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Thread: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

  1. #1

    Icon6 Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Hey there! Long time to see, guys, err?

    Anyway, I'm back and finally going to do that TSE AAR that I said I would do over a year ago. However, I do remember that you liked getting a say in what to do (and if we weren't all control freaks, we wouldn't be playing this game, now, would we?) so this will be different from my previous AAR, which consisted of me posting about horsemen eat everything in sight without any interactivity with yours truly.

    Right then, the plan: I will post an update on a weekly basis (unless real life makes a rude interruption). However, I will also be raising military and diplomatic issues - who to ally with, who to declare war upon, which strategy of attack or defence to adopt, etc., etc. - for which anyone and everyone will be able to vote on the final decision. For better or worse, you - my advisers, my purpurati - will decide the outcome of the mighty Seleucid Empire.

    Currently, the immediate concern is the lack of infrastructure through the Empire. The next few years will be dedicated to improving the quality of living for all citizens of our lands and upgrading our military training facilities in preparation for the inevitable war with the House of Ptolemy in the South and the barbarian horsemen of the North.

    An alliance with the Greek City-States and more recently the Macedonians allows us more breathing space to the West, but I suspect only temporarily. For now, this peace between our Hellenic peoples does get us time to develop our capacity for trade.

    Since this is only the start, besides the few skirmishes against rebels and pirates, action is few and far between. Our sole spy reports of military movement in the South, clearly in preparation of an attack. But while their forces are gathering slowly, an army nearly 2000 men strong - and personally led by our noble king himself - is already stationed at Antioch in anticipation for the opening battle.

    Now for the first item of the day (unfortunately, it being so early in the game, it's not the most interesting of choices); the war with the House of Ptolemy is inevitable. Do we:
    a) make use of our superior position and prepare for the Ptolemic strike come to us while raising our own forces for an overwhelming counter attack,
    b) take the initiative and march South with our current forces,
    c) launch attackes of opportunity, striking at their scattered forces whenever possible in an attempt to bait the enemy into a pre-mature attack?

  2. #2
    TM Is Back's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Welcome back Dictatorfish.

    Lovely a simple version of the XGM diplomacy game.

    As i am always a player who likes a good fight and dont want to defend or even get into a war of attriton I always take the initiative. Let them defend against your forces. You know the best defence is the offence.

    So i will vote b) this time.


    Poll: Which plan must the TSE follow against Ptolomaic Empire?[*]a) use position, defence, couter-atack[*]b) take the initiative and march attack the[*]c) launch attackes of opportunity
    Tussenstand:
    Last edited by TM Is Back; July 20, 2008 at 09:52 AM.

  3. #3

    Icon14 Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Thanks! It's good to be back.

    Heh, I couldn't do a "diplomacy game" style AAR even if I wanted to: it'd be so slow I'd get bored of waiting, I'm too much of a control freak and I simply don't have the time to do something like that. So as a compromise you guys get to macromanage the Empire while I have fun with the detail and taking holiday snaps.

    By the way, that's a really neat little poll you've set there. Thanks for that too.

  4. #4
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    I vote B) as well, and welcome back Dictatorfish! I remember your Scythian AAR, it was great but you ran over the AI nations really easily, no challenge for you.

    Don't give the Ptolemies time to build up, they start weak and thats how a good Seleucids king likes to keep them.

    And great idea to do a TSE AAR, I've never seen one, and avoid playing them, but you may convince me to start one.



  5. #5
    Unknown Soldier's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Dictatorfish you could've added your own poll using the forum tools.

    Good to have you back!

    Fix the problem, not the blame!

    XGM Diplomacy AAR - intelligence and voting
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...24#post3680924 :hmmm:

  6. #6

    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Quote Originally Posted by Scutarii View Post
    I vote B) as well, and welcome back Dictatorfish! I remember your Scythian AAR, it was great but you ran over the AI nations really easily, no challenge for you.

    Don't give the Ptolemies time to build up, they start weak and thats how a good Seleucids king likes to keep them.

    And great idea to do a TSE AAR, I've never seen one, and avoid playing them, but you may convince me to start one.
    Thanks for the "welcome back" and it's good to see a familiar... err, username.

