You are more then welcome to do that
You are more then welcome to do that
Very good rocking song. The message of the song: WHEN PEOPLE LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINIAN WAR, THEY WILL GO INSANE!! (I suggest to turn the english subtitles on. Its over 18only because of violent pictures) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAR6nUV7VI
To avoid more PMs I should say something, too.
First I see no problem if you make a mod representing Csák Máté's dominions. Everybody is free to make anything.
Yes, he built a quite strong state in the state and ruled independently.
Maybe you confused a bit the role of the nádor with the vajda of Transylvania or the báns from the soutern part. The nádor wasn't a ruler of a certain land it was a general title.
So there were no Upper-Hungarian nádor or Southern-Hungarian nádor etc., only The nádor. (For the sake of onlookers Slovakia as a term didn't existed till the 20th century.)
Find this faction a suitable name and it would be ok.
I'm quite curious what 'Privilegeum Slovacum' mean. I run a search without any results. I tried some variants thinking about some spelling mistakes but still no results.
I was not offering my help, i was only trying to tell you that including the lands of Csák is like instead of Poland having all the little provinces...
And btw. Leon-Castile - such entity did not exist in 1300.
I know you weren´t but there are some limits. And we must do what is priority for us. Not for Polish. /factions limits, units, historic facts etc/
And as for Leon-Castile faction. I am in history about 7 years but ONLY the Slovakian and Ugrian history. Nothing else. If you want to be good, you must choose your priorities But some of my colleagues they do Spanish history. So it´s not a problem ask them. But thank you for your tip anyway.
Very good rocking song. The message of the song: WHEN PEOPLE LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINIAN WAR, THEY WILL GO INSANE!! (I suggest to turn the english subtitles on. Its over 18only because of violent pictures) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAR6nUV7VI
I think the Slovakian palatinate is the best name we could use. Becasue Matthew Csak had this title and if you look to the english dictionary you will find this explanation: Slovakian palatinate - land of Slovak people ruled /liable/ by the palatine. I think we really could´not use better name. Who was the people living there? Slovaks. Who was the ruler? Palatine. The problem is, most of this people here dont know what exactly palatinate means and they are too lazy to look to the dictionary
Privilegeum Slovacum is a special order from hungarian king for Slovakian people. Because there was too many Germans in some cities nad they started to push out Hungarians and Slovaks from local councils. With this order king made a rule that only Slovaks can be in local councils in Slovakian cities etc.
Edit: Try to check your local library in some history books. There is a lot of b......t on the internet
Last edited by SirPeacemaker; May 19, 2008 at 02:09 PM.
Very good rocking song. The message of the song: WHEN PEOPLE LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINIAN WAR, THEY WILL GO INSANE!! (I suggest to turn the english subtitles on. Its over 18only because of violent pictures) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAR6nUV7VI
By Slovaks, you mean the Slavic-Magyar people that were actually inhabiting the lands?
Last edited by SirPeacemaker; May 19, 2008 at 02:25 PM.
Very good rocking song. The message of the song: WHEN PEOPLE LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINIAN WAR, THEY WILL GO INSANE!! (I suggest to turn the english subtitles on. Its over 18only because of violent pictures) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAR6nUV7VI
They didn't even call themselves Slovaks till the beggining of 1400...
Edit: But anyway, its your mod, and you can do whatever you like in it.
Historical accurancy is impossible in MTW2 so i guess i should stop bugging you
Last edited by gracul; May 19, 2008 at 02:38 PM.
Oh really? Ok. I reckon you can speak latin. So look to the latin dictionary and find the 13th century. What can you see? You can see Slovacia - Slovacum. /Privilegium Slovacum etc/ And I am talking about 13th century.
If you are not very familiar with history just don´t write here ok? Thank you /maybe you are good in Polish history I dont know. But obviously not in this one /
Very good rocking song. The message of the song: WHEN PEOPLE LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINIAN WAR, THEY WILL GO INSANE!! (I suggest to turn the english subtitles on. Its over 18only because of violent pictures) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAR6nUV7VI
Well, i cannot find what you said, but in 1381 the Hungarian king gave an act called from latin "Privilegium pro Slavis" that gave rights to the slovak(slovaks only to todays historians, to eaisily distinguish them from other slavic groups) people inhabitating Hungary. Thats no Slovacum, it is hard to say "oh no they called themselves slovak, but unfortunately the king of Hungary that lived in 1381 was dumb enough to call them Slav"... They did not even call themselves Slovak, historians use Slovak, to show that it was the slavic group of people influenced by Moravia, Hungary and Poland. It is the same like with Polanes before forming of the Duchy of Poland, who were SLAV people, but just out of simplicity, and not saying "Slav group that inhabitated the land west of Vistula river etc.." historians are calling them Polanes. Its the like same with Eastern Roman Empire, it was renamed by historians to Byzantine later.
