Handcuffed by Attacks

[sparty]

I feel handcuffed by attacks.

How do you guys do defense?

The opposing army marches up under my arrow fire. They chill and volley back with some of their missile units. Then they charge.

I then use spearmen on my flanks to go engage the charging cavalry and push forward with infantry to meet the coming line.

My missile units fall back.

I send my heavy cav off to get a good distance to start their charge into the rear and flanks.

The only problem is, I end up so reactionary to the charge, I'm rarely ever able to:

a) Get my missile units out of the way quick enough.

b) Get my heavy cav outside the flanks

c) Get my spearmen forward fast enough to meet the enemy cav.

Any tips?

[Chlodwig I.]

use another formation.
spear men infront of the archers.
or move them earlier

place cavalry already at the sides.


take some light cavalry to directly charge the enemy archers who are always a bit in front of theier own line so you can hit them once and run away to get later in thier back/flanks

use the terrain for your advantage, hills, forests

[Poach]

Deploy your archers right infront of your spearmen, by that I mean the front rank of spearmen should be able to poke your archers with their spears. I find it usually allows the archers to get behind the spearmen safely (make your spearmen run forward infront of the archers aswell, makes the switch go twice as fast).

In terms of your heavy cav, I prefer waiting until an enemy unit is wavering or atleast weakened in terms of numbers, then pull a unit or two off my frontline leaving a hole and charging through the hole, breaking the infantry and being able to get my cav behind their line.

If you're prepered for it you'll have your cavalry through their line and your own line re-sealed before any enemy cav can break your line. Granted their cav may intercept your cav but if your charge your cav right or left as soon as they're through the gap you can usually force a chain-reaction rout.

Hope it helps

[Xamt]

i think the main reason behind your problems is that you have an overcomplicated plan... you want to flank your enemy while you meet his charge and have your archers run out of the way at the exact moment you want/need them to....

you either have to spam pause so you can issue your orders or click like a madman ... whichever the case, if i were you i would try to have one very clear and simple plan (eg. outflank, or stand and wait for them while i pepper them with arrows)... then once i can carry that out to my satisfaction i would enrich and flavor it more - remember! your army composition must depend on your battle plan and not the other way around...

as for the points you listed:

a) dont rely on the pc to run them out of the way... if you feel that the enemy is getting dangerously close move them out yourself... also keep in mind the advice Poach gave you

b) if you want them to get someplace fast make sure you have them run... they will get tired faster, but who cares if they are tired while the enemy is running away??... alternatively use some cavalry or mercenaries with good stamina (your bodyguard has better stamina than your average heavy cavalry)

c) instead of getting your spearmen forward consider moving the rest of your army backwards... spearmen need some time to run to a place, stop, organize their ranks and brace for the charge so its kinda impossible to do all that while the enemy is charging towards you... try to either anticipate where the enemy is going to charge or leave them fake "weak" spots and be prepared to spring the trap when they take the bait
i find that the ai cavalry will go for my general more often than not, so instead of rearranging my battle line to meet their charge i run my general around (behind spearmen, far away while my archers hit their cavalry with arrows etc)

[man]

take my example from Crusades
cav any spearmen/pikemen or very heavy infantry cav
shock troop archers shock troop
gen
the enmy will usaully attck in the middle encircle with shock or cav (somtimes i use cav to run down archers or fight oter cav) and if u are fighting against the odds u get a heroic victory hope i helped

[sparty]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I will have to find some time to actually play a bit more to test everything out. I am getting the feeling that this is something you just learn over time.

[Double A]

And you could use light infantry for fodder and lc to flank!

[UhOhIt'sAnArrow]

Here's what I do:

I post my archers right in front of the line, that way they get shot at, oh and I take skirmish off and put on defend area.

Then when I get charged (if it's by cavalry) I'll send the spearmen forward to countercharge, and yes the skirmishers have a few losses, but the cavalry loses all its momentum being hit by something comming at it and running away. If it's normal Infantry, I'll just move the archers back.

And as far as flanking goes, deploy your cavalry on the flanks to begin with. The AI is too stupid to realise this, and if they send infantry after them, then they've got 1 or 2 units just running behind your lines (kind of like an open target huh?). And you should have plenty of time because you want to be sure that all of their infantry are tied up with yours, for the maximum devistation with your army.

Another little fun fact, I'll have a dread general and a chivalry one together. The dread one will make em all run while my chivalry continues to have a "civilized" army. It's quite fun really, kind of beating the game without all the negative side affects of a dread general and playing style.

[Dash]

Do your archers have stakes? If so, I'd be using those to a major extent, except I put the archers right behind the spearmen/heavyinf (I'm a strong defender and can switch to strong attacker in an instant with this composition) and have them deploy their stakes. That way, cavalry have to flank your line, but I usually have HC there to kill them.

I think stakes may slightly slow infantry charges, but I'm not sure.

[NobleNick]

Sparty,

What faction you playing?


BEFORE battle:

Get your army positioned on the CAMPAIGN map, such that your enemy, if he attacks, must attack from lower ground.

Try to get the enemy to attack. The defender gets several advantages.

Always have plenty of good archers and at least some cav support in your stack.

BATTLE setup:

If you are on defense (best) pick high ground. If on offense, realize that the enemy will probably choose high ground; so pick a spot near to that, so your lads do not have to walk a mile to engage.

Put spears in middle, Heavy Infantry at ends of your front line. Archers in front of line or just behind. Archers on loose formation, if the enemy has lots of ranged units. Slightly more archers on YOUR left (enemy's right) if you can. Cav at or near ends of your line, with the exception that your general should be near middle of line (behind your front line) unless you have special operations for him to do.

I typically get archers to stand in front of formation and bring them back in when the enemy closes. Putting them in back to start also works.

