Hoplites with Shields...(and cavalry)

[Antiochos VII Sidetes]

Will Hoplites function like they did in RTW? (I.E., the most amazing infantry in the game) Or, will they be more like M2TW Pikemen?

Also, is it even possible to put shields on pike units?

Finally,

How will Heavy Cavalry function? This era did not have advanced saddles, or stirrups. Will Heavy Cav be as big of a factor as in M2TW, or less important?

I didn't think any factions on the Italian Peninsula had decent heavy cavalry.

[SigniferOne]

Hoplites will function like they do in mods which used my animations: they'll be very closely bunched together, with spears raised overhead. Also if I can get it to work, farther ranks will rest and hold their spears up straight, while hoplites near the front of the formation will hold them overhead at battle-ready.

It certainly is possible to put shields on pike units. In fact, every single of our pike units, that is the phalangites Pyrrhus brought over with him to Italy, will have shields. These won't be massive hoplite shields, but rather light ones, held by a strap.

Heavy Cavalry is an interesting question. Of course you're right, the era didn't have stirrups, but saddles were another story. It may postdate our mod, but in fact, Roman horned saddles were more advanced than anything you would subsequently see in Europe for 1500 years, and they filled the function of a heavy knight charger saddle, by pinning the soldier's thighs down, and by absorbing the shock to his lower back, preventing him from flying out. Here's a depiction:






The horned saddle was famously reconstructed by Peter Connolly in 1986, proving all of the hypotheses that the saddle would absorb the shocks of a heavy-cavalry charge:

http://www.jstor.org/sici?sici=0068-...S%3E2.0.CO;2-G

[Hister]

How will Heavy Cavalry function? This era did not have advanced saddles, or stirrups. Will Heavy Cav be as big of a factor as in M2TW, or less important?

I didn't think any factions on the Italian Peninsula had decent heavy cavalry.

Sabellian tribe Campani had the most famous and deadly cavalry throughout the whole paeninsula which was able to make a devastating charge on the battlefield. Don't think that cavalry units were in that time only made for reconnaissance and flanking the foe. As much as 40 % of all soldiers were mounted in Celtic armies!

Some factions like Romani and Ligures indeed didn't rely heavily on horse riders but many other factions did!

[Valerius Tiberius]

wow, good stuff guys, both +rep

Valerius Tiberius

[Hister]

Ha ha, thank you Valerius!

[Antiochos VII Sidetes]

Well, okay then. Guess I was wrong...The Peninsula DOES have good cav.

+rep for info, guys!

[SigniferOne]

Note, I'm not saying the Campanians had an equivalent of the 13th century Gothic behemoths. First of all these Gothic knights extorted a pension from thousands of serfs to afford that sort of armor, and also it had its own corresponding metallurgy improvements.

What I'm saying is that the principle of a heavy cavalry, to disrupt and rout an organized infantry unit through heavily armored lance and charge, existed long before said Gothic knights. Sarmatians were famous for it in the East, Macedonians dabbled in it, and Campanians have a claim to it as well. And the reason why the Campanians could do it without the stirrup was that they had the more advanced saddle. So in principle a few cavalry regions will indeed provide cavalry which is armed heavily and relies on a heavy charge for its biggest effect.

[Antiochos VII Sidetes]

Sounds good to me. I wouldn't know what to do without my heavy cavalry to mop up those darn heavy infantry.

Good to know.

[Luciano B]

The Campanian cavalry is the most famous example of ancient Italian heavy cavalry, reputed as the best of the peninsula.
Also the Iapygians, in particular the Messapii, had a reputation of horsemanship and fielded the highest percentage of mounted forces of whole Italy. The Greek Tarentum fielded an heavy cavlary corps numbering 1000 horsemen, named "hipparchoi" (to not be confused with the generic officer definition of "hipparchos"). Ancient art depicts Lucanian and Oscan Nolan heavy cavalrymen very similar to the nearby Campanians.

About the ratio of the mounted troops related to the overall number of armed men actually fielded, it varies from nation to nation. Our first piece of informations on the subject comes from Polybius, who in the course of a digression concerning the wars fought between Rome and the Gauls, gives the numbers of the forces called on by the Romans for the Telamon campaing in 225 BC, and breacks them down into ethnic contingents.

He says that the joint forces of the Etrsucans and the Sabines fielded 50.000 infantry and 4.000 cavalry; the Umbri 20.000 infantry and 2.000 cavalry; the Samnites 70.000 infantry and 7.000 cavalry; the Sabellic tribes 20.000 ifantry and 4.000 cavalry; the joint forces of the Apuli and Messapii 50.000 infantry and 16.000 cavalry; the Lucani 30.000 infantry and 3.000 cavalry; the amount of Roman citizens and Campanians allies recruitable (not those who effectively took the filed) numbered 250.000 infantry and 23.000 cavalry - note that by 225 BC were Roman citizens not only the Romans and the Campanians, but also the Latins, the Hernici, the Volsci, the Aurunci, the greatest part of the Sabini and of the Picentes, a large portion of the Etruscans and of the Umbri.

About the other nations, we know that the joint forces of the Veneti and Cenomani made their contribution to the Roman effort with 20.000 men during the Telamon campaign, but probably it was not the whole force available; the Veneti were another nation accredited of a relevant horsemanship; the Brettii joined later Hannibal with 15.000 infatrymen (probably the cavalry percentage was minimal), but it happened when the forces of the Brettii were already in a depleted status ...probably in their best days of the 4th century BC they were able to field a larger force.

The Gallic coalition which inlcuded the Insubres, Boii, the celtoligurian Taurini and the transalpine Gaesatae mercenaries fielded in the battle of Telamon 50.000 infantry and 20.000 cavalry and charioteers ...so almost 1/3 of the Gallic army present at the battle was formed by mounted forces.

[Antiochos VII Sidetes]

Urgh...I feel like a know-nothing next to you people. My interest is military history, and I thought I was decent at it...

You guys blow me outta the water.

(Still, just means the mod will be better!)