Yes, im not very familiar with history, and that is why i will not take part of this discussion anymore. But remember that this rule should work for everyone that post here, and its quite stupid not to be able to post in own mod thread, right?Originally Posted by SirPeacemaker
Maybe you should look to the latin dictionary as I said But I know what you mean. Privilegium pro Slavis is something different /but well known/ because it belongs only to Zilina city nothing more or less. And I can assure you that in latin dictionary from 13th century you can find Slovacia or Slovacum. I had big discussion about the name Slovacia because the historians said that would be absolutelly correct. But we are not doing this mod in latin are we? And to use english translation of Slovacia to Slovakia is not appropiate on my opinion. That is why we used slovakian palatinate. I think it´s the best way.
And as for renaming the races. According the latest discoveries in archeology there weren´t only Slavs but Slovens as well. Most likely ancestors of Slovaks. And by the way. If you look on the map on page 1 very carefully you can see that Csaks dominiom doesn´t belong to Hungary. Watch very carefully boarders of all miniprincipalities and you can see soft blue color around their borders. It means they belongs to Hungary /or Ugrian Kingdom if you like/ But in Matthew´s dominion it´s not.
We are very good in our history but not in anyone´s else. If you can help us just help us. Because there is nothing like expert for everything
Very good rocking song. The message of the song: WHEN PEOPLE LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINIAN WAR, THEY WILL GO INSANE!! (I suggest to turn the english subtitles on. Its over 18only because of violent pictures) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAR6nUV7VI
Do you really think I will research the Hungarian history in the English dictionary???
However I was curious and made a net search to 'Slovakian palatinate'. There are only 4 citations to this term and all of them are about your mod.
...and Hungarians and some Germans.Who was the people living there? Slovaks.
Again, the palatines didn't ruled certain lands how the vajda or the báns did. The Csák Máté didn't ruled this part of Hungary BECAUSE he was the palatine but because he inherited and occupied it.Who was the ruler? Palatine.
Btw in the years for struggling for the Hungarian throne and when the royal power was weak (1301-1312) there were 6 palatines in the country where normally was only one.
I'm afraid you are the person who don't know what was the palatine.The problem is, most of this people here dont know what exactly palatinate means and they are too lazy to look to the dictionary
You like wiki so here is what it says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatin..._of_Hungary%29
I don't say it is fully reliable but generally it is ok.
'Privilegeum Slovacum' shows only one link - your post.Privilegeum Slovacum is a special order from hungarian king for Slovakian people. Because there was too many Germans in some cities nad they started to push out Hungarians and Slovaks from local councils. With this order king made a rule that only Slovaks can be in local councils in Slovakian cities etc.
Edit: Try to check your local library in some history books. There is a lot of b......t on the internet
But when I looked more into the theme I found this: Privilegium pro Slavis.
Interesting. Google shows immediately 1260 results. And even its subject differs a bit from your interpretation.
Do not mix palatinate and palatine. Because you just made it
Everyone palatine had his own dominion /miniprincipality/ but they had to be loyal to his majesty.
You totally don´t understand because you are lost in translation /I mean palatinate/. Palatine was a title. It was first title after the king. And OF COURSE it doesn´t mean he is a ruler of an exact land./I agree with you in this/ But in this case it means! Because he called himself a supreme palatine and a supreme ruler of his land. So how should we call him? King? I dont think so. Or supreme palatine and supreme ruler as he called himself? I don´t think so.
And I did not tell you to search for Hungarian history in english dictionary. I told you to seach for the expression PALATINATE. Because it´s an english word you know
I have tried to explain before, but I can do it again for you. I am looking to the english dictionary now: Palatinate - a land ruled by a palatine. But we must be more specific dont we? Because the mod is about Matthew´s dominion and his dominion is where Slovaks live. So it must be a land with slovakian population = Slovakian. Ruler is not king, but supreme palatine according himself. So what have we got? Slovakian palatinate. Is it clearer now?
And what makes you think that if something is not on the internet it doesn´t exist??? There is a lot of things you just can not find on the internet. Only in old books, special books, magazines etc.
