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Thread: Golden Ages : Total War.1st Preview is released!!!

  1. #101
    Icedie El Guaraní's Avatar Margmiðlunarskólinn
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    the biggest ones , wessex, mercia, northumbria, Fortrui, Innse Gael, federation of strachclyde maybe not , at least one Irish maybe Ui Neil, or Kingdom of Dal riada, some britons , kingdom of Gwynedd, kingdom of Dumnonia and the viking where mostly the norse and the danes so i´ll just refer to then as the norsemen kingdom of Norðmenn. that would include danes and norse.
    So what do you guys think should we include?
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  2. #102
    Giorgios's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Ok then, which 4 do you suggest?
    And looking at maps, there were only 2 significant factions in 10th century Spain anyway, and only the East Frankish Kingdom in what would evolve into the Holy Roman Empire...

  3. #103
    Icedie El Guaraní's Avatar Margmiðlunarskólinn
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Quote Originally Posted by KoRnflakes View Post
    5 Factions !!!
    I would say 4+vicings
    we need more in spain (only 2 factions) and germany (only 1 faction)
    Yeah i would say
    - the Kingdom of Fortrui but definatly ALBA
    -The kingdom of Gwynedd(wales)
    -Kingdom of the Saxons
    and The Norse.
    Last edited by Icedie El Guaraní; August 02, 2008 at 06:06 PM.
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  4. #104
    KoRnflakes's Avatar Kitani
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    6 factions on the british isles are too much

    Spain :
    1. Ummayads
    2. Asturias
    3. Galicia
    Germany :
    1. East Frankish Empire
    2. Moravia
    3. Lotharingia
    Danke King Kong dass ich Third Age ab meinem Geburtstag zocken kann

  5. #105
    Giorgios's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Slow down... we don't want to make too much work for ourselves

    I will say a tentative yes to Moravia... but I think we shouldn't expand the faction list until we get more skinners and modellers onboard. We don't want to have a super-ambitious mod that goes down the toilet due to lack of work, do we?

  6. #106
    Icedie El Guaraní's Avatar Margmiðlunarskólinn
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...


    no worries this some example, so people may still suggest i have not much experience as researcher but this is what i came up with.
    the upper one in blue sky is fortrui, violet is Norse, pink wessex, orange gwynedd, the light brown ui neil or dal riada
    some info about wessex and why its much bigger than it suppose to
    The unification of England and the Earldom of Wessex

    After the invasions of the 890s Wessex and English Mercia continued to be attacked by the Danish settlers in England and by small Danish raiding forces from overseas, but these incursions were usually defeated, while there were no further major invasions from the continent. The balance of power tipped steadily in favour of the English. In 911 Ealdorman Aethelred died, leaving his widow, Alfred's daughter Aethelflaed, in charge of Mercia. Alfred's son and successor Edward the Elder, then transferred London, Oxford and the surrounding area, probably including Middlesex, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire, from Mercia to Wessex. Between 913 and 918 a series of English offensives overwhelmed the Danes of Mercia and East Anglia, bringing all of England south of the Humber under Edward's power. In 918 Aethelflaed died and Edward took over direct control of Mercia, extinguishing what remained of its independence and ensuring that thenceforth there would be only one Kingdom of the English. In 927 Edward's successor Athelstan conquered Northumbria, bringing the whole of England under one ruler for the first time. The Kingdom of Wessex had thus been transformed into the Kingdom of England.

    Although Wessex had now effectively been subsumed into the larger kingdom which its expansion had created, like the other former kingdoms it continued for a time to have a distinct identity which periodically found renewed political expression. After the death of King Eadred in 955, England was divided between his two sons, with the elder Edwy ruling in Wessex while Mercia passed to his younger brother Edgar. However, in 959 Edwy died and the whole of England came under Edgar's control.

