Page 205 of 205 FirstFirst ... 105 155 180 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205
Results 4,081 to 4,098 of 4098

Thread: The Elitist Chat Thread

  1. #4081
    Makrell's Avatar PM me about Christ
    Citizen Censor

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    10,142
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    The guys partipating in the curia (the curia) we are the role players.
    But who are the four guys?

  2. #4082
    mishkin's Avatar Magistrate
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6,768
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Makrell View Post
    But who are the four guys?
    Sorry, it was just a way of speaking. I meant that we (the guys more or less active at the curia) are few.

  3. #4083
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Citizen Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,158
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Who would had thought that abolishing the CdeC would have such an impact. However, 'others' have come out of the woodwork on different issues. A less concentrated group may be better?
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  4. #4084
    Doctor Shuu's Avatar HO! HO! HO! miss Hiyoko
    Citizen Censor

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Yesterday
    Posts
    9,134
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Makrell View Post
    i see, but who are the players? Am i a role player?
    Yes, you are the jarl of Fiskebyen
    Last edited by Doctor Shuu; March 03, 2015 at 07:34 AM.
    Under the patronage of Squid Girl. I am here, click me!


  5. #4085
    Char Aznable's Avatar I came to laugh at you
    Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    My flagship, the Litany of Truth, spreading DESPAIR across the galaxy
    Posts
    10,736
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Who would had thought that abolishing the CdeC would have such an impact. However, 'others' have come out of the woodwork on different issues. A less concentrated group may be better?
    ​I lost interest when both of my citizen game projects died.

    House of Caesars:
    Under the Patronage of Inkie Pie: Patron of Dante von Hespburg









    Duchara Total War

  6. #4086
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Citizen Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,158
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Char Aznable View Post
    ​I lost interest when both of my citizen game projects died.
    If you are referring to the House Games, I never understood he purpose of the proposal. It seems the best it could do would be to revitalize the House System. I am not sure that is worth wild goal. Houses are interesting, but a quaint off shoot or by product of patronization.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  7. #4087
    Genius of the Restoration's Avatar You beaut and magical
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5,210
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Others came out of the woodwork while CdeC existed too. I don't think the quality of the people that make up the Curia has improved at all. I certainly see less posts that I think are genuinely interesting and noteworthy. The disappearance of CdeC has seen less posts of the Aikanar's and Navajo Joe's of TWC, posts that were encouraged by an election debate system that promoted the effective communication of ideas about governance and priorities. I don't know much about many of the people who are active in the Curia at the moment. It used to be easy to tell who was worth listening to and who didn't have the capacity for rational and original thought and the system made that obvious. The looser equality of the Curia post-CdeC has levelled it all out and I can't be bothered figuring it out by myself after having an easy metric to look at for years.

    I'm not sure it's less concentrated. An effect of the behaviour during the removal of CdeC was that some found the whole place to be a bit jaded. There's also less interest because the removal of three quarters of the electable roles means there are less duties for people to be formally engaged in. I think the quality of debate has suffered because of this. The big question is, does this mean the Curia isn't working as well as before? Well, no. It seems to be working fine. It's just that I find it to be a less interesting place and consequently care less about what is happening than I used to.

  8. #4088
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Citizen Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,158
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    Others came out of the woodwork while CdeC existed too. I don't think the quality of the people that make up the Curia has improved at all. I certainly see less posts that I think are genuinely interesting and noteworthy. The disappearance of CdeC has seen less posts of the Aikanar's and Navajo Joe's of TWC, posts that were encouraged by an election debate system that promoted the effective communication of ideas about governance and priorities. I don't know much about many of the people who are active in the Curia at the moment. It used to be easy to tell who was worth listening to and who didn't have the capacity for rational and original thought and the system made that obvious. The looser equality of the Curia post-CdeC has levelled it all out and I can't be bothered figuring it out by myself after having an easy metric to look at for years.

    I'm not sure it's less concentrated. An effect of the behaviour during the removal of CdeC was that some found the whole place to be a bit jaded. There's also less interest because the removal of three quarters of the electable roles means there are less duties for people to be formally engaged in. I think the quality of debate has suffered because of this. The big question is, does this mean the Curia isn't working as well as before? Well, no. It seems to be working fine. It's just that I find it to be a less interesting place and consequently care less about what is happening than I used to.
    I would guess we both have to entirely different ideas of what activity means.
    Apart from citizenship application (which remains a constant) there has been more proposals and more nominations for large awards post CdeC.
    In this post, I demonstrated that. If you noticed for large awards and proposals it was three times greater. Even if you account for the "cosmetic" proposals it is still higher. In a much older post, I discovered that within one calendar year there was only about 25 new CdeC members with the average votes cast being roughly under 30 votes. The average votes are only slightly lower. If you account for about half dozen people who either left TWC or is now less active, this is not too surprising.

