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Thread: The Eastern Revival - new factions & map - updated July 1st

  1. #1
    shenryyr's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default The Eastern Revival - new factions & map - updated July 1st

    After so much deliberation, rhetoric, and filibustering concerning what factions people would trade in which ways, I figured might as well just go do it, put your fingers where your mouth is.. or something..

    So now I'm working on this mod which I call the Eastern Revival, or Stainless Steel: ER (emergency repairs perhaps?)



    Stainless Steel: The Eastern Revival is an attempt to portray eastern europe, the middle east, and other parts of the game more realistically based on research and input from the SS community, you guys! I have put together a bunch of files that can be used as a playable preview of what the mod will be when done, just missing lots of stuff right now.

    ** JULY 1st '08 UPDATE ** includes:
    more map changes - in iraq/iran, the balkans, spain, france, germany, and italy
    map feature changes - added green arrows to show crossable narrow land gaps
    campaign unit graphics by y2day
    symbol change for burgundy/arles by y2day
    banner change for burgundy/arles
    campaign scripted 1st crusade that gives the Crusader States a good beginning around turn 12-14 (1096-1100) and sets them at war with Egypt and the Turks

    DOWNLOAD AND INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS
    • navigate to your \M2TW\data\banners
    • make copies of all the .dds files (the originals will be overwritten)
    • navigate to \M2TW\mods
    • copy Stainless Steel 6 folder and name the newly copied folder "SSER" (without the quotes)
    • navigate to \M2TW root directory
    • download the mod (~41mb) to that directory
    • unzip the mod, delete the zip when done if you want
    • navigate to \M2TW\mods\SSER\data\world\maps\base
    • delete map.rwm
    • launch the game with SSER.bat in \M2TW\mods\SSER
    IF IT DOES NOT WORK IT'S PROBABLY BECAUSE YOU DID NOT FOLLOW THESE STEPS

    -------------------------------------------

    Faction changes:
    • added Kingdom of Georgia(orthodox) in the caucasus, starting with the town of Batumi
    • added the Abbasid Caliphate(moslem) in mesopotamia, starting with Baghdad
    • added the Bulgarian Empire(orthodox) in the balkans, starting with Scopia(their old capital) and Targoviste, where some of them lived/hid during Byzantine control
    • merged the Knights Templar and the Kingdom of Jerusalem into the Crusader States, with a launching position to begin the first crusade from Cyprus
    • converted Portugal into the Kingdom of Burgundy(Arles), positioned between France and the HRE, and also with their new holding on the Iberian peninsula, Port Cale, also known as Portugal
    • removed Aragon --- they simply did not exist as a power in 1080.. still just part of the Spanish March, certainly did not have Zaragoza, since that was in moslem hands
    • removed Ireland --- hey, I'm irish, but come on, they didn't do much in medieval times, they didn't even rule their island. they simply don't belong
    • Turks renamed to Seljuk Empire
    • Cumans renamed to Kipchak Khanate
    • Fatimids renamed to Egypt
    Map changes:
    • added regions in Anatolia
    • added regions in Iraq/Iran
    • added regions in the Balkans
    • added a region in Hungary
    • added a region in Poland
    • added several regions from Russia to the Caucasus
    • added a new system of deserts to spread out regions and slow down movement(no roads in the desert)
    • reshaped many regions
    Graphical changes:
    • nearly none, I made some crappy attempts at faction symbols and whatnot, but I'm no artist
    Who does this mod appeal to?
    • Anywho who wanted to play the Abbasids, Burgundy, Georgia, or Bulgaria
    General notes:
    • Kipchaks, Seljuks, and Moors start out with significantly more territories
    • UNITS ARE NOT DONE, THESE ARE THE OLD FACTION'S UNITS AND CAMPAIGN UNIT COLORS AND BATTLE UNIT COLORS
    • I know someone's still going to complain about that
    • Faction relations are not done
    • Religious conflict is not done
    • Mongols are not done
    • SO FAR THIS IS EARLY ERA ONLY, DON'T BOTHER TRYING LATE ERA
    • Abbasids and Arlesians are overpowered
    • Denmark's symbol is wrong
    • Bulgaria's colors were never red and black, but I didn't want another yellow/red or black/yellow faction, so removing the yellow... red/black!
    • Arles' colors were blue(from France), red(from Burgundy), light blue, and white(from Provence, and used in Portugal), but I just decided to use the same white/blue colors of portugal for now
    • Just like SS, this will affect the banners of all your M2TW games, sooooo when you want to go back to the regular banners, just go to \M2TW\data\banners and replace the .dds files with the copies you made during this installation(YOU DID MAKE COPIES LIKE THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY, RIGHT?)