    After the Danish conquest of England, and the coronation of Canute the Great, in 1016, England's former kingdoms were to become the earldoms of Mercia, East Anglia, and Northumbria. Canute initially saw to the administration of Wessex personally, although within a few years he had made an earldom of Wessex too, for his English henchman Godwin. For almost fifty years the vastly wealthy holders of this earldom, first Godwin and then his son Harold, were the most powerful force in English politics after the king. Finally, on the death of Edward the Confessor in 1066, Harold was to be king, and the earldom of Wessex once again in cognate with the crown. There was no other earl of Wessex before the Norman conquest of England, and the coronation of William the Conqueror, in 1066, who soon did away with the great earldoms of the late Anglo-Saxon period when he brought in continental institutions. This marks the end of Wessex as an official entity.
    The Norse : 900AD the King of Hardanger was well established in Kinsarvik. This in spite of Harald Haarfager who united most of Norway under his rule. Legend has it that the king at this time was captured by the English while on a Viking raid and imprisoned in a tower. A special longship was prepared which was painted white on one side, and black on the other. The ship was sailed to the tower with the white side showing, the king was rescued, on the return trip the black side of the ship was visible which confused the English who were in pursuit. There is a variation to the Norse saga which claims that the rowers on one side of the ship had aliegance to a leader who used white shields (which were displayed on the side of the ship), while the rowers on the other side had a different leader and black shields, but both groups cooperated for the rescue of the king.

    The kingdoms of Norway entered into a series of wars with Sweden around 1000AD. At this time many Vikings fled to Iceland. In 1013 Olaf II of Norway became king and converted to Christianity. The conversion was not uncontroversial, and Olaf II was replaced by Canute the Great. Even so the wooden Stave churchs that were being built were easy to burn down by those who did not want to give up their Viking ways. The Vikings of Kinsarvik were also in alliance with their sami neighbors and fellow pagans. After a series of Viking defeats the Christian forces established a presence in Kinsarvik


    The welsh:This tenacious survival by the Romano-Britons and their descendants in the western kingdoms was to become the foundation of what we now know as Wales. With the loss of the lowlands, England's kingdoms of Mercia and Northumbria, and later Wessex, wrestled with Powys, Gwent, and Gwynedd to define the frontier between the two peoples.

    Having lost much of the West Midlands to Mercia in the sixth and early seventh centuries, a resurgent late-seventh-century Powys checked Mercian advancement. Aethelbald of Mercia, looking to defend recently acquired lands, had built Wat's Dyke. According to John Davies, this endeavour may have been with Powys king Elisedd ap Gwylog's own agreement, however, for this boundary, extending north from the valley of the River Severn to the Dee estuary, gave Oswestry (Welsh: Croesoswallt) to Powys.[citation needed] King Offa of Mercia seems to have continued this consultative initiative when he created a larger earthwork, now known as Offa's Dyke (Welsh: Clawdd Offa). Davies wrote of Cyril Fox's study of Offa's Dyke:

    In the planning of it, there was a degree of consultation with the kings of Powys and Gwent. On the Long Mountain near Trelystan, the dyke veers to the east, leaving the fertile slopes in the hands of the Welsh; near Rhiwabod, it was designed to ensure that Cadell ap Brochwel retained possession of the Fortress of Penygadden." And for Gwent Offa had the dyke built "on the eastern crest of the gorge, clearly with the intention of recognizing that the River Wye and its traffic belonged to the kingdom of Gwent.

    Offa's Dyke largely remained the frontier between the Welsh and English, though the Welsh would recover by the 12th century the area between the Dee and the Conwy known then as the Perfeddwlad. By the eighth century, the eastern borders with the Anglo-Saxons had broadly been set.

    Following the successful examples of Cornwall in 722 and Brittany in 865, the Britons of Wales made their peace with the Vikings and asked the Norsemen to help the Britons fight the Anglo-Saxons of Mercia to prevent an Anglo-Saxon conquest of Wales. In 878 AD the Britons of Wales unified with the Vikings of Denmark to destroy an Anglo-Saxon army of Mercians. Like Cornwall in 722, this decisive defeating of the Saxons gave Wales some decades of peace from Anglo-Saxon attack. In 1063, the Welsh prince Gruffydd ap Llywelyn made an alliance with Norwegian Vikings against Mercia which, as in 878 AD was successful, and the Saxons of Mercia defeated. As with Cornwall and Brittany, Viking aggression towards the Saxons/Franks ended any chance of the Anglo-Saxons/Franks conquering their Celtic neighbours.From the year 800 onwards, a series of dynastic marriages led to Rhodri Mawr's (r. 844-877) inheritance of Gwynedd and Powys. His sons in turn would found three principal dynasties (Aberffraw for Gwynedd, Dinefwr for Deheubarth, and Mathrafal for Powys), each competing for hegemony over the others. Rhodri's grandson Hywel Dda (r.900-950) founded Deheubarth out of his maternal and paternal inheritances of Dyfed and Seisyllwg, ousted the Aberffraw dynasty from Gwynedd and Powys, and codified Welsh law in 930, finally going on a pilgrimage to Rome (and allegedly having the Law Codes blessed by the Pope). Maredudd ab Owain (r.986-999) of Deheubarth (Hywel's grandson) would, (again) temporarily oust the Aberffraw line from control of Gwynedd and Powys. Maredudd's great-grandson (through his daughter Princess Angharad) Gruffydd ap Llywelyn (r.1039-1063) would conquer his cousins' realms from his base in Powys, and even extend his authority into England.
    Last edited by Icedie El Guaraní; August 02, 2008 at 06:28 PM.
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  7. #107
    Kallum's Avatar I win, you lose!
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgios View Post
    OK then, you can do both of these factions for now, if that's OK with you? Put it on your sig!

