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Thread: Suggestion for Elves

  1. #1
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Suggestion for Elves

    Hey, I love the Elven models you created and love this idea for a mod.

    Only issue I have is with the unit size of the Noldor. In the Third Age there were few Noldor remaining, but those that did were far more powerful than nearly any Man or Orc. Can I suggest giving them one-third the unit size but 3 hit points?

    Another thing is the power of the general, is there any way to make thier strength comparable to how it was in the lore of the books? I mean an Elf Lord was nearly as powerful as a Balrog, and though only a few remain in Middle Earth (Galadriel, Glorfindel, Celeborn, Elrond, and Ciradin) they are quite powerful.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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    Lü Bu's Avatar "Mightyest Man Alive"
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    i apsolutly like your suggestion
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    I agree with the Noldor, but I don't think the General should be THAT powerful - as you said, if we assume Elves led armies during the Third Age, not all of their generals could be Lords with the same power as Glorfindel because there weren't that many left.
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    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    Well those 5 could have the Elf Lord trait making them more powerful, and the rest of the Elven generals could be more regular.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

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    Varjon's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    No offense but just reminding that Celeborn and Cirdan aren't noldor andElrond is an half-elf. But I agree with your suggestion.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Well those 5 could have the Elf Lord trait making them more powerful, and the rest of the Elven generals could be more regular.
    Interesting idea, our idea was to make there numbers normal, but set their recruitment costs very high, as well as upkeep. That way you couldn't have too many elves.
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    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    Yes, but they are still Elf Lords...

    We don't know, as Tolkien didn't, what Celeborn is, and Cirdan though not Noldor was only a step below and was one of the Elf Lords, and one of the original Elves (as in first ones alive). Elrond is of Noldor, Numerian and Maiar Blood and very much an Elf Lord, taking over from Gil-Galad and his standard bearer. Furthermore he is the great-grandson of Beren who accomplished an impossible task and took a Simmalarion from Morgoth's crown.

    Code Knight: I say do both for the Noldor, make them expensive and low in unit number but extremely powerful in battle. Making them a valuable unit but one that can be decisive when used yet few in numbers thus must be used wisely.
    Last edited by Farnan; May 18, 2008 at 10:33 AM.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

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    Gampie's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    I would set their numbers to normal. A unit of 20 Elves on the battlefield looks pathetic. 60 is what it should be.
    The Noldor should be powerful though, at least 3 hitpoints for them and excellent stats. The best infantry in the game, period.

    I agree that they should be rare. So I suggest you:
    - raise upkeep and recruitment cost
    - make them only recruitable in high-level buildings
    - greatly increase their replenishment rate (ie. you have to wait 4 turns till you can recruit the next Noldor unit)

  9. #9
    Colonel Cleg McLeg's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    Yeah, I agree with Gampie. The way I see it, if their recruitment and upkeep costs are high, and if they take a long time to recruit, there won't be a need for reducing their unit size because you wouldn't have many elves on the battlefield anyway.

  10. #10
    Varjon's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    @ Farnan

    Well, Tolkien had 2 different stories about Celeborn. 1st was that he was one of teleri of Alqualondë and met Galadriel in there and another is that he was one of sindar and lived in Doriath under the power of Thingol and Melian.

    Actually Cirdan wasn't one of the first elven generation who just appeared from nowhere to Cuiviénen, he was one of next generation who born in there, but not one of the 144 first elves.

    Elrond was 1/2 human, 1/16 maia, 1/32 vanyar, 1/16 sindar and 1/4 noldor but not numenorean, his brother Elros was numenorean king, but Elrond's forefathers weren't numenoreans. Though he was elven lord he was only 1/4 noldor.
    Last edited by Varjon; May 18, 2008 at 11:34 AM.

  11. #11
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    Cirdan is one that is iffy, some say he was one of the first and some say he was second generation. Yea, Elrond's human forefather's were Beren and Tuor who were of the House of Beren and Hador. And he isn't 1/2 Human, he is only 3/8ths though he chose Elvishness over Humaness.

