Mongolians?

[Basil 11]

I understand perfectly that the Mongolians will not be included in the mod, due to system limitations etc., and I support the mod's decision to include other factions in their stead. But, could the Mongolians be represented by large armies of very aggressive rebels?? :hmmm:

[Hengest]

Exactly, we want realistic numbers in the stacks too as per historical records. When the Mongols entered the Steppe they pushed 40,000 Alans into Georgia to seek service there, we want them represented. That's ten stacks just there. So rebels will be no means unimportant. I think people assume we have just swept the Mongols under the carpet because we made them as rebels, but in fact the diversity and power of the hordes will be represented much better theis way, we feel.

[Basil 11]

I agree!

[Subuatai de Bodemloze]

sounds good just as long as they are tweeked to match there real life aility and mobility.. Do the Mongols have a unit roster? I certainly hope so.. complete with Mangudai & Chinese engineers?

[Erwin Rommel]

if you want good pics of nice steepe units. PM me. I cant post it here

too sensitive

[teh.king]

just pm for any historical info
i have to much time on my hands

[beavis]

But you can't have diplomatic relations with rebels in the game. So Novgorod can't be a Mongol vassal and neither can the Seljuks nor Armenia. You can't have a Franco-Ilkhan alliance like the one attempted in history in your mod either

[Hengest]

if you want good pics of nice steepe units. PM me. I cant post it here

too sensitive

Cheers mate, I get you... might just take you up on that.

About diplomacy, Beavis- yeah, you're right but the diplomacy isn't all that great in the game either. I mean you make and break alliances all the time thanks to the AI, but the gains from making them rebels are much greater and more historically correct. That's my story anyway...

[Copperknickers II]

But you can't have diplomatic relations with rebels in the game. So Novgorod can't be a Mongol vassal and neither can the Seljuks nor Armenia. You can't have a Franco-Ilkhan alliance like the one attempted in history in your mod either

No, but there are ways of getting around that. Plus, vassals are more or less useless in this game anyway.

[ehecatzin]

I really like the aproach you are taking for the mongols, the horde is just so poorly represented in the game, sure the first stacks are fearsome, but once the mongols settle...they kinda loose their innitial appeal.

looking forward for the rebel system you plan to implement by the way.


PS:yes..SS sig..Im looking for a new mod, just cant live with those long turns, so I'll be keeping an eye on you.

[SaberHRE]

So let's talk Mongol units. A lot of the mods now a days, put infantry in for mongols. Whether it's infantry archers or some sort of normal close combat infantry. From what I remembered reading about the Mongols, the Mongols, and in many ways the nations were very similar to them, Qipchaks, Cumans, Naimans etc. never employed infantry at all. In the steppe lands, fighting was extremely embarassing and humiliating. The Mongols had such a utter disgust for infantry to an extent that anything that had something to do with walking was despised. An example of this can be seen in Chingis' life itself. Temujin as a child was banished from his tribe and had to live and support the family by himselfs. The family by that time was ignored by Temujin's rivals, because they believed Temujin was so poor and powerless he had to resort to eating fish(a non-staple diet for nomadic mongols).

When the campaigns of conquest moved further and further, the Mongols had to begin employing infantry. Whilst the conquest of the Song and the Jin, involved a number of infantry, the extent of their use is rather unknown. Chinese infantry served either as engineers, or slave-fodder troops.

In the western campaigns the Mongols used a slightly similar policy concerning infantry. Most infantry was composed of subjugated nations, among a warrior populace. Thus semi-settled Turkmen, Kurds, Persians, Georgians, Armenians and Russians(although these were more tributary soldiers rather than forcibly conscripted ones) were employed as infantry with the purpose of garrisoning and siege warfare. However during the very first campaigns, the Mongol used little to no infantry units at all, employing however a ruthless tactic of using the captured populace as living shields.

The enslaved populace's, or the Hashar as Al-Juvaini calls them, only function was performing non-combatant duties and providing a living shield for the mongol warriors. During sieges, the Hashar, was pushed forwards towards the besieged citadels, so that their deaths would dishearten the defenders, or fill the moats, holes and traps.

[Copperknickers II]

You can't have a Franco-Ilkhan alliance like the one attempted in history in your mod either

Yes we can. We don't have the original Mongol Horde, but the Il-Khanate will be included as a faction.

[Add1ct]

Yes we can. We don't have the original Mongol Horde, but the Il-Khanate will be included as a faction.

as a transition of the Seljuks, right?

[Subuatai de Bodemloze]

Yes correct... for now..

[Copperknickers II]

And for always, unless you have some subversive evil plan to change that, Subutai...

[Add1ct]

Yes correct... for now..

monkeys, amirite? It's monkey's isn't it?

[Sanskrit_Bandit]

willo these rebel mongol armies be able to pilage a city and keep going? or will the dumb AI army just stay as a garrison once it conquers the city?

[Subuatai de Bodemloze]

or will the dumb AI army just stay as a garrison once it conquers the city?

Not if we can help it..

[Copperknickers II]

willo these rebel mongol armies be able to pilage a city and keep going?

They willo indeedo!

[GoChanceGo]

Rebel army stacks that don't just camp out in the woods for 20 turns?! Unfathomable!