    Caliphate of Cordoba was indeed ruled by the Ummayads from 756 until 1031. It became a true Caliphate only in 929AD, so may be known as Emirate of Cordoba in the mod, who knows.

    Fatimids arose in 909AD in modern Tunisia, and conquered the Egyptian Tulunids in 969, the same year the Romans retook Antioch.

    And finally, welcome to the team!
    ty glad to be on board pm me if you need any thing, you do know that I only collect info right? I don't have any experience as a skinner of modeler
    Last edited by Kallum; August 02, 2008 at 07:47 PM.
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  8. #108
    Plonkdog's Avatar Chinen
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    This is the mod leader of vll, confirming Icedie's choices.

    Wessex - Anglo-Saxon
    Fortriu - Pictish
    Gwynedd - Brithon
    Ui Neill - Irish

    would be best, as they were the most powerful. If the start date is after 1000, then it would be better to replace fortriu with Alba, and give them all of Scotland (excepting Orkneys [Vikings])

    If you need more info on these factions then go through the vll thread http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154102 or pm me, Icedie, or Mackios
    Dh'aindeoin co'theireadh e - Gainsay Who Dare

  9. #109
    Giorgios's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Yes Kallum I am aware you have no modding skills, but that's all right-- nor do I!

    And the mod starts in 900AD, so the four listed by Plonkdog look like they will be our four factions on the British Isles. The others can be represented by rebels.

    I'm away for a couple of days now, keep the thread alive people! Kornflakes and Icedie are in charge!

  10. #110
    Icedie El Guaraní's Avatar Margmiðlunarskólinn
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    + viking that makes it 5 but they will ony have a few region in the British isle, some in the Germanic region and Norway. sounds fair to me!!
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  11. #111
    gogo t's Avatar BULGARIAN
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    What happend with the Russ and Tzardoms teams ?
    I'm gald you like my idea for mod name
    MORAL

  12. #112
    Kallum's Avatar I win, you lose!
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Okay I have found some information about the Western Frankish kingdom. What kind of information should I be looking for btw? And I thought of an idea to let the feodal system come to it's right. Just as in DLV you can gain the ancillaries of being duke of let's say Marseille(to give an exemple), and just as in DLV this ancilllaries gives a tax bonus income plus happines or something, but what about that only the Duke of marseille can train the strongest units in Marseille just as the duke of Paris is the only one who can create the strongest units in Paris, But the faction leader can do this everywhere.

    What do you think of that?

    some pics I have found

    the first king of West frankish kingdom Charles the bald:



    All the Frankish kingdoms after the Treaty of Verdun in 843 AD



    Last edited by Kallum; August 03, 2008 at 08:29 AM.
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    The work has been done, the trilogy is completed or has it?

  13. #113
    KoRnflakes's Avatar Kitani
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    But then you can`t use any general in battle
    who should train the strong units in the next city if the general fight against an enemy army ?
    Danke King Kong dass ich Third Age ab meinem Geburtstag zocken kann

  14. #114
    Kallum's Avatar I win, you lose!
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Quote Originally Posted by KoRnflakes View Post
    But then you can`t use any general in battle
    who should train the strong units in the next city if the general fight against an enemy army ?
    the king It was the job of the landlords to give the king men when he went on campaign
    Carl von Dobeln's son
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    The work has been done, the trilogy is completed or has it?