I have explained privilegium pro Slavis earlier
And where did you get it I like wiki??? I am the first enemy of wiki. But I can not show you books can I ?
Hopefully you got my point now.
Last edited by SirPeacemaker; May 19, 2008 at 05:14 PM.
Very good rocking song. The message of the song: WHEN PEOPLE LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINIAN WAR, THEY WILL GO INSANE!! (I suggest to turn the english subtitles on. Its over 18only because of violent pictures) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAR6nUV7VI
Ok, this is the only historical document that was granting right to the Slavs on the northern Hungarian territories. So there was no right that you described a couple of posts earlier if this one is not it.
Great, like i said in 1201 Slovaks didn't even name THEMSELVES Slovaks, so try not to assure but to state some facts.
YES, it is correct to call them Slovaks, in order to distinguish them from other Slav groups, for simplicity.So, they were speaking in an indo-asiatic language before the Slavs came there? Probably they were related to Nostradamus as well. What about the duchies that were part of Poland back then? They don't have the Polish colour around them? Yes, I even broken what i've said before that i won't take a part of this discussion, in order to help you discover what history you really had.
I beg to differ, Medieval Palatines were nothing more then governors, but instead of administrating cities, they acted like overseers of several towns/cities/villages in their land, could call them supreme governors.LOL!!! Yes, and Alfonso VI of Castile called himselfe "Emperor of All Spinard", when 1/2 of Iberian Peninsula was in hands of Muslims...So its dominion or palatinate, because you use both and i get confused if you are trying to tell us something or you just got lost. Palatinate is a part of some larger entity (like a kingdom), it is not an autonimic region or anything like that... Hello, maybe thats why it's called dominion on the map huh?Ok. A land where Poles live, its past 1100 and we have the ruler who is a Duke, how we call it? Duchy of Poland? NO! we call it the Kingdom of Poland. So could it be a Slovakian Palatinate? NO, for explanation look up, and as a hint i'll also tell you that if you want to refer to a "rebel region with its own army, government, etc. and not recognized by the Pope" then you would be very close in calling it more of a Duchy, then a Palatinate.Espeically in very special books only you and your 'historians' have.Sorry, i still don't get your point. Just don't speak about being oh all the history we don't know, and what discussions you had with wanna-be historians. A Slovakian Palatinate is just a fiction, you might as well place rebels on the map with Leia as the leader, since Byzantine is the Empire.
I hope you will have no more doubts and will drop the "historically accurate mod" out of your mod. I'm not saying the mod will be bad, im not saying the idea is bad, im just saying that i differ in the "historically accurate", because your mod Sir, with a Slovakian Palatinate, is not historically accurate. However, if im truly wrong, then post some prove, or bring here someone that could state the facts with either direct references to historical events, or could come up with a logical way of thinking, that without doubt could show me that i am wrong.
@SirPeacemaker: read my previous post carefully again.
[quote=gracul;3079708]
Great, like i said in 1201 Slovaks didn't even name THEMSELVES Slovaks, so try not to assure but to state some facts.
Prove it !!
And I BEG YOUR PARDON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW EVEN DARE YOU to call our historians "so called" historians??? Are you nuts???? They teach on university for God´s sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO ARE YOU??? WHO???? WHAT ARE YOUR SKILLS??? WHAT IS YOUR REFERRENCE??? And WHO THE HELL you think I am???
I will tel you who you are!! You are "educated" person from internet only and that is it!! And 16 years old probably.
I am about 7 years in history and I never read an article on internet about history, because I can imagine the sources. Just the opposite!
Some guys asked me for a help whit their mod and that is what I am doing!!!!!!
I will explain everything for you again. Palatine is king´s replacement. When King is away palatine is the boss. /Hopefully you get it so far/ There was no king in Hungary /or Ugrian kingdom if you like/ for time being. Palatine was the supreme ruler of all Hungary. But when King was back, palatine was only palatine. Palatine means - Kings replacement. Palatinate means a land what is ruled by a palatine /and where is his dominion it´s a palatinate/. King Charles tried take the titel Palatine away from Matthew. But Metthew kept it. Matthew said - You are not my king! And Charles said - You are not my Palatine! Matthew claimed himself to supreme palatine and supreme ruler of his dominion. Coincidentally it was dominions with Slovakian cities. We cannot use title duke, because historically he had the highest title Palatine and he claimed he is supreme palatine. /And not to mention his other title: Vilicus res Slovacum/ I reckon you can speak latin so no need to translate it for you.
