Discussion: The Atabeg of Azerbaijan

[Eisberg]

"Atabeg" don't mean "king". I would rather like to see Royal Guard available when a player conquer much of territory (Seljuk or not, it could be determined by the script) and he gets a title of "al-sultan al-mu'azzam" (I've read that Sanjar called that way sultan Berk-yaruk) - it could trigger some elite units. Until then it could be only Atabeg Guard.

Well yess, Atabeg is not a King, but its also a Rank, kind of Militant gouverneur ,
he also had a title of EMIR, but thats one is arabic, and Atabeg is Turkic ..

[wudang_clown]

Well yess, Atabeg is not a King, but its also a Rank, kind of Militant gouverneur ,
he also had a title of EMIR, but thats one is arabic, and Atabeg is Turkic ..

"Atabeg's Guard/Guards" or "Guard of Atabeg" in that case.

[Atabeg]

this map is not from true sourses of historians, it maded by modern Azerbaijan authorities ......... Derbend, !

So Derbent was not an Azeri city? And isn't? How come the area are populated by Azeris then?

Derbent (Russian: Дербе́нт; Lezgian: Кьвевар; Azeri: Dərbənd; Avar: Дербенд; Persian: دربند; Judæo-Tat: דארבּאנד / Дэрбэнд / Dərbənd[1]) is a city in the Republic of Dagestan, Russia, close to the Azerbaijani border. It is the southernmost city in Russia, and it is the second most important city of Dagestan. Population: 101,031 (2002 Census); 78,371 (1989 Census). The Azeris are the main ethnic group (80%), followed by Lezgins (15%) and Tabasarans (5%).

[Atabeg]

By the way, Atabegs should be definetly added...

[Atabeg]

"wudan_clown", what do you have to say?

[wudang_clown]

What I have to say? What is rather well known - Atabegs of Azerbaijan most likely will be in BC 3.0.

[Atabeg]

Woow, I got the answer I need.

Thank you. Do you have something in your mind? Just ask please...

I will soon post a map showing boundaries of Atabegs of Azerbaijan. Atabegs of Azerbaijan should not be confused with other Atabegs, because maps show all of Atabegs.

Abour rosters, I will try to find some but there are already Azeri units, and you can use Caucasian, Turkmen + North Iranian (Dylamian) units aswell.

[wudang_clown]

Sure, feel free to post anything which in your opinion would be helpful to design the faction.

The more information, the better.

[Atabeg]

The archer with earring are Turkmen while other 2 soldiers Azeri. I don't know how much it can help.

[wudang_clown]

These are military men from 15th century.

[Atabeg]

These are military men from 15th century.

Well, your right. I guess they can't be included.

I will try but like said, I think there are enough to create an Azerbaijani faction, there are already 3-4 units, and you can use from other nations. Also the cavalry unit Eisberg posted earlier.

[Atabeg]

How about these Shirvanshah ones?

Impossible?

[Eisberg]

How about these Shirvanshah ones?

Impossible?

this should be saved for Shirvan Shahdom !
where did you get those ?
they are not from Museum of National History of Azerbaijan,...

[Atabeg]

Are they thinking of adding it? It would be really cook. Both Atabegs and Shirvanshah. But like said, would they include it?

I got it from "milaz", its from the Istanbul history museum.

[Atabeg]

Wudang, do you need a map? I can make one if you want...

It basically would include North-Western Iran, modern day Armenia and Azerbaijan aswell parts of Georgia and Derbent area of Dagestan. Would it work or? Also could Shirvan also be included? They lasted untill 15th century. I don't really think it would be a difficult thing to do. What do you have to say about this.

[wudang_clown]

Why not, let's see what you've got.

But next time use "Edit" option to add content to your previous posts if they are last posts in the thread, please.

Regarding implementation of Shirvan Shahdom - the faction is still being discussed, so I can't promise anything in that matter. However Atabegs of Azerbaijan are sure thing, as I've said. Ultimately, we could show some features concerning Shirvan Shahdom in AA unit pool, or something. We will see.

[Atabeg]

Why not, let's see what you've got.

But next time use "Edit" option to add content to your previous posts if they are last posts in the thread, please.

Regarding implementation of Shirvan Shahdom - the faction is still being discussed, so I can't promise anything in that matter. However Atabegs of Azerbaijan are sure thing, as I've said. Ultimately, we could show some features concerning Shirvan Shahdom in AA unit pool, or something. We will see.

Ok, thanks for your advice.

I will post a map soon aswell a flag. I have a flag in my mind for Atabegs.

[Atabeg]

Well, about the map. I don't think there is any point in paint.

I think I can just mention the regions from the AOR map...Ardebil, Tebriz, Ganja, Shemakha, Baku and Derbent. I think that is fairly accurate since these are Azeri regions and also that these regions are rebel, there would be no problem to include...

Derbent is considered as Steppe but its wrong, it was always an Azeri area, still is, ethnically. A very importnant city of Azerbaijan's history and past. Aswell Ardebil wich is N.Iranian in BC 2.0. Ardebil was at times biggest city of historic Azerbaijan. And there is no doubt that it was and is ethnically, historically Azerbaijanian, just like Derbent. They should be definetly included. Or well, maybe I should say that boundaries of Atabegs included both Ardebil and Derbent.

Telavi and Qazvin can be discussed aswell.

What is your opinion? Ardebil, Tebriz, Ganja, Shemakha, Baku, Derbent.



This could be used as the flag.

[wudang_clown]

Baku and Shamakha (and maybe Derbent) seems to be good starting regions for Shirvanshahs. Giving more regions to them wouldn't be good in gameplay terms.

As for ethnicity, I'd say that it is anachronism to use this term with reference to medieval times. Ethnicity of a region is often an argument of legitimization of particular claims to land. In medieval times ethnicity wasn't that important. What was more important then was a ruling family's aims and goals. States were rather family businesses than ethnic entities.

Also, we can't use modern flag.

And I ask you one more time to use "Edit Post" button, intead of unnecessarily multiplying posts.

[Atabeg]

Your right, ethnicity part I mention are wrong, but these regions were all ruled by Atabegs. So what I say is historically accurate aswell.

Yes, Shirvanshahs only ruled Derbent, Baku and Shemakha, but Atabegs ruled Genja, Tebriz and Ardebil aswell. But are we talking about Atabegs or Shrivanshah or will you include both?

But do you have something in your mind that are formed about these things? Sorry I m a bit confused.

And here the leaders

This is pic of the founder of Atabegs, Eldegiz. So that it can give you an idea of how they actually looked like.

Eldegiz was an Kypchak.



* Atabek Shamsaddin Eldegiz (Ildegiz) (1140-1172)
* Atabek Mohammed Pekhlevan Jahan (1172-1186)
* Atabek Kyzyl Arslan (1186-1191)
* Atabek Aboubekr (1191-1210)
* Atabek Uzbek (1210-1225)