    Comments are welcome, but please don't suggest any new factions or removal of current ones, it's simply not going to happen(sorry!).

    I would appreciate information on UNITS that were used by the added/changed factions. Units have not yet been decided and will definitely be changed.

    Remember this is not an alpha, a beta, or a release candidate, this is just a playable preview of the map and faction changes.

    Here's a glance at the map after 50 turns of play
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The original post is behind this cut, including some pictures of the altered map and factions(not the final ones)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Changes in this mod include (but are not limited to):

    3 brand new factions
    • the Abbasid Caliphate (moslem)
    • the Kingdom of Georgia (orthodox)
    • the Bulgarian Empire (orthodox)

    8 brand new regions (city)
    • Karelia (Ladoga)
    • Desna Basin (Chernigov)
    • Dykra (Ochakiv)
    • Dobruja (Constanta)
    • Lesser Bulgaria (Tarnovo)
    • North Caucasus (Derbent)
    • East Azerbaijan (Ardebil)
    • Lesser Kurdistan (Kirkuk)

    Several "shifted" regions to better represent their area at the time
    • Wallachia (Targoviste instead of Bucharest)
    • Khazaria (Atil instead of Astrakhan)
    • Ukraine (Poltava instead of Pereyaslav)
    • Armenia (Dvin instead of Yerevan)
    • Oman (Muscat instead of Shiraz)
    • others

    New desert system that:
    • separates regions
    • slows movement (no roads)
    • can often be traveled
    • can never be conquered

    Factions considerably altered:
    • Knights Templar and Kingdom of Jerusalem have been merged into one faction: the Crusader States
    • Ireland has been removed, its 3 regions consolidated into one: Ireland (Dublin)
    • Genoa has been removed, but its two regions remain intact
    • Scotland loses Aberdeen
    • England loses Winchester
    • Cumans renamed to Kipchak Khanate
    • Kipchaks gain huge territory, spanning southern Kiev lands to the Ural mountains
    • Kipchak capital moved to Atil, the capital of the steppe peoples who ruled before them, the Khazars
    • Seljuk Sultanate renamed to Seljuk Sultanate of Rūm
    • Seljuks no longer control Tbilisi, Dvin(was Yerevan), or Tabriz
    • Kievan Rus no longer control Poltava(was Pereyaslav)
    • Kievan Rus now control Zhytomyr and Chernigov
    • Novgorod now controls Ladoga
    • HRE no longer controls Bologna
    • HRE now controls Bern
    • HRE capital moved to Nuremburg
    • Byzantine Empire now controls Trebizond, Arta, Durazzo, Scopia, Sofia, Tarnovo, Canakkale, and Constanta
    • The Crusader States now control Adana as a launching point for the First Crusade.
    • The Crusader states receive huge armies(a fake crusade) near the beginning of the Early Era to establish their kingdom.

    Some quick looks at the new factions and map changes:

    The Abbasid Caliphate
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Centered around the Caliph of Baghdad, the Abbasids once ruled a large, propserous territory across Mesopotamia and parts of Syria, Persia, Arabia, and the Levant. That was long ago. After years of Seljuk domination, the lands are weak and the armies small, but with the Seljuks busy getting devoured by the Kwarezm, the yolk has finally been lifted, and a new Caliphate shall rise.

    How long can they last? Catholics to the West, Orthodox to the North, and unfriendly Kwarezm coming from the East. Don't forget the Mongols, who brought forth their largest army ever(over 120,000 souls) to siege Baghdad before burning and pillaging the once proud city.



    The Kingdom of Georgia
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The Caucasus have been inhabited, conquered, gained new inhabitants, burned to the ground, devastated by huge earthquakes, and eventually the Mongols. To say this region has deep history is a serious understatement.

    In medieval times, Georgia experienced its golden age under queen Tamar, taking all of the Caucasus and some of Anatolia under its protection. Always bearing the flag of St. George(red cross on white), their successful defense against repeated attacks from Mongols showed how blessed they truly were, and soon thereafter they adapted 4 more crosses to the corners of their flag, inspired by their Catholic brothers from the Kingdom of Jerusalem.