  15. #115
    KoRnflakes's Avatar Kitani
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    but if a the king is on campign (for example in Italy)
    and the landlord of the most progressive castle in the empire has to fight in the Pyrenees against the muslims nobody can train the best units to support the king in italy

    or

    you havn`t enough family members for all cities and castles, whats then ?
    Danke King Kong dass ich Third Age ab meinem Geburtstag zocken kann

  16. #116
    Kallum's Avatar I win, you lose!
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Quote Originally Posted by KoRnflakes View Post
    but if a the king is on campign (for example in Italy)
    and the landlord of the most progressive castle in the empire has to fight in the Pyrenees against the muslims nobody can train the best units to support the king in italy

    or

    you havn`t enough family members for all cities and castles, whats then ?
    Then you make sure that some family members hold more grounds, I mean if you play DLV or BC some family members of mine did get more titles, Put the men in the recruitment que then go the next city/castle and train there. Or you retreat the king(what happenend quite often) when the situation becomes so dangerous that the king is needed to fight, and the king can retrain new strong units from his conquests in Italy for he's landholder of his conquests in Italy.

    You can also make captains achieve the rank of general faster and then you give them the titles
    Last edited by Kallum; August 03, 2008 at 09:35 AM.
    Carl von Dobeln's son
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    The work has been done, the trilogy is completed or has it?

  17. #117
    Giorgios's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    I'm back, thanks for your research Kallum +rep

    Neither the Rus or Tsardoms teams have responded to my emails, however Icefrisco from "Das Heilige Römische Reich" has expressed an interest in helping us out...

    Any interest from the German forum?

  18. #118
    Kallum's Avatar I win, you lose!
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Karolingian armies

    Under Charlemagne the great many wars were fought. The Franks were a people of old who fought at foot. The frankish kings ordered their free men to serve in their armies and to supply their own equipment. Under Charlemagne wars were fought with the Arabic moors of Spain and the slavic Avars, two nations who fought horse wise usually, to achieve victories a change in warfare was needed and under Charles Martel(grandfather of Charlemange if I remember correctly) the first ideas became realised of what we now call knights. These heavy horsemen were usually very rich people as the Franks were still obeyed to buy their own armor, weapons and in this case their horse, something what wasn't cheap

    The horsemen were armed with chainmail, lance and sword, the infantry were armed with swords(only for the rich and wealthy) or axes. They still used the fransisca throwing axe, The poorer people of the army were primitevely armed(spears and such) and their job was to protect the civitas and the lands of the king and land lord. The bisshops also played a part in the armies of Charlemagne in the same way as Feodal lords. Their job was to select a number of soldiers and to lead and join them in to battle. These soldiers were usually free farmers and they were called upon when the need for men was high. Still these armies were capable of attackin the Moors and Avars, against the Vikings these armies didn't had a chance. After the wars these men were send back to their farms just as the armies of the Roman republic, however after increased intensitivety of the Viking raids these men became standing armies

    The vikings were highly mobile and the royal armies were never able to catch up with them and so the The vikings could without resistance sail up the rivers of the Loire, Rhine and other and so they could plunder the surrounding lands. However in 860 ad Charles the Bald created strong fortications at strategic positions, these fortifications were able to hold the Viking raids and by doing this driving them back to their homeland



    As you can see in the picture large 2 handed swords a typical weapon for the wealthy, the soldiers were armoured with chain mail and they had no metal helmet just a chain mail cap
    Last edited by Kallum; August 05, 2008 at 03:28 PM.
    Carl von Dobeln's son
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    The work has been done, the trilogy is completed or has it?

  19. #119
    KoRnflakes's Avatar Kitani
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgios View Post
    I'm back, thanks for your research Kallum +rep

    Neither the Rus or Tsardoms teams have responded to my emails, however Icefrisco from "Das Heilige Römische Reich" has expressed an interest in helping us out...

    Any interest from the German forum?
    yes, some guys want to help us
    Danke King Kong dass ich Third Age ab meinem Geburtstag zocken kann

  20. #120
    Giorgios's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: The medieval Roman Empire's golden era...

    Quote Originally Posted by KoRnflakes View Post
    yes, some guys want to help us
    Sounds good! With what? Modders would be great, but researchers will do just fine....
    Icefrisco is currently researching the Magyars, and has said he will make us a map when his PC is working properly again...
    Here is an early, and incomplete idea of mine about map regions, based on information from Euratlas and Wikipedia. Regions are the thick black lines, if you failed to guess...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails golden ages.jpg  

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