script to disable pope excommunicating factions?

[rageallday]

if i install darth mod over retrofit will it work? the reason i ask this is because darth mod uses a script so factions cannot be excommunicated, thus stoping crusades on Christian factions (bug apprantly)


how could i stop the pope excommunicating catholic factions?

does anybody know the script darth mod uses?

[Candelarius]

I highly doubt that you can just install the Darth Mod over any other mod and expect the combination to work without additional tweaking, but, I would ask Darth before you try it. As I have said before, mods are collections of text files, whichever mod you install last, over-writes the elements of the mod you installed first, which may lead to instability in the resulting product.

Regardless, why would anyone want to remove excommunications? The excommunication was the most powerful tool available to the Papacy, and was used very often as part of the "carrot and stick" policy practiced by the Papacy throughout the medieval era. Indeed yes, excommunication was practiced on Christian factions! In fact, it was only used against Catholic factions, why would the Pope forbid non-Catholics from partaking in the Catholic Mass and Communion? I surprised at the lack of knowledge that leads to modding decisions in this forum. Has nobody heard of the excommunication placed on Henry II when he refused to allow the archbishop of Canterbury entry into the realm? Has nobody heard of the excommunication placed on the Duchy of Milan for much of the 14th century in payment for the Viconti's repeated abuses and buchery of not only Papal lands, but Papal envoys and priests? How about the excommunication of Henry VIII, for infamous and obvious reasons? These are but a few examples. Indeed, entire crusades pronounced against fellow [herectical] Catholic nations and peoples. Read A Distant Mirror by Barbara Tuchman, God's Crucible by David Lewis, or Hawkwood, by Francis Sauders, to name but a few books on the medieval era that discuss at length the colorful relations between Church and State, and the horrors and terrors that the two inflicted on one another for much the medieval period. So no, the Papal punishment in the game for disobeying Church orders is certainly not a "bug", and it is not only silly to mod it out, but destroys a valuable strategic aspect to playing any game set in the medieval era.

[rageallday]

I highly doubt that you can just install the Darth Mod over any other mod and expect the combination to work without additional tweaking, but, I would ask Darth before you try it. As I have said before, mods are collections of text files, whichever mod you install last, over-writes the elements of the mod you installed first, which may lead to instability in the resulting product.

Regardless, why would anyone want to remove excommunications? The excommunication was the most powerful tool available to the Papacy, and was used very often as part of the "carrot and stick" policy practiced by the Papacy throughout the medieval era. Indeed yes, excommunication was practiced on Christian factions! In fact, it was only used against Catholic factions, why would the Pope forbid non-Catholics from partaking in the Catholic Mass and Communion? I surprised at the lack of knowledge that leads to modding decisions in this forum. Has nobody heard of the excommunication placed on Henry II when he refused to allow the archbishop of Canterbury entry into the realm? Has nobody heard of the excommunication placed on the Duchy of Milan for much of the 14th century in payment for the Viconti's repeated abuses and buchery of not only Papal lands, but Papal envoys and priests? How about the excommunication of Henry VIII, for infamous and obvious reasons? These are but a few examples. Indeed, entire crusades pronounced against fellow [herectical] Catholic nations and peoples. Read A Distant Mirror by Barbara Tuchman, God's Crucible by David Lewis, or Hawkwood, by Francis Sauders, to name but a few books on the medieval era that discuss at length the colorful relations between Church and State, and the horrors and terrors that the two inflicted on one another for much the medieval period. So no, the Papal punishment in the game for disobeying Church orders is certainly not a "bug", and it is not only silly to mod it out, but destroys a valuable strategic aspect to playing any game set in the medieval era.

or atleast to stop him ordering other factions to be 'crusaded' on

[Candelarius]

I really am not aware of a script to accomplish what you wish, I'm sorry. Maybe post in the scripting sub-forum in the Workshop area of the forum? :hmmm:

But again, just so you know....

Crusades against Christian factions did occur. Here are some examples:

1. The invasion of England in 1066 was sanctioned by the Church, and was the first time one nation was directed to attack another at the instruction of the Church (William the Bastard reportedly paid the Pope off in order to further justify his conquest, as reported in the History of Britain, by the BBC).

2. The Albigensian Crusade was really against fellow Christians, even though the church labelled them as heretics (and along with the heretics thousands of Catholic symphasizers were set to the torch).

3. The Aragonese Crusade was declared by Pope Martin IV against the King of Aragon in 1284.

4. The Hussite Crusades, or Hussite Wars, were crusading movements against fellow Catholics who wanted to reform the Church.

5. The Baltic Crusades, and the Swedish Crusades, were a series of military adventures in the 13th century to force the allegedly "pagan" Norse and Swiss peoples to adopt Christianity, but, in reality, these peoples are already largely Christian, and the military enterprises were really excuses for Crusader-Nostalgic warrior-lords to expand their territories or excite their martial appetites.