    Actually, the reason why I decided that I would do a TSE AAR (and am finally going to do it) is while I was doing the Scythia AAR someone else (can't remember who - sorry) was doing their own TSE AAR and were wiped out. I thought it would be fun to take up the challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier View Post
    Dictatorfish you could've added your own poll using the forum tools.

    Good to have you back!
    I know that I can start a poll, but I wasn't sure if I would be able to change it at a later date or not. Rather than risk the thread forever displaying an out-of-date poll, I left it out. In any case, I prefer getting comments on the decision - it would help me add a few names to the purpurati.

  7. #7
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Well, instead of doing a formal poll (ie: counting vote) you could just encourage people to comment and follow there advice, or at least the most consistently supplied advice. Don't necessarily give 'option A' or 'option B' just say at the end 'I was thinking of' and state your ideas for options in the campaign. I've never seen an RTW AAR like this but it worked great in some of the Civilization IV campaigns I've read about. Any way you decide to do it, I'm there.



  8. #8
    Unknown Soldier's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Yeah, I'll be the annoying mad senator/advisor who has hare brained schemes and argues against common sense.

    ...the Parthians have overrun our eastern border....

    *Senator Unknown nips out and returns wearing ethnic parthian outfit*

    "What of it? All hail Zaroster or whoever, death to the infidels!"

    Oh our new Masters are not here yet - damn!

    Fix the problem, not the blame!

    XGM Diplomacy AAR - intelligence and voting
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...24#post3680924 :hmmm:

  9. #9
    TM Is Back's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Lolzzz

    Us got an attack again

  10. #10

    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    It seems that Unknown Soldier is looking to play the part of Montias Pythones, err?

    Anyway, I played a bit last night and I think I may well be able to do an early update. I went with option b) as voted by you guys, so it's just a case of getting the report written up and images uploaded. I just need to find the time. *is currently at work, but is owner so can't get fired*

  11. #11

    Icon14 Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    The great King Antiochides carefully seated himself onto his throne with the aid of his servants. Resting his aged body against the seat back, he spoke in a slow and deliberate manner to his royal council, the purpurati.

    "Loyal friends, brothers and trusted advisers, it will not be news to any of you that our war with the House of Ptolemy has been raging for many years. However, there have been no major engagements by either of our nations for nearly a decade. We have recently made peace with our Macedonian cousins. I wonder if it is time we discussed a union of peace with our Ptolemaic neighbours?"
    Every member in the council glanced at one another in shock and nerves. The elderly king broke into a toothy grin.
    "I may be old and nearing my time, but my mind hasn't grown that soft yet. No, I know that the 'gypoes are bound to be up to no good and, by damn, we'll be ready for them even at their worst." A number of seasoned captains also broke into grins on hearing such crude language from their king (for a king); the aristocrats present were less impressed. "Peaceful years or not, we are at war and there's no mistaking that. Our friends inform us that there is much activity south of our borders and, like it or not, there will soon be bloodshed."

    The council chamber was filled with discussion and excited chatter. One captain stood to address the table.
    "Your majesty, in this brief period of calm, let us take the initiative. Let them defend against our forces. Surely the best defence is the offence." The king waved his hand and beckoned the young captain to take seat.
    "Yes, yes, it has occurred to me. However, it is also clear to me that we are far better positioned to defend ourselves. We have a number of cities which are capable of raising an army to launch a counter attack..." The king was cut off by another captain, this time a once Iberian mercenary who had quickly risen through the ranks.
    "My apologies, your majesty, but I do agree with the call to attack. Reports state that the Ptolemaic armies will require time to build up; they are currently weak and that is how any good Seleucid should keep them."

    The king smiled as no one in the chamber disagreed with the notion. He signalled his servant over.
    "Please call in Archelaos, his chance to prove himself seems to have arrived..."

    Click to view content: 

    It had been 2 years since Archelaos's acceptance into the royal family. Since his adoption, he had shown promise in the arts of war, but never given the opportunity to prove himself. During those two years, under the tutor of King Antiochides himself, his mastery of the theory of strategy and tactics was as sharp as anyone. But only the theory.