DURING battle:

At critical junctures, LIVE on the pause button SPAM pause, as someone said. It is not cheating. It is not lame. If things look like they might not be going your way, hit PAUSE, and think about what to do. Issue the correct commands and then resume. This is a strategy game; not an RTS.

If on defense: IF your archers (or crossbows or whatever) are lined up in back of your line, DISABLE skirmish mode for each unit. If in front, ENABLE skirmish mode, but do not rely on it to get your archers to safety in time. Hopefully your enemy will have a long, hard, UPHILL climb in the face of your many archers raining death down on them.

If the enemy is low on ranged units an cav, run your cav down their flanks to distract their attention, break up their formation, and get them to spend a longer time in your archers' kill zone.

If possible get some archers over to your left flank to pour fire into the enemy's unshielded right side. Protect your archers with cav.

On melee contact, move more archers to your left. Hit the ends of the enemie's line HARD with flanking H.I., cav and/or arrows and/or flaming arrows. Once the end unit routs IMMEDIATELY switch archers, H.I. and the newly freed unit which was engaging the routing unit, and send them at the new end enemy unit. Let cav chase routers if you do not need cav to crush in the next enemy unit in their front line. Chain rout of the enemy should be the result.

On offense: If enemy attacks, switch to defense. If enemy sits and waits, move patiently to high ground. Rest. Approach enemy from uphill or at least NOT from downhill (you would be surprised how often this is possible). Then edge up to the enemy and let your superior ranged firepower punish them for not attacking you. When they finally get wise and attack, revert to your excellent defense strategy and punish them some more.

A dirty trick I use is to use half stacks of pure cav. Let enemy attack. Let enemy chase you on battle map until they are exhausted. Then pounce on individual straggling units. L*I*V*E on the pause button. Easy heroic victories against most enemy mixes you will meet.

I hope that helps.

[sparty]

Thanks for the advice.

I've played Ireland, Venice, & England so far.

I am guilty of a few things:

1. I release my cav too soon so the enemy ends up chasing after them and going out of the archer kill zone.
2. I keep peasants on my front line in front of my archers, but when they rout it causes problems...
3. I was leaving my lines at the far left & right too vulnerable.

I also figured out that my general is pretty useful to picking off stragglers if I can catch then right as they start to flee.

I like your suggestions though!

[Shacklock]

Can anyone clear something up for me that I've wondered for a while. If you have, say, a spear unit engaged with, say, the enemy cav that's charged them and you have your archers behind the spearmen firing at the Cav, will they be targeteting the cav that arent actually in the thick of it or will they just shoot any of them more often than not causing friendly fire?

[Ex Tenebris Lux]

Can anyone clear something up for me that I've wondered for a while. If you have, say, a spear unit engaged with, say, the enemy cav that's charged them and you have your archers behind the spearmen firing at the Cav, will they be targeteting the cav that arent actually in the thick of it or will they just shoot any of them more often than not causing friendly fire?

From what I've seen they just fire at the unit as a whole in general and thus yes they inflict friendly casualties. I suppose you could maneuver (sp?) your archer units to behind or to the side of the engaged cav but depending on the battle that's not always practical. And due to the close proximity of your spears to the cv they'd still get hit anyway so... It's just a fundemental side effect to ballistic combat of those days...

You could be real nasty like me and swamp the enemy wit a bunch of lowgrade foot units, and then bring up massive archer units and jus shower the whole area, killing them all

"But sire, we will hit our own men...!"
"Yup."

[Shacklock]

Ah ok I thought that was the case, does seem to lower the use of archers in defensive actions (I seem to play defensive with rank deep spearmen a lot)

[UhOhIt'sAnArrow]

Try this if you're really having issues with flanking and archers getting owned. Make some peasants, put them in lose formation, and put those in front. They will take the blunt of everything, the cavalry and infantry will lose their charge, and the peasants will route having lost about 60% since they are in loose formation and were spread out. Then charge your infantry into the idle cavalry and infantry thus giving you the advantage. I'd suggest doing this with a strong set of untis becasue having routing untis to start with can be demoralizing. I use that strategy alot against people like Poland and the like.

[NobleNick]

I keep peasants on my front line in front of my archers, but when they rout it causes problems...

Ah. This, IMHO, is the worst of your errors. Peasants are best kept behind city walls, or maybe an expendable unit or two to push the towers up to the city walls.

Out in the field, keep at least medium quality troops as the backbone of your army, so that you do not lose due to premature rout of your troops.

On the other side of the coin: If the enemy brings low quality troops to the fray, target them, first. If you can get the low quality troops to rout, it becomes much easier to get others to rout. Start your chain rout with the enemies' "softest" troops.

[Grimmy]

Terrain and situation allowing it, I tend to use my archers split to both flanks at the start of battle.

This way, I can, often, catch the enemy in a funnel type kill zone as they charge my line. If the enemy deviates and charges after my archers, I slam then in their flanks with my cav that is stationed just behind the last units of inf on both ends of my line.

Then, once the enemy inf has closed with my own line, I scramble my archers to the enemy's rear and fire point blank into their backsides.

this gives me archers behind them, my inf pushing from the front, and my cav crunching their flanks.

Gotta be a bit careful not to have archers shooting at the same unit that the cav are hammering, but other than that, it generally works out rather well for me.

[Old Geezer]

Dear Sparty, What on earth are you doing with Peasants. They do not belong on the battlefield. They are a waste of money and can cause more trouble than they are worth. The AI will just kill them and get a chevron of exrta experience during the battle! They might cause another unit to route when they do.

[Magno]

yeah wtf is it with the peasants obviously they cause problems but their is a theory that peasant armies with enough men can defeat anyone, even mongols