View Poll Results: Weakest Faction?

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  • Kingdom of Jerusalem

    7 4.83%
  • Eastern Roman Empire

    9 6.21%
  • Ayyubid Sultanate

    3 2.07%
  • Turkish Sultanate

    13 8.97%
  • Kingdom of Armenia

    7 4.83%
  • Kingdom of Makuria

    40 27.59%
  • Kypchak Confederacy

    7 4.83%
  • Kingdom of Georgia

    4 2.76%
  • Abbasid Caliphate

    2 1.38%
  • Imamate of Oman

    42 28.97%
  • Khwaresm Shah

    6 4.14%
  • Great Seljuks

    11 7.59%
  • Sultanate of Ghazni

    6 4.14%
  • Ghorid Sultanate

    3 2.07%
  • Malikate of Sindh

    37 25.52%
  • Solanki Rajputs

    16 11.03%
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Thread: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

  1. #1
    Chilly5's Avatar Civitate
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    Default WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    As the title name suggests, which factions do you think are the weakest in BC? (and...possibly a boost needed perhaps? )

    Personally I feel that Makuria is very weak due to their lack of armour and...general strength in units in a very charge-strong armour-packing world. Their position on the campaign map does provide a lot of money though...

    The Imamate of Oman is also very weak if you ask me...just general lack of strong elite units (such as chargers)

    By far though, I dont like the way the great Seljuks are depicted as far as power. Their infantry are mediocre and their horse archers really dont compare to other factions. They have a lack of lancers and heavy cavalry. Even their Agulani are far weaker than they should be.
    The kypacks also seem kindof weak...

  2. #2
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    this mod not really The Great Seljuks is very weak


    sorry sorry I forget write "not"
    Last edited by Hunnic; July 16, 2008 at 01:54 AM.

  3. #3
    Kavhan Isbul's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    Oman - their units are the coolest, but not the best overall, and while this is surmountable, corruption and a tough position on the map combine to make sure that any expansion is halted by a weak economy and war on at least two (distant) fronts.
    However, once the corruption issue is fixed in 1.5, Oman should be easier and most likely even more fun to play with.

  4. #4
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunnic View Post
    In this mod really The Great Seljuks is very weak
    Well, considering if this mod was REALLY historical they shouldn't even be in the game I'd say they're a lot stronger than they should be

  5. #5
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    I want to differentiate between two things: a) A faction that is intentionally made weak due to historical reasons vs b) A faction that has no redeeming qualities either unit or statwise to compensate for it's weakness.

    There are many factions in BC that are 'weak' but were intentionally made so. Factions like Oman, Sindh, Makuria are weak because they were never historical players in the mod's time period and don't get as many impressive units as say the Ayyubids, Romans or Khwarezm. That sort of 'weakness' is not something we will 'fix' since it was intentional to begin with, however the latter (b) type of weakness is something we might be interested in balancing out at least via stats.
    Last edited by Miraj; July 15, 2008 at 07:50 PM.

  6. #6
    Chilly5's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    Well didnt the seljuks manage to take over half of the middle east? That being Modern Turkey, Iraq, Iran...and more...they must have been some kind of strong military power?

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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
    Well didnt the seljuks manage to take over half of the middle east? That being Modern Turkey, Iraq, Iran...and more...they must have been some kind of strong military power?
    Yes. But I think John is pointing to the fact that by 1174 the Great Seljuks had been split up to the point of non-existence. Like Ghazni, we sort of 'revived' this faction by simply conceptualizing their Iranian & Azeri successor states as one entity.

  8. #8
    eggthief's Avatar Kamikaze
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    But how could the Sindh have been so weak at that time? They had the perfect combination of Indian and Eastern warfare . Cant Imagine someone actually losing with those.

  9. #9
    Chilly5's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Miraj View Post
    I want to differentiate between two things: a) A faction that is intentionally made weak due to historical reasons vs b) A faction that has no redeeming qualities either unit or statwise to compensate for it's weakness.

    There are many factions in BC that are 'weak' but were intentionally made so. Factions like Oman, Sindh, Makuria are weak because they were never historical players in the mod's time period and don't get as many impressive units as say the Ayyubids, Romans or Khwarezm. That sort of 'weakness' is not something we will 'fix' since it was intentional to begin with, however the latter (b) type of weakness is something we might be interested in balancing out at least via stats.
    I will argue that Total war games are all about "rewriting history" and I always enjoy playing the underdogs and helping them rise to a level they've never experienced in real life. So the "what if" game must be played...What if Oman did take over the entire Arabian peninsula and then went on to take over the whole of India? Obviously they would have made use of a military machine more powerful than what they had indigenously used. But of course, there's not much I can do about the matter and the way this game has been done so far is already beyond epic.

