who have come to visit him was deeply touched on how they saw that the Caliph they are fearing is just sleeping outside in the ground unguarded and a Roman messenger even quoted [this is not exact but this is the meaning] "here you are,the Caliph whom the world have feared laying outside unguarded without fear because you have governed your people honestly and fairly that you are not afraid they will rebel or do bad to you while our Kings and Queens with their castles and guards still can't suffice to make them feel safe and sleep peaceful because they fear their power will be taken from them"....the point here is you guys have no respect! specially that guy Toho who said that Caliphs are like Pope which are corrupt and evil? in the first place you doesn't even know the meaning of a Caliph and the purpose of this rank.....would you guys take it kindly if i say that Emperor Constantine who you people greatly admired is the person who have hijacked Christianity turning it into his own desires such as making the so called "Christmas Day" and other Paganic traditions like Valentines day and etc.,i think no so the answer here is "RESPECT" because without "RESPECT" this discussion will turn into ruin with arguments and debate.

Please, use the edit button. Thank you.

~Alkimachos

**TaronQuinn** · December 11, 2012, 12:01 AM

@hameem123, Thank you for your contribution, and I'm sure the team is making every effort to present the early Caliphate in the most realistic manner.

I think the concerns you have with how some forum members have been discussing this issue are well grounded, but the main issue from the early pages of this thread have been over what qualifies as legitimate historical sources. Yes, first-hand accounts of the early Caliphs and their military forces are especially useful, and most likely highly detailed; a historian has to read ALL sources, even ones he/she agrees with, with an eye towards discerning bias and hyperbole. I would be the last person to judge any historical figure, but does not mean I would hesitate to discuss all their actions and accounts of their deeds, no matter how negative they might be.

I think the majority of this discussion has been quite respectful; thorough research often involves digging into many sources, some complimentary, and some derogatory. For example, the anecdote you provide of a Roman envoy remarking on the Caliph's humility and lack of fear is enlightening. As a historian, without discounting its validity, I would ask: Who wrote this down? When does it first appear in the sources; how long after the event it recounts? In what context did he encounter the Caliph; after a battle, after a long journey, while the Caliph had just awoken? Do we have the messenger's name or description to determine where he came from or what his previous views might have been? None of these questions are disrespectful, they are merely trying to ascertain the authenticity of this event. I.e., was it an actual event recorded in multiple sources and witnessed by several people? Was it a story told by a courtier trying to comment on the Caliph's noble qualities and putting those words into a Roman's mouth to lend them greater wonder?

Finally, I would agree with you that Constantine did hijack Christianity for his own purposes, and did alter many aspects of its theology, hierarchy, and even effectiveness for the sake of reinforcing his hold on power. So I take it quite kindly, without being offended, and while still holding quite strongly to my Christian beliefs; insulting Constantine is not an insult to MY beliefs. I hope that any and every Muslim who reads this thread realizes that any criticisms of Muslim accounts or critical comments on important Muslim figures are NOT attacks on Islam or its tenets, at least on my part.

TQ

PS - One nit-picky thing: Punctuation and spacing! Please organize your writing into complete sentences using punctuation, and try to make paragraphs, as it makes them MUCH easier to read. Thanks.

**Alkimachos** · December 11, 2012, 02:48 AM

The EoR Team, respects all religions,beliefs and nations and trying to present them with the best way. About Historical accuracy, we working always exhaustively on it.

Thanks for your comments and your support.

~Alkimachos

**hameem123** · December 11, 2012, 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by TaronQuinn

@hameem123, Thank you for your contribution, and I'm sure the team is making every effort to present the early Caliphate in the most realistic manner.

I think the concerns you have with how some forum members have been discussing this issue are well grounded, but the main issue from the early pages of this thread have been over what qualifies as legitimate historical sources. Yes, first-hand accounts of the early Caliphs and their military forces are especially useful, and most likely highly detailed; a historian has to read ALL sources, even ones he/she agrees with, with an eye towards discerning bias and hyperbole. I would be the last person to judge any historical figure, but does not mean I would hesitate to discuss all their actions and accounts of their deeds, no matter how negative they might be.

I think the majority of this discussion has been quite respectful; thorough research often involves digging into many sources, some complimentary, and some derogatory. For example, the anecdote you provide of a Roman envoy remarking on the Caliph's humility and lack of fear is enlightening. As a historian, without discounting its validity, I would ask: Who wrote this down? When does it first appear in the sources; how long after the event it recounts? In what context did he encounter the Caliph; after a battle, after a long journey, while the Caliph had just awoken? Do we have the messenger's name or description to determine where he came from or what his previous views might have been? None of these questions are disrespectful, they are merely trying to ascertain the authenticity of this event. I.e., was it an actual event recorded in multiple sources and witnessed by several people? Was it a story told by a courtier trying to comment on the Caliph's noble qualities and putting those words into a Roman's mouth to lend them greater wonder?