    Marching South, with a decent sized army and with his friend Antaios riding beside him, he had only come across a small skirmish Ptolemaic army and rebel forces - nothing worthy to test his talents. Due to a delay in awaiting the return of a unit of elephants from Cilicia, his army had only just made it into Ptolemaic territory by the end of the Winter season.

    As Spring approached, early one cold morning, Archelaos was awakened by the sound of trumpet. Leaping out from his bed, he covered himself just in time when Antaios burst into his tent.

    "An attack?" Archelaos asked as he hurriedly threw on his gear.
    "Ptolemaic army spotted in the South. Big one too, from the sounds of it," Antaios said excitedly, throwing Archelaos his helmet.
    "And the men..."
    "All ready and just as excited as you are. Sir." Antaios threw a mockingly perfect salute. Archelaos grinned to his friend and lead them out of the tent.
    "Well, let's hope our Ptolemaic friends won't disappoint them, then."





    Archelaos maintained a typical Macedonian line of phalangites, with his thureophoroi kept behind and himself at the rear centre. Knowing that his enemy far outnumbered his own forces, he aimed to strike quickly at the left half of the enemy's line of infantry while his war elephants - on the left flank - would divert the enemy's right half away. The cavalry were placed under the command of General Antaios on the right flank.

    As the battle neared, Antaios manoevoured his cavalry to the far right in an attempt to lure the enemy infantry away from the main conflict.





    As the Seleucid line finally moved into their positions, Archelaos gave his first order.
    "Close up on the enemy! Double time! Hit them hard, hit them fast, give them no time to respond!"



    As the Seleucid phalangites sprinted at the Ptolemaic's left wing, Archelaos ordered for the phalangites to enter phalanx formation with nigh perfect timing and soon the true, hard battle was underway.



    Very quickly, the first indications of how badly outnumbered the Seleucid army was came about as Ptolemaic spearmen quickly outflanked the phalangites on the right.



    Instantly realising the dire situation, Antaios ordered an about turn and charged into the rear of the flanking units. The poorly trained Ptolemaic soldiers quickly panicked at the sudden counter-attack and were routed.



    On the left flank, the war elephants charged into the thin line of Ptolemaic infantry, tossing men wildly into the air, throwing the right wing of the Ptolemaic army into disarray.




    In just one charge, the war elephants had reduced the entire right wing of the Ptolemaic army into a disorganised shamble.



    However, it was on the left flank of the infantry where Archelaos realised his first true mistake and one to be learned on the battlefield. In true textbook style, he had strengthened the centre of his phalangite line, failing to realise that - because of his initial strategy - this would mean his left flank would come into direct contact with the Ptolemaic's best infantry.

    As the Ptolemaic army's own phalangite units closed upon the left flank of the Seleucid infantry, the thureophoroi threw their javalins in a bid to slow the advance.



    However, no matter how many javalins were thrown, contact was inevitable and soon, the Seleucid infantry's left flank was surrounded by Ptolemaic phalangites.



    Archelaos ordered the thureophoroi to engage the enemy phalangites in order to buy time...



    ... time for Archelaos's runner to direct the war elephants towards their new target...



    ... and their impact was immediate and absolute!



    At the same time, Antaios - circling his way behind the Ptolemaic lines - had also recognised the danger and charged with his cavalry. Archelaos, not noticing the additional being directed to this position due to the wall of men, also charged with his own unit of bodyguards.

    The combination of the elephants and two cavalry charges decimated the Ptolemaic numbers and morale, and chaos erupted as Egyptians attempted to flee in all directions from men and beast.



    Despite the successes of the destruction of the Ptolemaic flanks, there was still hard fighting in the centre. Early in the battle, the Ptolemaic general had bravely charged his own unit of bodyguards into the Seleucid pikes, punching a hole the phalangites never did fully recover from. Even during the build up to the dramatic events of the joint cavalry and elephant charge on the left flank, the Ptolemaic general was still leading by example, engaging with the Seleucid phalangites whenever the opportunity arose.



    The result was a complete disarray and lack of formation in the Seleucid line which the Ptolemaic infantry were more than happy to take advantage of.



    Eventually, Archelaos - reunited with Antaios - trapped the Ptolemaic general between lines of phalangites and charged.




    The Ptolemaic general was ultimately isolated from his bodyguards and slain.