6. Don't forget the notorius Fourth Crusade, that originally set out for the Holy Land, but, upon payment and encouragement by Venice, decided to sack and then destroy Constantinople.

So, believe me, as one who is relatively well read on the era, there is ample historical background to justify the Crusading movements in the game against naughty Christian kings and factions. But, if you want to find a way of modding it out, that's fine...but please don't think that it's existence is a "bug".

[rageallday]

I really am not aware of a script to accomplish what you wish, I'm sorry. Maybe post in the scripting sub-forum in the Workshop area of the forum? :hmmm:

But again, just so you know....

Crusades against Christian factions did occur. Here are some examples:

1. The invasion of England in 1066 was sanctioned by the Church, and was the first time one nation was directed to attack another at the instruction of the Church (William the Bastard reportedly paid the Pope off in order to further justify his conquest, as reported in the History of Britain, by the BBC).

2. The Albigensian Crusade was really against fellow Catholics, even though the church labelled them as heretics (and along with the heretics thousands of Catholic symphasizers were set to the torch).

3. The Aragonese Crusade was declared by Pope Martin IV against the King of Aragon in 1284.

4. The Hussite Crusades, or Hussite Wars, were crusading movements against fellow Catholics who wanted to reform the Church.

5. The Baltic Crusades, and the Swedish Crusades, were a series of military adventures in the 13th century to force the allegedly "pagan" Norse and Swiss peoples to adopt Christianity, but, in reality, these peoples are already largely Christian, and the military enterprises were really excuses for Crusader-Nostalgic warrior-lords to expand their territories or excite their martial appetites.

6. Don't forget the notorius Fourth Crusade, that originally set out for the Holy Land, but, upon payment and encouragement by Venice, decided to sack and then destroy Constantinople.

So, believe me, as one who is relatively well read on the era, there is ample historical background to justify the Crusading movements in the game against naughty Christian kings and factions. But, if you want to find a way of modding it out, that's fine...but please don't think that it's existence is a "bug".

''Pope Fixed. Yes..it was bugged from vanilla, no doubt about that because it had script to attack fellow Christians, now this has changed with new script to have hostility only with muslims therefore staying idle in his lands or attack non-christian, rebel near him. ''


extract from the darth mod release post

[Candelarius]

''Pope Fixed. Yes..it was bugged from vanilla, no doubt about that because it had script to attack fellow Christians, now this has changed with new script to have hostility only with muslims therefore staying idle in his lands or attack non-christian, rebel near him. ''

extract from the darth mod release post

That's nice, but, that's just one person's opinion that he has put into his mod. However, I'm not at all sure what "bug" in vanilla he is referring to, in all the campaigns I've played, both vanilla and with the Retrofit, and I've played through many full campaigns and run several full "test campaigns" in the past year and a half since this game was released, and I have never once seen the Papacy ever attack another Christian faction that wasn't excommunicated. Nor am I at all convinced that the Pope should "stay idle in his lands [and only] attack non-christian[s]", as I have discussed in my previous posts.

But, my point wasn't to dispute the "bug" hunting attempts of the Darth Mod, my main point to my participation in this discussion was to help you better understand the historical reality the Papacy played in medieval Europe. For example, regarding the notion that the Papacy never left Rome and never had any temporal military ambitions, I strongly recommend a reading of Hawkwood, which is a non-fiction reference book about the life and times of Sir John Hawkwood, a mercenary prince-knight employed by the Papacy and Milan during the 14th century. The books is excellent, and goes into very great details about the wars the Papal States waged against Milan, Venice, HRE, and Sicily. The Pope was nothing like the modern peace-loving Catholic Church we have today, but was a verifiable Holy Warrior at the head of an expansionist, military regime that dominated Italy throughout the 11th-15th centuries. Anyone who says otherwise knows nothing about medieval politics.

As for the notion that it is not historical that the Papacy excommunicated fellow Christians, never attacked excommunicated Christians, or that Christians never took part in crusades against other Christians, this is completely and utterly false. I've given you several book references and cited numerous examples in my previous posts. Read the books I mentioned or research the subjects I outlined if you really want to learn more about the history of warfare, and the role of the Papacy, in the middle ages.

Anyway, I hope this has helped you somewhat. Cheers.

[rageallday]

That's nice, but, that's just one person's opinion that he has put into his mod. However, I'm not at all sure what "bug" in vanilla he is referring to, in all the campaigns I've played, both vanilla and with the Retrofit, and I've played through many full campaigns and run several full "test campaigns" in the past year and a half since this game was released, and I have never once seen the Papacy ever attack another Christian faction that wasn't excommunicated. Nor am I at all convinced that the Pope should "stay idle in his lands [and only] attack non-christian[s]", as I have discussed in my previous posts.