    Elections may allow for more activity, but I am not convince it is more interesting. I think the activity is an illusion of an active Curia.

    One thing I think we can both agree on is that awarding for contribution and punishing citizens for misdeed does not excite very many people. Many things have been proposed, but none have been successfully implemented.

    What role should the Curia play? I asked this question numerous times. One thing for certain, regardless how you define, the vast majority of citizens will not be involved. Most, if not all, were recognized for the contribution outside of the Curia. Unless the value the larger community it is unlikely they will see the Curia has a meaningful place to interact. Perhaps revitalizing the Curia is an attempt to fit the proverbial square peg in a round hole.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  9. #4089
    Genius of the Restoration's Avatar You beaut and magical
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5,210
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    I don't think we have different ideas of what 'activity' means. I just don't think that more proposals (the quantity of them) has made the Curia interesting (which I measure by the quality, or qualities, of posts found there).

  10. #4090
    Aikanár's Avatar The A-Team
    Artifex Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dante's pocket
    Posts
    10,583
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I would guess we both have to entirely different ideas of what activity means.
    Apart from citizenship application (which remains a constant) there has been more proposals and more nominations for large awards post CdeC.
    In this post, I demonstrated that. If you noticed for large awards and proposals it was three times greater. Even if you account for the "cosmetic" proposals it is still higher. In a much older post, I discovered that within one calendar year there was only about 25 new CdeC members with the average votes cast being roughly under 30 votes. The average votes are only slightly lower. If you account for about half dozen people who either left TWC or is now less active, this is not too surprising.
    To be fair, the data you've provided compares the 10 month before the abolishment with the 10 months after it. So basically you've comparing the worst case of decline with the phase until after a radical change was enacted. So while the raw figures are correct, I'd be very cautious to draw conclusions based upon those figures.

    We've seen way better days of curial participation in '11 and '12 with regards to pretty much all numbers, including freshman councilors, applicants per seat up for election and so on despite the fact that the curia had less fields of activity (no CAT/CCT, no Taggers group) than in 13/14.

    So while I agree with the figures you've presented, I think one needs to be careful what conclusions to draw from those numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Elections may allow for more activity, but I am not convince it is more interesting. I think the activity is an illusion of an active Curia.
    Well, elections are only as interesting as the partaking people on all ends make them to be.

    In general, I agree with GotR although I've enthusiastically voted in favor of abolishing the CdeC, but to be honest, I've become more and more disinterested with the goings on in the curia due to boredom - mind you, I'm German which means that I'm not bored easily


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks and Makrell, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  11. #4091
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Citizen Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,158
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    I don't think we have different ideas of what 'activity' means. I just don't think that more proposals (the quantity of them) has made the Curia interesting (which I measure by the quality, or qualities, of posts found there).
    I guess it is a matter of perception. I didn't find the proposals just prior to the abolishing of the CdeC to be very interesting at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    To be fair, the data you've provided compares the 10 month before the abolishment with the 10 months after it. So basically you've comparing the worst case of decline with the phase until after a radical change was enacted. So while the raw figures are correct, I'd be very cautious to draw conclusions based upon those figures.

    We've seen way better days of curial participation in '11 and '12 with regards to pretty much all numbers, including freshman councilors, applicants per seat up for election and so on despite the fact that the curia had less fields of activity (no CAT/CCT, no Taggers group) than in 13/14.

    So while I agree with the figures you've presented, I think one needs to be careful what conclusions to draw from those numbers.
    The argument is that things are less interesting after abolishing the CdeC than before. The data suggest otherwise. If I were to argue that things are better without the CdeC then I would need more time for a more conclusive finding. However, the data would suggest a positive trend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    Well, elections are only as interesting as the partaking people on all ends make them to be.
    In general, I agree with GotR although I've enthusiastically voted in favor of abolishing the CdeC, but to be honest, I've become more and more disinterested with the goings on in the curia due to boredom - mind you, I'm German which means that I'm not bored easily
    Personally, I do not find election debate threads to be all that interesting; there is only so many ways to skin a cat. However, if that is your cup of tea, then I can see why someone would find the Curia boring these days. IMO, if it takes elections to make a place interesting, then we are definitely doing something horribly wrong.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  12. #4092
    Aikanár's Avatar The A-Team
    Artifex Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dante's pocket
    Posts
    10,583
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I guess it is a matter of perception. I didn't find the proposals just prior to the abolishing of the CdeC to be very interesting at all.
    That's the one of the two crucial points I feel you've voiced here, interest. Interest is an incredible subjective thing and I'd say that interest is the crucial incentive that creates activity of a particular user in the curia. If I don't find the goings on in the curia interesting, I will not participate.