    With the death of their general, all remaining Ptolemaic resistance evaporated and fled to the hills. While, the battle was finally over, the battlefield would be forever littered by the bones and belongings of those who died that day.








    There were a call for great celebrations that night after the battle. As night fell, the Seleucids who took part in the battle did not sleep - there was much singing and feasting. And obviously much drinking.

    The celebrations lasted long into the night. Archelaos, a truly military man, choice not to join in the celebrations but to keep watch in case of a counter attack (much to the dismay of his accompanying bodyguards). But even Archelaos felt estatic by the day's events. It was his first major engagement and a truly decisive victory. A lot was learnt. However, we was especially thankful for Antaios's masterful command of the cavalry. Twice they saved the Seleucid forces from being outflanked and personally took part in the chase and killing of the Ptolemaic general.

    As the more sober of the Seleucids woke to take their turn on watch, Archelaos returned to his tent. Antaios was already inside waiting.

    "Antaios, I want to thank you so..."
    "Here, read this," Antaios interrupted, handing Archelaos an open letter. "I did not want the men to know, What with the high spirits."


    "Are you sure this is..."
    "Royal seal," Antaios replied, not waiting for the end of the question.
    "But he looked fine when we last spoke to him."
    "They say that there's nothing suspicious and he likely died of old age."
    "But you don't think so?"
    "... I don't know."
    "... Assassination?"
    Antaios shrugged. "I'm not much for conspiracy theories. However, I'm a soldier and a general; for me, this is simply something I believe we should keep to ourselves as best as we can. With morale so high amongst the men, I'd say it would be silly to let something like this get out too quickly." Antaios stood up to leave.

    As Antaios was about to exit the tent, he turned with a smile. "By the way, at the request of the king before he died, he requested that you be made the new faction heir upon his death. You are now second in line for the throne." Antaios bowed a mockingly perfect bow. "Goodnight. Your Highness," and left.
    I took a fair few screenshots in this, but I realise that this could mean that it'll be rather slow to load for some people (and really kills the thread for people like myself who like to browse on their phones). I tried to make the images around 100kb in size - if that's too big, let me know and I'll adjust it for future updates. Also, I used the whole "source" tags thing because that seemed to help in my previous AAR.

    Now to the opinions of the purpurati:
    Sidon is still fairly well defended and will take 6 turns of siege before breaking. In the mean time, my spy has detected at least 2 medium sized Ptolemaic armies and two smaller Ptolemaic armies making their way from the Nile Delta to Hierosolyma. Men are being trained in both Antioch and Damascus, so restrengthening of Archelaos's army shouldn't be too difficult. My idea at the moment is to leave Sidon for now, restrengthen the army from the two forementioned cities and engage with the Ptolemaic armies heading north. Long term is to form two armies, lead by Archelaos and Antiaos respectively to take out both Sidon and Hierosolyma at the same time, while a third raised in the Anatolian peninsula (Asia Minor) will take out Side and then Salamis.

    That's the West side of my Empire for now. In the East, I am slowly moving troops North in preparation for the expected attack by the Parthians and/or Bactrians - I'm fairly confident that the lands South-East in my empire are safe for now.

    So, direct input please: beseige the Ptolemaics now or later? All comments welcome.
    Last edited by Dictatorfish; July 26, 2008 at 07:18 AM. Reason: Correcting typos and stuff

  12. #12
    TM Is Back's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Besiege later but DON't leave the Ptolomaic lands. Search for a good position and make camp their. Send the almost entire garrisson from Antioch to the army and wait for the ptolomies to attack you hill up. That should be a great enough advantace for your troops to easilly deafeat 3 stacks.

  13. #13
    Unknown Soldier's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    You should grab side and salamis at the start! Its the classic opening move.

    Salamis then side then ship back to antioch.

    It gives your ecconomy such a boost and cripples the Ptolomy war machine.

    Build trade temples all over at 280 a pop its all good and you have a 15000 per turn ecconomy.

    Damn I'm talking sense not nonsense

    Fix the problem, not the blame!

    XGM Diplomacy AAR - intelligence and voting
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...24#post3680924 :hmmm:

  14. #14
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Great update dictatorfish: I would hang around outside of Sidon, but not close enough the garrison will engage you upon an army attacking you. Reinforce Aristo-whatever whenever you have spare troops, and just destroy each field army you see, and besiege after a couple armies are dead.