    The Bulgarian Empire (second)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The First Bulgarian Empire may be over, driven from their lands by the much more powerful Byzantines, but turmoil in Constantinople and the Byzantines' Eastward push to regain territories lost to the Turks gives these hiding nationalists an opportunity to push back. Will the second empire ever come to fruition?

    Note this is the Early Era version of the Bulgarian Empire -- in Late Era, starting 1220, the faction will begin with Sofia, Tarnovo, Targoviste, Constanta, and Iasi. The Byzantines will be significantly weaker then, certainly a much better time to rule Bulgaria, unless you fancy a challenge!


    Major map changes
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Briefly, reasons for each change:
    • Ladoga was extremely important in the medieval age. It's schools were so famous that kings from all over Europe sent their sons to learn there. The waterway at Ladoga led through its lake to the port at the Baltic Sea, making it the gateway for all of Novgorod, and in turn the Rus people.
    • Chernigov was the 2nd largest and wealthiest city in all of Kiev, and often rivaled Kiev for control as the Principality of Chernigov.
    • Ochakiv never was very important. The Crimean Khan /gave/ his western regions to Lithuania because they were so useless. In fact, Lithuania called their new territory Dykra, which means Wasteland. But there really is nothing in the map between the city of Kiev and the Black Sea, so this was purely a judgement call on my part, a 'there needs to be something here' moment. Odessa would have been perfect, but it did not populate for another several hundred years, so I went with a small fortress which protected the mouth of a little river.
    • Constanta was a tiny fishing village in early medieval times, but it grew to become one of the largest ports in the world, so it became the choice over an easier option of Varna.
    • Targoviste is a no-brainer. Bucharest did not exist in 1080, so I went with an established settlement in Wallachia, famous to boot.
    • Tarnovo is another no-brainer. It was the capital of both Bulgarian empires.
    • Derbent was a hugely important settlement, situated on the thin strip of land between huge Caucasus mountains and the Caspian Sea. If you wanted to travel, trade, or go to war, you had to go through Derbent.
    • Ardebil was the largest city in the entire area, much bigger than Tabriz.
    • Kirkuk was a stronghold not used very often in medieval times, but it was there, and I felt the map needed something to break up Baghdad's huge region and serve as a buffer between the Abbasids and Kermanshah.
    • Oman was known and involved during the game's timeframe, but usualy as subjects of other powers, like the Seljuks.

    Deserts
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    These are part of a permanent rebel region, parts of which you can walk through, parts you cannot. But walking will be slow without any roads, and trade across deserts isn't possible. Don't expect to find much food out there either!



    In conclusion,

    Work is nowhere near done, I'm somewhat satisfied with icons and colors, but the to-do list is large. For the 3 new factions and also the Crusader States:
    • campaign map units (princesses/generals/captains/merchants/diplomats, etc) need reskinning
    • proper units need to be determined
    • battle map units will need (re)skinning
    • unit icons and info cards
    • faction chooser map graphics
    • faction descriptions
    • faction 'unique unit' pictures
    • faction weaknesses and strengths

    If anyone could help with these I would greatly appreciate it!
    Last edited by shenryyr; July 01, 2008 at 05:42 PM.
    my other horse is a space ship

  2. #2

    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    great idea, are you gonna make your own skins for the new factions are you need of a skinner still?

  3. #3
    Senktris's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    shenryyr, if you need help with something, just send ma PM, I'd be glad to help you

  4. #4

    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    Me likes this

    Ding: your SS addiction has gone up one level
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  5. #5

    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    Great!
    I'm just was going to correct and make some changes with the SS map for myself. Including new provs like Tchernigov and Ochakiv.
    But what is Dykra?
    And Ochakiv was founded only in 1492 AD. There were two towns (since XI-XII) on the Black see coast: Berlad (Belgorod Dnestrovsky) and Oleshje.

  6. #6

    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    Pm me if you need anything specific as long as it's no texturing or modeling.
    Artifex
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  7. #7

    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    I can't believe it, but I agree with all the changes this mod will make. This could be the 'definitive' SS...

    It would be good to implement some of the unit mini-mods as well, for example for Byzantium...



