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Thread: Etruscans....Roma

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    Red_legged_devils's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Etruscans....Roma

    How much Info do you guys have on there military and arms...the internet isent a very good place to find info on there military....everytime i look its one website copying info from anouther website and not alot of art work Ie paintings done by mondren artiest about them....or samnites...every photo ive came across on google photos ive saved...So how much is really known about there formation and arms?

    Also the roman hoplites (Triarii) The Eb's early Triarii is the best ive ever seen..Beautfiul unit golden bronze shild and armor....I looked at the early unit prviews and all i see is the new ogrinzed army where are the old etruscan copys at? i fear that you have skipped that point remembering roma copyed everything thy have lol from others....Isent that sad being conqured by your own tec.... rome was the china of its time pirateing military tec and everything ealse

  2. #2
    Opifex
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    We'll have a fully featured Etruscan preview some time soon, just like we did with the Greeks. All I can tell you for now is that they'll have plenty of hoplites, will have three whopping factions, a whole chunk of Italy, and lots of cultural dominance. Also you'll be able to see quite a few of their paintings in various graphics and building images.

    EB has an interpretation of Roman military history that we disagree with, and that is not very strongly supported by evidence. In our mod, the hoplite Roman legion will be long gone, and you will have the Camillan legion as described by Livy in book VIII. That means, something similar to the Polybian legion, except without velites, and with rorarii, and accensi in their place.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
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    Red_legged_devils's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    [QUOTE=SigniferOne;3041178]We'll have a fully featured Etruscan preview some time soon, just like we did with the Greeks. All I can tell you for now is that they'll have plenty of hoplites, will have three whopping factions, a whole chunk of Italy, and lots of cultural dominance. Also you'll be able to see quite a few of their paintings in various graphics and building images.

    EB has an interpretation of Roman military history that we disagree with, and that is not very strongly supported by evidence. In our mod, the hoplite Roman legion will be long gone, and you will have the Camillan legion as described by Livy in book VIII. That means, something similar to the Polybian legion, except without velites, and with rorarii, and accensi in their place.[/QUO

    Hmmmm I don't know The Camillan hoplites looked pretty nice...see thats the problem with starting at the end of the etruscan peired you said this wasent about Roma or any faction but it looks like thats really indirectly what your trying to say....roma was a nobody and the etruscans where top of the food chain....the romans where very unfair when it came to the etruscans and talking about them....Roman was jealous of everyone lol

    And there IS plenty of Proof of Camillan hoplites...SO im not quite sure what your talking about the romans had hoplites for along long time....a Long time....I guess i could always mod them in...i love hoplites and i was sad to see that one greek city state mod go down.There was a battle that after that the romans stopped useing hoplites but im pretty sure it was after thy had finished off the etruscans....I'm not a fan of later roman military so this mod is what ive been looking for for along time and i had feared that it had died thank god lol
    Last edited by Red_legged_devils; May 10, 2008 at 05:05 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    I didn't say the Romans never fought in the Etruscan manner. They clearly did, more specifically in the 6th and 5th centuries BC, to which the Lavinium steles refer to in depicting archaic Latin soldiers. By our period Romans will be fighting with something different. I'm not sure what your post refers to.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
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    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
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    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
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    Red_legged_devils's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...US256%26sa%3DN

    Sorry for the huge link..not sure how to insurt photos....This is the unit im speaking about...I don't disagree with you at all its more a matter of looks and flavor, there first tiarii unit was a hoplite but you skipped the camillan reforms why? where the etruscans not gone practicly with the one you already have in game? I dont know my memory is a bit shoddy in this area...But mostly i like the looks of the units over the newer roman units that look to much like the later ones....This was one other reasion that attacted me to this mod was the fact that there where no more Roman legian spaming of all the same armor and looks i hate that there must be amillion games on the market with the same old boreing legians....Im not trying to argue or put down your work sorry if that is what it looks like..im trying to find some info in the dark here with out a flash light lol feeling around.

    thy look nice..and i supose i just wan'ted a roman hoplite unit and pretend the mod started alittle bit earlyer would it be possiable to add or mod in that unit for my self? if i wan't to?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    Sure you'd be able to add any units you wanted to later on.

    You won't find 'the same old boring legions' in our mod. For one, there won't be any Romans wearing chainmail, but rather other kinds of equipment -- various sorts of pectoral plates, lamellar, muscular armor etc. Plus there will be all sorts of other differences with the later legion, such as the tactical layout and the differences involving accensi and rorarii. There's a story that the Accensi were much less dependable than the Triarii, but superficially had some of the similar equipment, so in one battle they were sent to the front to lure the enemy into thinking that Triarii were engaged and thus the whole Roman reserve was committed. Meanwhile the Triarii themselves wheeled around and flanked the enemy, achieving victory.