  15. #15

    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Thanks for the suggestions, but with so many of them it looks like we'll have to go with a vote after all.

    As for the East and West of the Empire, how should we go abouts with those? At the moment, I'm simply concentrating on increasing trade and social stability (i.e. "happiness" of the population). The Eastern settlements are so undeveloped - and thus of low strategic value - that I'm happy to simply improve what we have already. I've also raised a similar army to Archelaos's in the area (no elephants, though ) just in case the Parthians or Bactrians decide they want a piece. However, the Western cities are fairly well developed already, so I'm considering placing a little more of Asia Minor under Seleucid ownership.

    Also, what do you guys think of the writing style. It takes longer to write than a direct report of my actions, but hopefully it adds a little more entertainment value for the reader. As the readers, do you consider it time well spent or should I do just as well writing up direct reports. For me, both have their advantages, so I don't really mind either.

  16. #16
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    I like your writing how it is now. It adds more flavour to the report than just a direct telling.

    I agree with your strategies. Your aim should be to expand in the west right now, as the cities are richer, while defending and counterattacking and building up in the east. Although, if you have a full stack out there, consider striking at the Parthians capital and surrounding cities, it will cripple them so you don't have to deal with the purple horse archers of death and destruction and strategies involving running circles around you until you die type of things.



  17. #17

    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Dictatorfish, great start. The number of pics is just right, do not worry: one can follow the course of the battle and "witness" the most important events; text and pics complement each other very well. I trully enjoyed reading the description of the battle with Ptolemies. Clear victory indeed. Btw, great use of elephants: 409 kills (best of all units) and no casualties. Very cool!
    I am not an expert in playing TSE, so no sound strategies from my side. One tip though, or reminder perhaps: early in the game try to go for settlements having the same culture. You can charge your new settlements and get money immediately, and you do not waste maney/people for garrison duty and/or keeping order. So, you could be more agressive in taking Greek cities in Asia Minor and also Rhodos, rather than pushing too actively in the east. Just my 2 cents. Good luck! ME

  18. #18

    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Equitum View Post
    Btw, great use of elephants: 409 kills (best of all units) and no casualties. Very cool!
    Thanks very much. I was actually rather more impressed by Cohort IX, the levy phalangites. It's not often that I see low grade, men-of-the-line infantry achieve a 165:1 kill/death ratio. I believe they were the unit on the right flank and and the 6 casualties (of whom 4 recovered) would have been a result of the early flank attack by the Ptolemiac levy spearmen. The other phalangite units either took relatively heavy casualties or played little part other than simply holding the line.

    Unfortunately I didn't take any screenies for it - and in hindsight I should have - but the Ptolemiac units who were led away by Antiaos during the opening movements of the battle eventually made their way back to the battle (albeit, slowly) and the IXth cohort did a great job holding them back from the main battle, resulting in their fantastic kill/death ratio. I didn't realise how well they were doing (sorry guys for taking you for granted) until I saw the final battle statistics.

    Anyway, thanks for all the advice, everyone. I actually played a bit last night, so I may have an update for later on today if I can get myself motivated to write it all out tonight. The problem with me is that I can think up of the whole thing in my head and it seems really great, but when I try to put it to paper (or type it to screen, as it may well be nowadays) it takes too long and never seems as good as what I first imagined. But I'll keep at it.

    Watch this space!

  19. #19
    TM Is Back's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Today :p My day only has 3.15 hours left.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Will of the Purpurati - An Interactive Seleucid Empire AAR

    Pedent. Fine, technically today - as being the 24 hour period known as 25th July 2008 - will be over in about 3 hours and 45 minutes myself. However, today - as being the approx. 24 hours between me going to bed and the next time I go to bed - will last quite a bit longer, me thinks. The definition I use in this forum and in everyday life is the latter.

    ATTN: Quick response needed - do you guys want this AAR focused on just Egypt for now or for all of the events of the Empire? Either way is cool with me (same work in, same work out in my book), but obviously you can expect to see slower development of this campaign if you want an update for the events for more locations.

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