  8. #8
    shenryyr's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    Hi guys, thanks for the encouragement! This is my first modding effort for any game so bear with me

    I could use help with the unit rosters -- what faction-specific units could be added for Georgia, Bulgaria, and the Abbasids? Right now the Abbasids are using Irish units like Ridire to fight the Kwarezm, it's really awesome

    Ireland's unique units are Gallogliach, Horseboys, Hobiguir, Ridire, Mounted Calivermen, Lords Retinue, Ulster Swordsmen, Muire, Ceitherne, Ostmen, Saighdeoir, Deisi Javelinmen, and Saethwyr, 13 units. Knights Templar's unique units are Templar Guard, Templar Spearmen, Templar Zweihander, and Noble Spearmen, 4 units. Genoa's unique units are Famiglia Ducale, Genoese Crossbowmen, Genoese Crossbow Militia, and Carroccio Standard M, so another 4 units.

    That's 21 to remove, so we could do up to 7 unique units for each new faction. Suggestions?

    Also, what current units should be used by these factions? The Abbasids should have a generic egyptian/turkish mix, I can probably do that, but what about Bulgaria and Georgia? They're Orthodox, but very atypical- both had influence from steppes peoples(pechenegs, khazars, kipchaks), Georgia certainly made use of turkish units, and Bulgaria used some of the Byzantine units, but perhaps others like Hungarians...

    Could someone post a reply with suggsted unit rosters for the new factions?
    my other horse is a space ship

  9. #9
    y2day's Avatar TWC STORE NOW OPEN!
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    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    Shen
    I would suggest looking at BCs units for the new factions. I know you can't use thiers but we can get a general idea for faction composition.




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  10. #10
    BigJake's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    This mod sounds great, I've been playing BC lately becouse of the lack of eastern factions in SS.

    This mod is gonna make SS a lot better.
    +rep

  11. #11

    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    I agree with y2day, using BC as a template would be great. You might even ask them for some units.

    Also, I'd suggest losing all the Peasant units to free up more slots. Peasants suck.

    One thing to consider is the number of good mini-mods out there for SS, some of which add better rosters for factions like Byzantium and Lithuania. The 'vanilla-style' units of SS are looking more and more obsolete, so the more realistic units you can add, the better Eastern Revival will be



  12. #12

    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    it would be real nice if the BC units could be inserted into stainless... that would be just about the perfect mtw2 mod



  13. #13
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    Quote Originally Posted by DenniZ View Post
    it would be real nice if the BC units could be inserted into stainless... that would be just about the perfect mtw2 mod
    The BC team do not allow any of their work to be used outside of BC.

    This sounds like a great submod for SS shenryyr
    Last edited by Caesar Clivus; June 16, 2008 at 06:54 AM.

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  14. #14
    y2day's Avatar TWC STORE NOW OPEN!
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    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    The BC guys are great moddlers and skinners. I know i just started skinning but i think we can hopefully come up with something good. Anything is better than vanilla skins.




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  15. #15
    themoob's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    This sounds great. I'd definitely download this.

    I'd help, but I fail involving anything that isn't simple EDU changes or doesn't involve photoshop. But still, if you think of something, feel free to PM me.

  16. #16

    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    shenryyr
    Well Bulgaria is a bit of a strange choice for a valid faction compared to Genoa, but I have always thought Georgia should be in. If you need some aid with Kipchaks, Georgia or Byzantium, let me know. As soon as you introduce the Kipchaks, I think the Mamaluks needed looking at, and while you cannot use BC stuff (rightly so imo), I do use Slave Markets in my mod and allow them to recruit such, something BC does do, you just need to make your own images and descriptions.

    I am going through the boring process of adding a pagan culture, which I think is also needed, especially if conversion is ever going to be allowed.

    For ideas I would look at PDER as they have Georgia in, and you will need names for characters.

    As to Winchester, thats a bad choice imo, as in the period it was the second largest city in UK, so might be better to get rid of Exeter. I know it makes the map slighty unwieldy, but gives more room for those cornish rebels.

    Luck

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  17. #17

    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    While I'm glad you're adding two desperately needed factions to the Middle East, I must say it's a terrible choice to remove Genoa, a key faction to stop the already-overpowered Venice for a faction with one province in a area that's busy enough and isn't in need of an additional faction.

  18. #18

    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    I would also prefer to see Genoa kept in, since Venice needs the competition. I'd rather see Portugal removed. But either way, one of them should go to make room for an eastern faction.

    Anything is better than vanilla skins.
    Amen!



  19. #19
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    Georgia is going to be a difficult faction to come with much information on rosters etc.