    See our first preview for a few screenshots of the Roman units.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

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    Red_legged_devils's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    Sure you'd be able to add any units you wanted to later on.

    You won't find 'the same old boring legions' in our mod. For one, there won't be any Romans wearing chainmail, but rather other kinds of equipment -- various sorts of pectoral plates, lamellar, muscular armor etc. Plus there will be all sorts of other differences with the later legion, such as the tactical layout and the differences involving accensi and rorarii. There's a story that the Accensi were much less dependable than the Triarii, but superficially had some of the similar equipment, so in one battle they were sent to the front to lure the enemy into thinking that Triarii were engaged and thus the whole Roman reserve was committed. Meanwhile the Triarii themselves wheeled around and flanked the enemy, achieving victory.

    See our first preview for a few screenshots of the Roman units.
    If im not mistakein The falcata was more common with hoplites and etruscan hoplites i have one myself...and its very very long, your screens show the short gladious that the romans got from the iberians and it would be awhile yet before the latins got ahold of them....unless those are some sort of greek or native italian short swords? I ment the etuscans to lazy to go back and edit lol..and those swords are very long? the stright swords are those celtic? or maybe just the screen shot is streched a bit in the first preview, The helments are very very nice to maybe a bit more color in and in shild patterns...i know red and blue are common etruscan themes and green....but none the less still very plesaeing to look at....

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    Here is an article on 27 newly discovered Etruscan tombs, and a painting from the Tomb of the Leopards:



    There's nothing mysterious about the hispanic gladius or its powers. Prior to that the Roman soldiers used what the Greeks called the xiphos, in reality just a short sword, which was hardly very different:

    Last edited by SigniferOne; May 10, 2008 at 06:49 PM.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

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    Red_legged_devils's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    Here is an article on 27 newly discovered Etruscan tombs, and a painting from the Tomb of the Leopards:



    There's nothing mysterious about the hispanic gladius or its powers. Prior to that the Roman soldiers used what the Greeks called the xiphos, in reality just a short sword, which was hardly very different:

    Ive been to some of those tombs a couple of my ojects come from tarquinia.

    Anyways...I know theres nouthing Mysterious about them lol....I hope for the sake of argument if there cannot be hoplite romans there should be no swords that look like a gladius the detail of the sword model should reflect the differnce hopefuly. Again not trying to argue..

    I can't wait to see what the hoplite animations look like compard to EB's classic greek hoplites formation that was amazeing if anyones played it....when put on hold ground it was nearly impossiable to break them or kill them with missles and there formation was packed very very ttightly thy did a good job with hoplite animations...of course yours could turn out to be better becouse we dont know of any other (True) Hoplite formation other then RTW's that was bad. So hopefuly things will pan out well in the end product.....I just hope the greek city states or atlest half of greece will make it into the game some day down the road....

  10. #10

    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    Here is an article on 27 newly discovered Etruscan tombs, and a painting from the Tomb of the Leopards:



    There's nothing mysterious about the hispanic gladius or its powers. Prior to that the Roman soldiers used what the Greeks called the xiphos, in reality just a short sword, which was hardly very different:

    That is the short Spartan type xiphos, IIRC. The more common one has a blade length of about 60 cm (23.5").

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    Red_legged_devils's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    There will be a latin genocide the first chance that i get....The world will rememeber those filty latin peasants when ever thy think of judas and the other weak city states who dare call them selfs rasenna!!

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    Mylae's Avatar Memento Mori
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_legged_devils View Post
    There will be a latin genocide the first chance that i get....The world will rememeber those filty latin peasants when ever thy think of judas and the other weak city states who dare call them selfs rasenna!!
    well... from our first betatesting report, seems that the AI let romans get bashed by etruscans and disappear - obviously in the final version will happen quite the opposite, anyway romans will not have such an easy journey.


    beside, we have based our mod with the infos taken from Livius, book VIII.
    Last edited by Mylae; May 11, 2008 at 10:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    Quote Originally Posted by Mylae View Post
    well... from our first betatesting report, seems that the AI let romans get bashed by etruscans and disappear - obviously in the final version will happen quite the opposite, anyway romans will not have such an easy journey.