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The argument is that things are less interesting after abolishing the CdeC than before. The data suggest otherwise. If I were to argue that things are better without the CdeC then I would need more time for a more conclusive finding. However, the data would suggest a positive trend.
    I understand why you draw that conclusion. I think there's the second crucial point besides who's interested in the curia, why are they interested and what is their interest. Genius and me for example were more interested in the debates and discussions and other things, since those are not happening with topics that I find interesting or with positions being held that I find interesting, I simply only participate if I feel the need to, not because I'm particularly interested in this place or the topics anymore, but because of principles I'd like to see uphold.

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Personally, I do not find election debate threads to be all that interesting; there is only so many ways to skin a cat. However, if that is your cup of tea, then I can see why someone would find the Curia boring these days. IMO, if it takes elections to make a place interesting, then we are definitely doing something horribly wrong.
    True, however we had pretty interesting election debates, not all the time, not every time, heck not even half of the time, but they existed, nowadays... not so much. But of course I don't want to blame, it's simply my impression. Also debates in the curia don't start or end with election debates. There have been bills, proposals, discussions, applications and so on ... all of those exist, still, in principle, alas their quality is ... meh, if existent at all.

    Oh well, that's my impression and of course totally subjective and not necessarily true (if there is such a thing as truth).


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks and Makrell, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  13. #4093
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Citizen Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,158
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    That's the one of the two crucial points I feel you've voiced here, interest. Interest is an incredible subjective thing and I'd say that interest is the crucial incentive that creates activity of a particular user in the curia. If I don't find the goings on in the curia interesting, I will not participate.

    I understand why you draw that conclusion. I think there's the second crucial point besides who's interested in the curia, why are they interested and what is their interest. Genius and me for example were more interested in the debates and discussions and other things, since those are not happening with topics that I find interesting or with positions being held that I find interesting, I simply only participate if I feel the need to, not because I'm particularly interested in this place or the topics anymore, but because of principles I'd like to see uphold.

    True, however we had pretty interesting election debates, not all the time, not every time, heck not even half of the time, but they existed, nowadays... not so much. But of course I don't want to blame, it's simply my impression. Also debates in the curia don't start or end with election debates. There have been bills, proposals, discussions, applications and so on ... all of those exist, still, in principle, alas their quality is ... meh, if existent at all.

    Oh well, that's my impression and of course totally subjective and not necessarily true (if there is such a thing as truth).
    The bottom line is the Curia is only as interesting as it performs a certain need you desire. As I said before, how one defines the Curia would ultimately determine its usefulness to its members. Plus, is the Curia functional with only intermittent interest on the part of its members? Essentially if all it does is reward contribution, then that is probably the essence of what it will be. It does make proposals, but except for ideas like opening up user titles, most do not come out of the woodwork to voice their opinion. I suspect, though, that most are unaware of the going on in the Curia. I have receive rather direct responses about the lack of concern for the Curia. This was one of the factors why I have in the past suggested a more decentralized approach. Members have their ninche of interest; it is there were the energies of the site should focus.

    On a humorous note: I must generate some interest; it seems my ideas can get a rise out of the likes of you, Genius, Halie and others with no problem. admittedly, it is never my intention to do so.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  14. #4094
    Flinn's Avatar A Modern Man of Old
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    2,142
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Interesting discussion here. I've no experience at all about the CdeC (although I can guess what it was like, less or more); can anyone explain me (or link me where I can read about) why it was abolished? (Mostly, I'm interested about the feelings of people on it)

    Oh well, that's my impression and of course totally subjective and not necessarily true (if there is such a thing as truth).
    Indeed, my friend, it's all subjective Furthermore, as we age, we change our priorities and interests.
    One can also guess that some dudes, who were more interested in the elitist nature of the CdeC, after his abolishment have left or lost interest in the whole story (just wild guessing, less or more ), so that overall the appeal has reduced.