    What is funny is that Arwen and Aragorn are first cousins (many times removed though).
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  12. #12
    Varjon's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    No there is an article which tells about coming of the elves and Cirdan wasn't one of those first, he was a decendant of these first 144 elves.

    But Elrond's blood 1/2 was human blood even he chose "the path of an elf".

    And yeah, that's kinda funny even there were dozens of generations between Arwen and Aragon including kings of numenor, kings of arnor and chieftains of dunedain.

  13. #13
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    His Grandaddy and Great-Granddaddy were human meaning he is a little less than half human...

    But this is a bit off-topic.

    For those 5 I suggest a trait called Elf-Lord that will tweak them to make them possibly the most powerful figures in the game, except irreplaceable if lost.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  14. #14
    Varjon's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    I agree with you about that trait , but what qualities would it give to them? :hmmm:

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    Glorfindel's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    Elrond is a half elf but has in his veins the blood of the heavenly race (Maiar/Valar) so i think he IS a powerful one



    All Noldorin units should have 2 hitpoints except the powerful ones (e.g. "Noldorin Lords" unit-i don't know if it exists or the general's bodyguards)
    Glorfindel, the Lord of the House of the Golden Flower

    ...Glorfindel was tall and straight, his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of joy, his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music, on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was strength...

    ... the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power...


  16. #16
    Gampie's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by Varjon View Post
    I agree with you about that trait , but what qualities would it give to them?
    Additional hitpoints, personal security, public security and authority.

  17. #17
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorfindel View Post
    Elrond is a half elf but has in his veins the blood of the heavenly race (Maiar/Valar) so i think he IS a powerful one



    All Noldorin units should have 2 hitpoints except the powerful ones (e.g. "Noldorin Lords" unit-i don't know if it exists or the general's bodyguards)
    I say 3 for average Noldor, 2 for Sindar and the rest 1...

    And Noldor Lords should not be a unit, there are only about 5 Elven Lords, and only about 2 are full blooded Noldor.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  18. #18
    ccllnply's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    What about elven archers? Is there anyway of making them super accurate?


  19. #19

    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    At The battle of five armies there were quite a few wood elves with spears, bows, and some swords. Like close to 2-3 thousand elves and two thousand men. Then 500 dwarves are added in. Elves on one mountain spur, men on the other and dwarves in the middle.

    The grand total was about 5,000 against like ten thousand goblins and many hundreds on wolves. As well as a core bodyguard of Uruk type Orcs around Azog.

    Now the goblins that assaulted the elvish host were thrown back a couple of times but then in the afternoon I believe the elves were hard pressed, even though they had the high ground and the attackers had to fight upslope

    So the goblins fighting the elves probably outnumbered them approx 2-1 and yet, according to the story pressed the elves hard, even coming up and over and around the ridge, starting to flank them , until the eagles appeared, then end game.

    I'm just making a point from the LOTR storyline about who can beat who. The wood elves who were pretty good shots with bows were't exactly mowing them down, like then opening scene in the Fellowship.

    In fact, lucky Beorn showed up. The men too, were pressed hard and yieding 2500 men against 4,000 goblins and wolves.


    So even though, they're elves and had about 6,000 years to practice with bows and spears, they're getting chewed up by the evil twisted runts. Just throwing it out there.

  20. #20
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Suggestion for Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by Varjon View Post
    I agree with you about that trait , but what qualities would it give to them? :hmmm:
    Perhaps give them a unique body guard like Cortez in Kingdoms, that will use the same model and skin of the normal bodyguard but cause fear in the enemy. The Elven Lord trait can give them a huge amount of hitpoints, + Valor for his troops, nearly invincible perfect security (no assassinating) and morale boost for their forces. They should rule the battlefield, but be completely irreplaceable and losing one should be something you should hate. The only enemy unit that should be able to halt of them may be the Nazguls as a whole, all 9, and that should be a close fight at that.

    The Elven faction shouldn't be invincible, it should have low numbers of soldiers, but it should have powerful soldiers.

    About the Battle of Five Armies, remember that there the Elves were Sylvan Elves mostly, and not Sindar or Noldor. They also probably numbered only in the hundreds.
    Last edited by Farnan; May 18, 2008 at 04:53 PM.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

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