So is the best way to stay correct and call his dominion: A land ruled by a king´s replacement where Slovaks live. A think this is the best expression We can do and the most correct.
I am not charging you for these informations so far. /Normally I charge 10 euros per hour /
But save your breath. You cannot prove anything you said. And you have offended enough people. If you still dont get it its your problem. There will be Palatinate whether you like it or not!! Because Its the most correct expression we can use. We cannot a make up title because it suits you! That´s never gonna happen!!!!
Another explanation for you from web: A palatinate is a territory administered by a count palatine, originally the direct representative of a sovereign, but later the hereditary ruler of the territory subject to the crown's overlordship.
And here is a message from OXFORD university especially for you:
palatine (of a count or county) possessing royal privileges XV; sb. lord having sovereign power over a province or dependency of an empire or realm XVI. — F. palatin(e) — L. palātīnus
And from now on stop wasting my time!! I have got more important things to do.
Very good rocking song. The message of the song: WHEN PEOPLE LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINIAN WAR, THEY WILL GO INSANE!! (I suggest to turn the english subtitles on. Its over 18only because of violent pictures) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAR6nUV7VI
Not that I'm interested in the discussion here, but just thought I should correct you there - Slavs and Slovenes are more or less the same thing. The Slovenes are the Southern group of Slavs (the Venedi being the Western Slavic group and the Anti - the Eastern), from which the English word Slavs (and Bulgarian Slaviani etc. etc.) most probably comes from. So Sloveni is a supplementary sub-group of Slavs, not something different from Slavs, as it sounded in the sentence above.
Very good rocking song. The message of the song: WHEN PEOPLE LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINIAN WAR, THEY WILL GO INSANE!! (I suggest to turn the english subtitles on. Its over 18only because of violent pictures) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAR6nUV7VI
The exact prove you can find in the name of the act given to Slav people in the Hungarian town of Zlina in 1381.
And those historians said there was a Slovak Palatinate? If they teach on university, they certainly ain't teaching history.Offending me in order to show that i am not right is a rather poor way of persuading people on your side.By this sentence i understand that your at age of 7, since you are 7 years in history.
Wow, the King certainly had many replacements since there were many Palatinates governing the lands of the country in the same time. Palatine is kings replacement is some of his jobs, and it doesn't matter if the king is in the country or not. A palatine was a more of a judge overseeing certain cases and issuing/enforcing local law...So why didn’t csak take whole Hungary, but he only had small lands up the north?Ok, so if csak was kings replacement on the lands of what you call "his palatine", then who was the supreme sovereign of the lands? OK LETS TRANSLATE!
Sorry, i don't understand and you'll need to explain it to me again. How come Mathhew wanted to be a "Kings replacement" to a "You are not my king!"...Code:"King Charles tried take the titel "Kings replacement" away from Matthew. But Metthew kept it. Mathew said - You are not my king!"
With present day Slovakian citiesProbably he had the title of a steward, but that "slovacum"... you had to thought it up because there is NO REFERENCE IN HISTORY TO "SLOVACUM" TILL THE BEGGINING OF 1400's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a land ruled by a self-called sovereign without the acceptation of any legitimate European power.
Fantasy takes time eh?
No Mr, you cannot prove anything you said. If i say that my grandfather was a descendant from Atlantis, and ill tell you "try to find blablabla - it proves im right" and such thing would never exist, does that mean that i am right? And btw, what kind of a historian are you if you do not even base on facts. Oh sorry, i should leave you alone because a whole council of historians was working on this and i cannot say anything about it because im wrong!Most correct in what terms...Kings replacement on his own lands? So it was his own land, or kings land?I never said that i want your mod to be called something else, or that i want anything changed in it. Wow you are actually providing proves for me. Wow man, thanks.What i see, not of a kingodm, 2 centuries later, + still proves that i am right saying that its just a dependency of a larger entity. Trying to prove your point is a waste of time for you? You speak unlike any person having to do anything with history that i ever seen.
Have you ever read about Slav history? How come on the lands of present day Slovakia there could be some kind of an ethnic group that was connected to Slavs before the Slavs moved there? Don’t tell me that they had contact on Skype and MSN.
And if you want to prove anything, then maybe your historians should come here and share their knowledge on this case. You have proven nothing over the couple of posts and you are unable to present counter-facts to what i stated in my posts.
Omg
Slovakia was independent for 21 years. We know, that we have true and nobody changed it,,,You don´t care about our history, when we don´t know about it ok?