    @eggthief- I dont feel that the Sindh are weak at all? They have intense hybrid archers, Kshtatriyas and Jagadirs...they arnt the strongest but I dont see how they could be weak...

  10. #10
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
    I will argue that Total war games are all about "rewriting history" and I always enjoy playing the underdogs and helping them rise to a level they've never experienced in real life.
    I think you'll find that the BC team agrees with you wholeheartedly. Remember that Makuria, Sindh and Oman were never supposed to even be in BC at all. We included them precisely to let players "rewrite history" and to add more richness to the cultural makeup of the map. It's still possible to win with these factions - and will be even moreso with the improved 1.5 stats and the new regional units/auxillia system - it's just very tough.

  11. #11
    Chief Astook's Avatar Kajiwara
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    it also makes it interesting when you get a campaign where by some off chance a weak faction somehow overpowers a strong one, ive seen makuria become a world power before.
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  12. #12
    anaztazioch's Avatar Suguchi
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    Makuria are not weak. I made custom battles (Normal or VH dont remember).
    Abbyssian champ won over mansapa
    almost highest tier sword was "square" with almost highest Georgian tier sword.
    Bambus maceman barelly weaker than Georgian weakest(?) swordsman.

    MAkurian longbowman OWNED Mansapa archers inr anged without flaming or spread formations (killed like 8 before they got close to Makurians to shot), but lost in melee.
    Longbow lost to other Georgian archers.

    strongest javnelin won vs Mansapa.

    Makurian spearman was square, but eventually lost vs strongest spearman of Georgia. (Makurians decided to flee earlier)

    Camel cav won vs all exept Mansapa lancers.

    Other units in Makuria dont deserve to be mentioned :shakeshead:
    Last edited by anaztazioch; July 15, 2008 at 10:02 PM.

  13. #13
    Centurio Primus Pilus
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    Quote Originally Posted by eggthief View Post
    But how could the Sindh have been so weak at that time? They had the perfect combination of Indian and Eastern warfare . Cant Imagine someone actually losing with those.
    It could have been due to any number of reasons which I don't really know, but I think Sindh didn't do too poorly for itself - Since the Soomro took over replacing the Arab-based dynasties around 900-1000, they remained independent (albeit suffering a sacking from Ghazni that made them shift their capital eastward) until I think the mid 13th century, possibly the 14th when they were conquered by the Delhi Sultanate.

    But one reason is probably that India has always suffered from deep political infighting and aside of occasional forays into Afghanistan has never been one especially eager for outward conquest.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    Sindh was a pretty strong state prior to the revitilization of sunni forces during the rise of the Ghaznavids (1000s) and the later Ghorids (1180s). They were actively missionizing Shiite Fatimid beliefs in western India (they were allied to the Fatimids of Egypt believe it or not!) and controlled parts of Baluchistan and up north till Lahore even.

    Mahmud of Ghazni kicked them and other Shiites out of the Punjab and exacted tributes from them. The Ghorids nominally conquered them (ie placed a puppet sindhi ruler) by the 1190s.

  15. #15
    The Noble Lord's Avatar Ba'ath Party Knight
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    1. Kingdom of Makuria
    2. Malikate of Sindh
    3. Kypchak Confederacy


    For me the weakest factions in the BC.



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  16. #16
    Keravnos's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    Ι am afraid that one of my most favorite factions, Oman is probably the weakest. Reason? Well, it is absolutely surrounded by enemies and its starting regions are not good at all.

    All of that means that it is the greatest of challenge. Bring it!
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  17. #17
    Jon Bibiluri's Avatar Wimmer
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    in my opinion, Makuria, Oman and Sindh are weaknes factions, but in the hand of human player every faction will be strong, if player have enough brains .

  18. #18
    Murakawa
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    typically, I would say that Unit weakness is not as big a deal as economic weakness. this is why Oman is so tough to play as but the Sindh are ok. the Sindh units are overrated and take too long to recruit (smething like 3 turns inbetween recruitment), but their proximity to southern india makes them easy to play as.

    the Kypchaks would be harder because of their economy, but those cavelry-archer armies are cheap and last forever.

  19. #19
    roy34543's Avatar Ninja
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    I like your avatar chilly5. Gotta love that little robot. Do you happen to use it on the mount and blade forums too?
    as for the topic the makurians and the omanites are the weakest in my opinion. just bad units.
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  20. #20
    Aoba
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    Default Re: WEAKEST FACTION IN BC

    I dont quite agree with Oman being such a weak faction. In my Oman campaign i control most of the arabian peninsula, Calula and a triangle including the Sindh lands, Shiraz and Kandahar.

    Sure the units are kind of weak, but with a good logistics and tactics you can conquer and hold new lands. Also the economy is quite good if you keep investing in it.

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