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Thread: Mongols as a playable faction

  1. #1

    Default Mongols as a playable faction

    Dave mate, I really want to say that I am truly appreciate your job. Its just a fantastic mod to play, much better than all mods I have ever tried. Thank you so much for your great job.

    Here I am just wondering, Is there any possibility Mongols playable on this grand campaign? Actually I am really die for playing Mongols on your great campaign mod.

    Thanks for your time.

    Regards
    Anmon
    Last edited by Dave Scarface; June 29, 2008 at 03:04 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    This is a great idea and one that I have already been thinking about. Right now it seems the best solution for the mongols. Medieval II total war, great game but I am afraid to say that the mongols were very poorly done. The horde mechanic does not work well at all, never has. And has stayed the same since the game came out. It never recieved any attention in any of the patches and IMO this should have been fixed by now. I am fed up with mongols wondering around doing nothing for ages. Time I gave them a few regions at the start.. Of course some people may complain that the mongols should not be in the campaign this early. But if improving this mod means sacrificing some more historical accuracy then so be it.

    Dave

  3. #3

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    I fully agree with you. I miss having them storm through Europe. They have the potential to adding an interesting facet to a campaign by being able to actually pose a threat to a late-game empire, but they sadly never recieved any attention.

    I suggest to remove the horde function of the Mongols, and to give them a few poor provinces and a few cheap, low upkeep "horde" units. This would enable them to build large horde-like armies, but give them the same AI as every other factions, and maybe make them attack me for once. I'm not sure if this could be done but it might be a very interesting solution.
    Last edited by pwf224; June 22, 2008 at 09:20 AM.

  4. #4
    Stylix's Avatar MOS Team Member
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    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    @pwf224

    Your miss them storming through Europe. Have they ever actually done this in MW2? Maybe in the vanilla version? I have not played vanilla is such a long time I cannot remember what they did.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    Dave dude, thanks for taking my idea positively, I am agree with you. Mongols are poorly done relatively, but still got excellent units to figth. Historically Mongols solders are just like monsters who conquered half of the world.
    Mate, I hope you will think something on Mongols faction like playable on your amazying mod. Good luck
    Thanks ,,,

    Regards
    Your Big Fan
    Anmon
    Last edited by Anmonaus; June 23, 2008 at 09:15 AM.

  6. #6
    Incontinenta Buttox's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    Agree also.

    The mongols need work. They need to be made more agressive somehow. How about giving them a couple of provinces on the eastern edge of the map and a ton of money. The diffuculty would be how to avoid making them too powerful too soon.

    I worry about the poor Turks, who might end up being sandwiched between a powerful and aggressive Mongol empire and an imho overpowered Antioch.

    Otherwise, remove them from the mod altogether.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    You cannot remove the mongols, timurids or aztecs from the grand campaign. If you do it will cause serious issues for non english users, they have some stuff hardcoded into the game. I do not wish to remove them anyway. I will give them a few regions at the start. They will be unplayble, but you will be able to make them playable if you wish to do so like Antioch and Portugal.

    Also do you think I should make the mongols start off at war with Kievan Rus?

    Dave

  8. #8

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    Quote Originally Posted by dave scarface View Post
    I will give them a few regions at the start. They will be unplayble, but you will be able to make them playable if you wish to do so like Antioch and Portugal.

    Also do you think I should make the mongols start off at war with Kievan Rus?

    Dave
    yea i think so, they should kick russians ass like they are supposed to. it would be nice if they were playable.

    but dave, you have already made this game way too much fun its killing a lot of my free time. if you make the mongols playable, i might need an intervention....

  9. #9

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    Quote Originally Posted by dave scarface View Post
    Also do you think I should make the mongols start off at war with Kievan Rus? Dave
    Also, lower the upkeep on some of their horde-type units (or all units) to simulate the horde nature of the Mongols. I think that would work well.

    Or would they just get scripted reinforcements like they do now?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    I am supporting pwf224 ideas like lower upkeep to simulate the horde nature of the Mongols. Mongols are the true warlords, they born in war, die in war at that time, so maybe starting off at war with Kievan Rus is good idea too.

    Cutting them off is really damb idea I think, Historically, one of the main role in Medieval total war was Mongols impire. did not it.

    Dave mate, do you have any idea to make them more aggresive?

    thanks
    Anmo

  11. #11

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    I have an idea. how about start Mongols with really strong armies and generals but with no region. is it possible? its like Barbarian invasion RTW.
    This idea maybe more historically same situation, they got strong army but horde nation with out any region. Those armies are for taking thier homeland regions and making them more aggressive when its playable.

    Thanks

    Anmon

  12. #12

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    I created a profile purely for this post.

    It is a common misconception that the Mongols were a numberless horde running wild across Eurasia but the reality is quite the opposite. In fact, the Mongols were outnumbered in almost every battle they ever fought and won because of superior tactics and training.

    Making existing units higher quality would be perfectly fine but adjusting things to allow for larger numbers of troops would be quite ahistorical and not really necessary to providing better game balance.

    Excellent mod by the way. I just found this and am having a great time with it thus far.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    Is it possible to forcefully give the Mongols a city when the event occurs? Not sure, but that might make them slightly more aggressive.

    Speaking about historical inaccuracy btw, didn't you already break that barrier with the Teutonic Order?
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


    In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.

  14. #14
    Incontinenta Buttox's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    Would changing the Mongols win conditions affect their behaviour?

    I mean if their conditions to win required needing a string of cities from Eastern to central Europe. Would they notthen be obliged to rampage across the map to capture their required cities.

    Do win conditions even affect the AI? I don't know.

  15. #15
    Stylix's Avatar MOS Team Member
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    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    I agree that it would be nice to have some improvements made to the aggressiveness of the Mongols and its seems like some pretty good ideas have been presented. I would prefer that they maintain the 'horde mentality' and not start out with a region, but if that is what it takes than so be it.

    Would not these same issues apply to the Timurids?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    And what about give them few cities in south-east Russia at the start, and give them some hordes at the proper time? They will use it probably, as they would be an already established faction.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    I haven't even began adding the Mongols to the start of the campaign yet. Hopefully I will get around to doing it this weekend. How many regions do you think they should start out with guys? This will be tested anyway before release.

    Dave

  18. #18
    Stylix's Avatar MOS Team Member
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    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    Why not start out with just one, and then increase if necessary from there. I would like to see them more agressive or at least more active, but the surrounding factions should at least have a chance, especially early in the game.

  19. #19
    Stylix's Avatar MOS Team Member
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    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    @dave

    I noticed that there were not any win conditions for the Mongols or the Timurids in the descr_win_conditions.txt file. Would adding conditions in any way change the behavior of these factions?

    How about adding a script to check and see if 'key' regions are not under control by said factions and if not, move to attack. I have no idea if this is even possible, but I am curious.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Issues about Mongols faction

    Wow thats really good idea, start with a city also giving hordes at the Mongol invasion time.

    Dave mate good luck to your amazing job,

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackader View Post
    And what about give them few cities in south-east Russia at the start, and give them some hordes at the proper time? They will use it probably, as they would be an already established faction.

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