    beside, we have based our mod with the infos taken from Livius, book VIII.
    Well thats what those filty uneducated peasants get for attempting to steal someone ealses glory and hard work I can't wait to run them out of italy and burn there shacks down, the romans where by far worse then the chinese at stealing ideas and just about every thing under the sun and calling it there own from day one....and the samnites will be tripping over them selfs to get out of the way and all the unclean yet well shaven barbarians will be swimming for greese and out of my back yard, Besides all those hairy barbarians and peasent shacks brang down the value of the realistate i plan on bribeing off to the spartans while my wagon train of traveling gypys make our get away

    Think we'll settle in Iberia nouthing but a bunch of harmless sheep herders and farmers living there anyways Right:hmmm:

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    Someone got overexcited
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    I did a little research not sure if accurate so im asking will the polybian legion (Polybius was a Roman historian, not a general, and the name of the general who imposed the organization is lost to history) consisted of three main lines of battle and a force of skirmishers. The main lines of battle were the hastati or swift ones, and the principes or main line, and the triarii or third line. The century of 80 men was the basic building block for the first two lines, and these lines were organized into 10 maniples of 2 centuries each, or 1,600 men. The third line of triarii consisted of 10 detachments each of 1 century of triarii and 1 century of skirmishers, who were known as velites. The velites skirmished in front of the hastati and then fell back and rallied behind the triarii. One of the main distinctions between the classes of legionaries was how much property they owned. Velites, in particular, lacked the resources for the full chainmail, heavy shield, greaves and helmet expected of the triarii. Principes and hastati were usually in mail by this period, although the earlier pectoral defense may still have been in use. These two battle lines were equipped with pila, while the velites had lighter javelins, and the triarii traditionally had the 12-foot hasta or Greek thrusting spear. This force thus consisted of approximately 4,800 men, or 4-5 DBA elements. Is this true?

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    Yes it's true, for the time of the 2nd Punic War about a hundred years from our mod. The prior Roman army was largely similar but with a few differences. I direct your attention to Livy's famous description of the Camillan legion in book VIII. The Romans and the Latins had a civil War, and since they were exactly the same country, just different cities, it was basically the same armies fighting one another, giving Livy an opportunity to describe the Legion as it existed ~340 BC, precisely when our mod starts:

    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Li...#livy.hist.8.8

    Graphically, it is laid out here:

    http://www.roman-empire.net/army/army.html#earlylegion
    Last edited by SigniferOne; May 13, 2008 at 02:06 AM.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  17. #17

    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    o wow that was kool thanks xD great read ^^

    Remember Constantinople
    mr bush how can u put people in jail for smoking weed when you smoke weed. that makes you a hypocrite. bush says do you like hand jobs. the guy says hell yea. bush says do you like giving hand jobs. the guy says no. bush says well then your a fing hypocrite to!!!.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    He's is a Classic, still after 2,000 years. That's also why for 500 years we've lovingly called him "Livy" and not by the stiff "Titus Livius" by which he was known to his friends.
    Last edited by SigniferOne; May 13, 2008 at 07:54 PM.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  19. #19

    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    good links man tnx!! +rep!!

    you too RomaVictor6969, for your research

    Valerius Tiberius

    edit: just thought of something, could you add that when the Triarii don't move they go sit on one knee? it would be super!! (maybe also shield on the back and spear in the ground but that sounds a little to hard )
    but this will maybe get annoying, everytime they stop they go sit like that, so maybe make it a special abbility? and that way they also get less tired more quickly

    (ps: i know shield wall is the special abbility now, but maybe change that to the "loose formation" button, like in SPQR TW, that way you have room for a special abbility )
    Last edited by Valerius Tiberius; May 14, 2008 at 07:52 AM.
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  20. #20
    Mylae's Avatar Memento Mori
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    Default Re: Etruscans....Roma

    Quote Originally Posted by Valerius Tiberius View Post
    good links man tnx!! +rep!!

    you too RomaVictor6969, for your research

    Valerius Tiberius

    edit: just thought of something, could you add that when the Triarii don't move they go sit on one knee? it would be super!! (maybe also shield on the back and spear in the ground but that sounds a little to hard )
    but this will maybe get annoying, everytime they stop they go sit like that, so maybe make it a special abbility? and that way they also get less tired more quickly

    (ps: i know shield wall is the special abbility now, but maybe change that to the "loose formation" button, like in SPQR TW, that way you have room for a special abbility )
    the problem is that iw will be quite hard to do....
    by now, it should not be considered as a priority. We are focusing to the necessary work to release a public beta asap, with (almost) no bugs.
    then it will come the time of scripts and particular features, and then - in the end - issues like this that could be easily postponed.
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