    TWC Member Awards 2014: Vote Threads are out now!
    Time to vote for your favorite members!

    Son of the magnificent Finlander, member of the glorious Imperial House of Hader




  15. #4095
    mishkin's Avatar Magistrate
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6,768
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    Interesting discussion here. I've no experience at all about the CdeC (although I can guess what it was like, less or more); can anyone explain me (or link me where I can read about) why it was abolished? (Mostly, I'm interested about the feelings of people on it).
    My feelings (expressed in the curia commentary thread) were... ELITISM!!! BOOOHHHH!!!!
    [Amendment] Abolish CdeC
    A Moment in Time: The Abolishment of the Consilium de Civitate

  16. #4096
    Aikanár's Avatar The A-Team
    Artifex Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dante's pocket
    Posts
    10,583
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The bottom line is the Curia is only as interesting as it performs a certain need you desire. As I said before, how one defines the Curia would ultimately determine its usefulness to its members. Plus, is the Curia functional with only intermittent interest on the part of its members? Essentially if all it does is reward contribution, then that is probably the essence of what it will be. It does make proposals, but except for ideas like opening up user titles, most do not come out of the woodwork to voice their opinion. I suspect, though, that most are unaware of the going on in the Curia. I have receive rather direct responses about the lack of concern for the Curia. This was one of the factors why I have in the past suggested a more decentralized approach. Members have their ninche of interest; it is there were the energies of the site should focus.

    On a humorous note: I must generate some interest; it seems my ideas can get a rise out of the likes of you, Genius, Halie and others with no problem. admittedly, it is never my intention to do so.
    Ah I can't resist a good chit chat, you know that

    As with regards to awareness, I'm not too sure about that. Admittedly I haven't done researching numbers here, so it's simply a subjective observation of maybe anecdotal character, but I've witnessed time and again that citizens who I never ever would have suspect to take an interest in what's happening in the Curia showing up to post their opinion on the unlikeliest of topics.

    What I do know is that when I shot every citizen a pm making them aware of a bill that would have requested that every citizen would be notified by pm about votes in the curia, that from then ~900 citizens, only 20 wrote back, 18 telling me that they are aware of what is going on but asking me refrain from notifying them about the curia because even though they would be aware of it, they couldn't care less for that RPG. and the voting participation did not rise significantly in that vote either..
    Last edited by Aikanár; Today at 07:22 AM.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks and Makrell, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  17. #4097
    Flinn's Avatar A Modern Man of Old
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    2,142
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    My feelings (expressed in the curia commentary thread) were... ELITISM!!! BOOOHHHH!!!!
    [Amendment] Abolish CdeC
    A Moment in Time: The Abolishment of the Consilium de Civitate
    gracias hombre, I will read more when I have time, but at a first glance it appears that the main reason was inhability to promote citizenship and activity in general in the Curia, therefore now I see the reason of the doubts expressed here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    What I do know is that when I shot every citizen a pm making them aware of a bill that would have requested that every citizen would be notified by pm about votes in the curia, that from then ~900 citizens, only 20 wrote back, 18 telling me that they are aware of what is going on but asking me refrain from notifying them about the curia because even though they would be aware of it, they couldn't care less for that RPG. and the voting participation did not rise significantly in that vote either..
    That's sad, but not to be so unexpected IMO. I guess most part of the people only looks (or looked at least) at citizenship as just a reward for their contributions to the site, which might be fine anyway; others could have very personal reasons to dislike participating in the Curia activity, although only few actually give up their citizenship rights.

    TWC Member Awards 2014: Vote Threads are out now!
    Time to vote for your favorite members!

    Son of the magnificent Finlander, member of the glorious Imperial House of Hader




  18. #4098
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Citizen Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,158
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    What I do know is that when I shot every citizen a pm making them aware of a bill that would have requested that every citizen would be notified by pm about votes in the curia, that from then ~900 citizens, only 20 wrote back, 18 telling me that they are aware of what is going on but asking me refrain from notifying them about the curia because even though they would be aware of it, they couldn't care less for that RPG. and the voting participation did not rise significantly in that vote either..
    This is the point I am trying to drive here. There is little point in trying to entice people to participate in something that didn't draw them to the this site in the first place. If the site wishes to increase activity its efforts would best focus on facilitating actiity in the areas peple are interested. After all, the front page is redesigned to get people to contribute in different areas, but also to direct people to the areas of interest.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •