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Thread: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

  1. #121

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    About the army and weapons of Kartli

    On the status of social forces Kartli were feudal/ lords /Aznauri, Msakhuri (military service peasant), free citizens, and the Highlanders.
    The Kartli kingdom troops were the royal guards and Kartli seven Saeristavo troops, plus highlander warriors.
    The royal gurd included the Tadzreuli and royal domain warriors. Tadzreuli were elite warriors. For the first time in historical sources mention during the king Archili. (He reigned during the second half to VII and in the early VIIIth century). In King domain warriors included the royal Aznauri and Msakhuri.
    The territory of Kartli was divided by 7 Saeristavo and 1 Saspaspeto.( Saspaspeto called saeristavo controllable with commander of the troops, it was a territory of Shida Kartli/ inner Kartli). Saeristao was - Military Administrative District, Province.
    7 Saeristavo were as follows:
    1.Shorapani/Argveti (adjacent to eastern Georgia in the Likhi ridge area of West Georgia)
    2.Ujarma (Kakheti-Hereti)
    3.Samshvilde (Tashiri-Aboci)
    4.Khunani (Gardabani/Gardman)
    5.Odzrkhe (Samckhe-Achara)
    6.Cunda (Javakheti-kola-Artaani)
    7.Artanuji (Tao-Klardjeti)

    Saeristavo cheaf was Eristavi. Eristavi (Georgian: ერისთავი; literally, “head of the people”) was a Georgian feudal office, roughly equivalent to the Byzantine strategos and normally translated into English as "duke". In the Georgian aristocratic hierarchy, it was the title of the second rank after Kings and prince.Holders of the title were ex-officio commanders of a military 'banner', ruled territory Saeristavo, They commanded the troops Saerisavo.
    Saeristavo troops consisted of: Eristavi personal units / Guard = Compiled by the personal vassals - small noblemen/Aznauri and msakhuri. + living in this Saeristavo area other nobles/Aznauri, free citizens and msakhuri .

    In those days warriors Kartli had different armament:
    Nobles / Aznauri and their vassals Msakhuri were horseman warriors with heavy armor, Some had armored horses.
    Heavy weapons had the royal guard-Tadzreuli and other royal warriors.
    Msakhuri and some free citizens were equipment medium armor and weapon, some of them were light warriors.
    About how those days soldiers were armed, we know from the archaeological and historical sources.
    (Some of the archaeological material, I have shown above).

    Part of the chain mail is found on the Queen's hill, Kldeeti (two), Tagiloni, Nokalakevi, Urbnisi, Tsebelda.
    A few plate armour found on the Queen's hill.
    During the excavation found many: Swords, Axes, Spear heads, Arrow heads, shields –Boss...

    From written sources we know that: There was heavy cavalry = Torosnebi with helmets, plate armour and armored horses.
    Some heavy and medium cavarly were chain mail.
    Msaxuri, free citizens and highlanders were equipment some medium some as light warriors.


    Ujarma founded in III-IV centuries. Ujarma was one of the main royal residence. The current form fortress acquired during the king Vakhtang Gorgasali (in V century).
    The fortress consists of two parts: The Citadel and the lower fortress. At the fortress there was a church and a royal palace.
    Here are some photos:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=424576&page=5
    Last edited by daraca; August 11, 2011 at 05:20 AM.

  2. #122

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    On this map you can see the administrative division kingdom of Kartli. One Sasaspeto = S. and + 7 Saeristavo (numbers are indicated on the map) and the center / main residence, the cities Saeristavo.




    According to historical sources Samshvilde mention from IV-III century B. C. And was the center of Samshvilde saeristavo.
    The city Samshvilde has citadel (the oldest building) and city walls. Christian period the city has several churches, The most famous church was Samshvildis Sioni/ სამშვილდის სიონი. Built between 759-777 years, although the style is similar to the early church. Church size 24X24 height of 20 meters.


    Near Samshvilde was found, the settlement of the Bronze Age.

    Some photos here.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=424576&page=5
    Last edited by daraca; August 11, 2011 at 06:14 AM.

  3. #123
    Deutschland's Avatar East of Rome Mod Leader
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    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Thank you a lot for the map.. even in German!

    I wonder if these borders were still correct in the 6th century though..

  4. #124

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Deutschland

    I wonder if these borders were still correct in the 6th century though..
    Kartli in the 6th century, is added to part of the territory Hereti and Kambechani. Added territory pointed number 8.


  5. #125
    Deutschland's Avatar East of Rome Mod Leader
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    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Thank you very much! However i find it strange that armenia has annexed a part of the Sassanid empire?

  6. #126

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Deutschland

    Thank you very much! However i find it strange that armenia has annexed a part of the Sassanid empire?
    I took an early map of 250 years, and adjusted the 6th century. I showed only the borders of Kartli ... borders of other countries I have not corrected.

  7. #127
    Deutschland's Avatar East of Rome Mod Leader
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    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Ah alright thanks for your input.

  8. #128

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Daryali fortress.

    Dariali gate in history known since ancient times. Here were an important road with the south Caucasus in the northern Caucasus. This road played an important strategic role for the kingdom of Kartli and the whole Caucasus.
    kings of Kartli and later Georgian kings ably to be using this gate (and road) for their political and military objectives.
    For example:
    “Josephus Flavius (37 - about 100 AD), recounting the attack Alans in 72y. in Midia, wrote: " they (the Alans) entered into negotiations with the king Iberians/ irkants (smiths...), because he owned a passage, which king Alexander shut the iron gate. And when he opened them access, Alans, attacking a huge mass on the unsuspecting Midians, began to ravage ... country ”.
    or this
    “King Bagrat ...He called the king of Ovseti (Ossetia/ Alania)Dorgoleli with forty thousand Ovsi (Ossetians/ Alans) and under the leadership of his son, George kuropalati devastated city Gandja , captured prey immensely and sent (Dorgoleli) in his kingdom.”

    Kartli kings and later Georgian kings using allies and mercenaries from the northern Caucasus to attack the hostile south neighbors.

    The Georgians called the gate "Aragvis cary, which is Darialani"-Gate Aragvi, which name is Darialan, or so: “cary Ovsetis (Ossetian gate) which is called Darialan”.
    The highlanders of Georgia (Kartli) defended gates, for national safety was important to keep this pass.
    Masoudi (in 956.) reports: " between the kingdom of the Alans and the mountains kabh is a fortress and bridge thrown across a huge river. This fortress is called " Alan fortress." ...They placed guards on duty which lay protect against the Alans the way to the mountains kabh. For these people, there was no other way than through the bridge, over which was dominated by the castle. The castle was built on inaccessible rock, and there was no means to capture it.”
    The Georgian historical sources the first Dariali fortress was built during the Iberian King Mirian I (II century BC ).
    In the V th century fortress restored and strengthened the king Vakhtang Gorgasali. After Dariali fortress recovers King David IV in XII c.

    Daryal fortress to strong strengthen, blocking the valley of the Terek river in the most favorable to the defense field. The defense system consists of two parts. The first is represented by a strong wall on the left bank of the Terek river, blocking the gorge at its narrowest point and placed on different sides of the river at high altitude two towers.
    The second section defense consists itself of the fortress Dariali (citadel). It crowned the top of a rocky hill overlooking the left bank of the Terek river. Adjacent to the fortress, section of road is blocked by both sides of massive stone walls of thickness 2.5-3 meter. The Citadel has walls and towers (size of 100 by 80 meters), entry was from the south, with that party was a secret tunnel to the river. 1988-89 was excavated part of the fortress, some discovery walls dates from the V th century. Even under the walls of the V th century was discovered by an ancient wall thickness of 6 meters (dated II century B. C.), the central part of the wall dates back to feudal times.
    with the V-century should be design in Daryal Gorge defense system, of the fortress, consisting of a citadel with the adjacent walls and small towers and locking canyon wall with towers at the ends.

    The plan of the citadel.



    Darial Gorge.


  9. #129

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    However i find it strange that armenia has annexed a part of the Sassanid empire?
    Albania: 4-6th century. Borders of the country is shown in green.

    Important cities: Partav (Bardha) and Qabala, perhaps even more cities-Paitakaran, Shemakha, Derbent (Chol ?)...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  10. #130
    Deutschland's Avatar East of Rome Mod Leader
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    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Thank you very much! +rep

    But are you sure that Paytakaran was under Albanian rule too? To me it looks like the Albanian territory stretches a bit too far south?

  11. #131
    Blatta Optima Maxima's Avatar Definitely banned
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    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Wasn't Derbent a Sassanid fortress?

  12. #132

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Deutschland

    But are you sure that Paytakaran was under Albanian rule too? To me it looks like the Albanian territory stretches a bit too far south?
    I mean, city Oren-Kala/ Baylakan. It is considered that Oren-Kala/ Baylakan is Paitarakan. located in the east of modern Azerbaijan. City Paytakaran standing near the place where the merge Kura and Araks. Excavations conducted in 1933, 1951 and 1953 showed that initially, about V-VI centuries. Here was built a rectangular fortress, wall length of 2,5 km.
    Late In 1221, Baylakan was invaded by Tatar-Mongols.

    Cocroach the great

    Derbent is located in the Caucasian Albania. Capture by the Persians is another matter.

  13. #133
    Blatta Optima Maxima's Avatar Definitely banned
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    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    But wiki says there's a Sassanid fortress there. I also doubt the accuracy of that map, since it states Armenia was a Roman vassal in the 6th century.

  14. #134

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli


    But wiki says there's a Sassanid fortress there.
    VIII-VII century. B.C. First fortifications built on the Derbent hill.

    Historically, this area of Albania.

    I,. BC. Derbent in the Caucasian Albania

    I-III c. The heyday of Derbent Albanian (ancient) period.

    IV c. (387) Sassanian Iran captured Derbent.

    V c. (439-457 years) Construction of powerful fortifications by king Ezdigerd II.

    VI c. (488-531 years) The second phase of construction a defensive complex.By King Khosrow I Anushirvan.

    VIII century. Derbent finally became part of the Arab Caliphate.

    Derbent, which was a part of Caucasian Albania called Chola, was the adoption of Christianity in 313(around this time).

    I also doubt the accuracy of that map, since it states Armenia was a Roman vassal in the 6th century.
    On the maps, I show only state borders as well as some important cities.Тhere is nothing more.


    Last edited by daraca; September 08, 2011 at 06:50 AM.

  15. #135

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    so basically the fortress was not actually really a fortress until the persians captured it and made extensive additions to it?

  16. #136

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    so basically the fortress was not actually really a fortress until the persians captured it and made extensive additions to it?
    The first building built there Albanians and then built and expanded the Persians. In the middle Ages also rebuilt.

    Some symbols and ornaments of Kartli.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





  17. #137
    Tadzreuli's Avatar Chevalier Blanche
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    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    awesome sources !

  18. #138
    Deutschland's Avatar East of Rome Mod Leader
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    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Thank you very much these will come very handy when it comes to banners etc. +rep

  19. #139

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Quote Originally Posted by Deutschland View Post
    But are you sure that Paytakaran was under Albanian rule too? To me it looks like the Albanian territory stretches a bit too far south?
    Paytakaran was not under Albanian rule at any point as far as I know.

    Paytakaran was the easternmost Armenian province (and city) from the 2nd century BC until its princes (of the nakharar house of Syuni) decided to become part of Persia in the 5th century (early to mid 5th century if I'm not mistaken). In this timeframe it should be part of the Sassanid Empire for sure.

    As for Albania extending north towards Derbent... I'm not 100% sure that would be accurate. In the mid-3rd century a Hunnic subgroup known as "Mazkutk" invaded Kartli and Armenia and controlled the territory to the north and east of Albania, cutting it off from the Caspian coast completely. By the timeframe of East of Rome, you can check this map of Aghvank (Armenian for Albania) in the 5th-6th century. At this point it's a Sassanid province (or something of the sort, given the fortifications built by Sassanids).

    http://rbedrosian.com/rh65.htm

    You could also check this primary source, which is a History of the Albanians. I haven't had a chance to read it myself unfortunately, as of yet.

    http://rbedrosian.com/mdtoc.html
    Last edited by Drtad; September 30, 2011 at 03:03 PM.
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

  20. #140

    Default Re: [Faction Research Thread] Kingdom of Kartli

    Here are some version of heavily armed warriors. First, my drawing. I made a reconstruction by archaeological materials (arms and armor) and the look/appearance made by that time military fashion. This is more oriental armor type.( the earlier)

    Scale armor and inside Mail armor
    leg mail armor
    shield
    Axe
    Sword
    Helmet + Aventail
    Spear

    The second photo is a marble icon of the IX-X century - Saint Warrior. Icon later but the type of armor is typical to our period( Armor type earlier than the IX th century). His armor the Western type / Byzantine armor type.

    Plate armour or Scale armor
    Big round Shield
    Spear
    Sword
    ... and plus of course Helmet

    Then use both types of armor.



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Last edited by daraca; November 05, 2011 at 08:55 AM.

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