But, my point wasn't to dispute the "bug" hunting attempts of the Darth Mod, my main point to my participation in this discussion was to help you better understand the historical reality the Papacy played in medieval Europe. For example, regarding the notion that the Papacy never left Rome and never had any temporal military ambitions, I strongly recommend a reading of Hawkwood, which is a non-fiction reference book about the life and times of Sir John Hawkwood, a mercenary prince-knight employed by the Papacy and Milan during the 14th century. The books is excellent, and goes into very great details about the wars the Papal States waged against Milan, Venice, HRE, and Sicily. The Pope was nothing like the modern peace-loving Catholic Church we have today, but was a verifiable Holy Warrior at the head of an expansionist, military regime that dominated Italy throughout the 11th-15th centuries. Anyone who says otherwise knows nothing about medieval politics.

As for the notion that it is not historical that the Papacy excommunicated fellow Christians, never attacked excommunicated Christians, or that Christians never took part in crusades against other Christians, this is completely and utterly false. I've given you several book references and cited numerous examples in my previous posts. Read the books I mentioned or research the subjects I outlined if you really want to learn more about the history of warfare, and the role of the Papacy, in the middle ages.

Anyway, I hope this has helped you somewhat. Cheers.

ok, but is there anyway i can edit how he acts with other factions?

[Candelarius]

I'm assuming in the campaign_AI xml file, but I have no experience modding AI behaviors. Again, I would post your question in the Modding Workshop section of the forum, I'm sure the experienced modders there could help you. Good luck in your endeavors.

[rageallday]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...about+the+pope

[rageallday]

and on top of that....

[Candelarius]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...about+the+pope

and on top of that....

Your first image (in the link) is simply the Pope in Greece...which is strange, but, hardly evidence of the Papal faction attacking fellow non-excommunicated Christian factions. I've never seen the Pope wandering around Greece in any of my campaigns before, but, there is always room for one-time weirdness by the game engine (which makes the game interesting and infinately replayable). This is hardly a reason to completely remove the ability of the Pope from leaving Rome, though.

With regards to the Pope attacking a rebel faction....yes, so what? The Papacy often attacks Florence in nearly every single campaign (when it is a rebel settlement). I never stated the Papal States will not attack neigboring rebel settlements. Why shouldn't it? I said the Papal States do not attack non-excom Christian factions. But, considering, again, that the Papacy at varying times throughout it's history controlled most of Italy, I don't see any reason why the Papacy shouldn't be taking Florence under it's benevolent miter.

But hey, if you want to code the Papacy in such a way as to prevent it from ever leaving Rome, and you are willing to go to any length to convince yourself that it is necessary to do so, and as historically implausible as that may be, and ignore all the wonderful historical information I just shared with you about how the Papacy did, in fact, always have territorial ambitions in Italy, then be my guest and so code it.

On another note, this is, in fact, just a game. If changing the Papacy makes the game better for you, then I really hope you are able to accomplish your goal.
Best of luck,
Candelarius

[rageallday]

Your first image (in the link) is simply the Pope in Greece...which is strange, but, hardly evidence of the Papal faction attacking fellow non-excommunicated Christian factions. I've never seen the Pope wandering around Greece in any of my campaigns before, but, there is always room for one-time weirdness by the game engine (which makes the game interesting and infinately replayable). This is hardly a reason to completely remove the ability of the Pope from leaving Rome, though.

With regards to the Pope attacking a rebel faction....yes, so what? The Papacy often attacks Florence in nearly every single campaign (when it is a rebel settlement). I never stated the Papal States will not attack neigboring rebel settlements. Why shouldn't it? I said the Papal States do not attack non-excom Christian factions. But, considering, again, that the Papacy at varying times throughout it's history controlled most of Italy, I don't see any reason why the Papacy shouldn't be taking Florence under it's benevolent miter.

But hey, if you want to code the Papacy in such a way as to prevent it from ever leaving Rome, and you are willing to go to any length to convince yourself that it is necessary to do so, and as historically implausible as that may be, and ignore all the wonderful historical information I just shared with you about how the Papacy did, in fact, always have territorial ambitions in Italy, then be my guest and so code it.

On another note, this is, in fact, just a game. If changing the Papacy makes the game better for you, then I really hope you are able to accomplish your goal.
Best of luck,
Candelarius

i just got served


by the way, is there anyway i can get more full stacks in retofit

seems at the start of the game the armies are all so tiny, even at turn 30

[Candelarius]

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the expression "I just got served". :hmmm:

But anyway, the best way to get more full stacks would be to play on very hard, I suppose. But the Retrofit is essentially exactly like vanilla, so, it really didn't do anything to increase or decrease stack sizes.

Honestly, though, it sounds to me like the Retrofit may not be the best mod for you. Have you considered the Kingdoms Grand Campaign Mod, by David Scarface? His mod contains the Retrofit, so you get all the goodies from that, but then also includes more full stack armies, new AI behaviors, and lots more...you may like it better.