    From David Nicolle's "Medieval warfare Source Book" Vol2, I can summarise thus:

    Little is known about 12th-14th century armies, apart from them including some western mercenaries (don't say which). Local troops noted as archers, elite had armoured cavalry known as aghlumi. (on p131)

    Army was organised around the local clan. (p.143)

    Cavalry of Georgia became more influenced by neighbouring muslim Turkish regions (p.153)

    western heraldry didn't reach Georgia, flags showed influence of Byzantine, Islamic and Persian influences. Late 12th-early13th century royal banner (alami) was red and black (good colours).

    book has short biography of David IV Aghmashenebeli (King of Georgia 1089-1125) (Took Tibilisi in 1122 from Saljuks) He recruited many Qipchak Turks from the northern steppes and a smaller number of European mercs. (p215) Succeeded by Queen Tamara "a warrior-queen".

    Georgia had a small navy in the 13th century consisting of galleys, known as catargha. Also Georgian merchant ships known as navi. (p.179)

    (I'll let you know if I find more)

    If you're starting in 1080 or thereabouts this from wikipedia may be of interest:

    The second half of the 11th century was marked by the strategically significant invasion of the Seljuk Turks, who by the end of the 1040s had succeeded in building a vast nomadic empire including most of Central Asia and Persia. In 1071, the Seljuk army destroyed the united Byzantine-Armenian and Georgian forces in the battle of Mantsikert. By 1081, all of Armenia, Anatolia, Mesopotamia, Syria, and most of Georgia had been conquered and devastated by the Seljuks. In Georgia, only the mountainous areas of Abkhazia, Svanetia, Racha, and Khevi-Khevsureti remained out of Seljuk control and served as a relatively safe havens for numerous refugees. The rest of the country was dominated by the conquerors who were engaged in destroying the cities and fortresses, looting the villages, and massacring both the aristocracy and the farming population. In fact, by the end of the 1080s, Georgians were outnumbered in the region by the invaders.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._%28country%29

    wherefrom also:

    In 1118-1119, having considerable amounts of free, unsettled land as a result of the withdrawal of Turkish nomads, and desperately needing qualified manpower for the army, King David invited some 40,000 Kipchak warriors from North Caucasus to settle in Georgia with their families. In 1120 the ruler of Alania recognized himself as King David’s vassal and afterwards sent thousands of Alans (allegedly modern day Ossetians) to cross the main Caucasus range into Georgia, where they settled in Kartli. The Georgian Royal army also welcomed mercenaries from Germany, Italy, and Scandinavia (all those westerners were defined in Georgia as “the Franks”) as well as from Kievan Rus.
    and

    Queen Tamar the Great and the Golden Age 1184 -1213

    The reign of Queen Tamar represented the peak of Georgia’s might in the whole history of the nation. In 1194-1204 Tamar’s armies crushed new Turkish invasions from the south-east and south and launched several successful campaigns into Turkish-controlled Southern Armenia. As a result, most of Southern Armenia, including the cities of Karin, Erzinjan, Khelat, Mush and Van, came under Georgian control. Although it was not included in the lands of the Georgian Crown, and was left under the nominal rule of local Turkish Emirs and Sultans, Southern Armenia became a protectorate of the Kingdom of Georgia.
    shame the game is hardcoded to exclude women from positions of power.

  20. #20
    shenryyr's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: the Eastern Revival, a new mod, a work in progress

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozanov View Post
    Georgian rosters, etc.
    Well that's a starting point -- if they were so successful defending against the mongol invasions perhaps they had decent spearmen too. Western mercenaries might have been Byzantines from Trebizond.

    Seljuks, etc
    Yeah, I don't know why SS shows the seljuks in such a diminished state in 1080. While it's true they had high levels of internal turmoil, the empire had just been created, so they were vastly dominant over everything from the Aral Sea to the Sea of Marmara, including all of the Levant. I think I'll rename them to Seljuk Empire and put them in charge of their huge lands, then bring in some pissed off Kwarezm from Urgench to steal Iran, the Crusader States to take the Levant, Byzantines in Anatolia, maybe even the Abbasids could get in on some of the action.

    Late Era/1220 they have much more defined borders, already being removed from Iran, Iraq, Syria, and the Levant.


    Thanks for the research! For now I will try to mix-and-match a basic military for each faction from what seems logical. And as far as not knowing too much information about the specific units, that just means it's time to be creative! Broken Crescent's Georgia doesn't get creative... they use 'georgian heavy lancers', 'georgian medium lancers', 'georgian heavy spearmen', 'georgian medium spearmen', 'georgian light spearmen', etc.
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