Finally, I would agree with you that Constantine did hijack Christianity for his own purposes, and did alter many aspects of its theology, hierarchy, and even effectiveness for the sake of reinforcing his hold on power. So I take it quite kindly, without being offended, and while still holding quite strongly to my Christian beliefs; insulting Constantine is not an insult to MY beliefs. I hope that any and every Muslim who reads this thread realizes that any criticisms of Muslim accounts or critical comments on important Muslim figures are NOT attacks on Islam or its tenets, at least on my part.

TQ

PS - One nit-picky thing: Punctuation and spacing! Please organize your writing into complete sentences using punctuation, and try to make paragraphs, as it makes them MUCH easier to read. Thanks.

i agree to all of what you have mentioned but i disagree about the thing you said that if someone attack the pillars or founding fathers of your religion is not attacking your religion itself,the 4 first Caliphs were loved and highly regarded by our Prophet (PBUH) and if he loved them and even promised them heaven then why will we not love them and protect them also? its kinda hard to explain but idk if you get my point,anyway here is a much more proper accounts regarding about the one i posted earlier (forgive me because i don't give importance to sentence structure and was never in my interest to learn it as you have seen in my earlier posts)

And what was the justice of Umar? Ink will dry and paper will finish before it is possible to describe all the living examples of justice established by the Prophet and embodied in the legacies of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs who succeeded him. Yet one statement, made by a Roman, reveals a glimpse into the justice of Umar , the second Caliph after the death of the Prophet . One afternoon a Roman emissary arrived in Madinah on important diplomatic business with the Caliph. When he enquired as to the whereabouts of Umar , he was directed to a man sleeping peacefully under a tree: with no bodyguards, no weapons, no fortifications and no security. The Roman messenger marvelled at this sight: the sight of the leader of millions of people sleeping peacefully under a tree without a care in the world. He then remarked his famous words that remain etched into history until today: “O Umar! You ruled. You were just. Thus you were safe. And thus you slept.”

Such is the security that justice brings to both the ruler and the ruled. Umar was just to his people so he had nothing to fear from them. He rendered to everyone their rights so they had no grievances against him. His people slept in peace. So he too slept in peace. How the world yearns for this sleep!

O Umar! If only you would return,

To spread justice so the world would learn,

That even a stone of your justice,

Would rescue it from this fathomless abyss.

here is the complete post (idk if Links are allowed here)
http://istighfar.wordpress.com/2007/...ne-of-justice/

one last thing is i Salute the devs on how they deal and reply with people just like me,i will be waiting for the mods full release (because i am not interested in the Danube Limes and know nothing about it)

**Ayyubid** · April 16, 2013, 07:15 PM

If you need help with this, I can help, and would be damn happy to. I have been an Islamic history nut since I was 5, and still am

**Alkimachos** · April 17, 2013, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Ayyubid

If you need help with this, I can help, and would be damn happy to. I have been an Islamic history nut since I was 5, and still am

We will have you in our minds when the time comes about Caliphate. Thank you.

**Brivime** · April 22, 2013, 12:59 AM

Are there any previews for this faction yet? I'd love to see how they're portrayed.

**Alkimachos** · April 22, 2013, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Brivime

Are there any previews for this faction yet? I'd love to see how they're portrayed.

Not yet.

**hameem123** · August 08, 2013, 07:59 PM

i am feeling this mod will take some longer time i guess.

**Caudillo87** · August 08, 2013, 08:59 PM

Yup, like any good wine and beer, it takes time to formulate the perfect combinations of "flavors" that will make the final product all the more "delicious" when "consumed." Rushing the product will cause unfortunate defects that will cause more anger and resentment then joy and relief. We are coming along as best as we can so please be patient with us, as you may know we have other obligations that take us away from this project but please be assured that we will never abandon this mod so please bear with us, thank you.

**Cybernaut** · December 15, 2013, 10:24 PM

If you plan to make this faction playable either in vanilla or separate campaign, this faction should, at some point, suffer greatly from scism between shias and sunnis and other problems but if player is skilled and resourceful enough, they could manage to keep the factions existence and authority and be able to continue game even if that is unhistorical. At the very least it would require that shias and other separatist factions should be reconquered or otherwise subjugated very soon after their secession before further trouble arises.