Page 206 of 206 FirstFirst ... 106 156 181 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206
Results 4,101 to 4,118 of 4118

Thread: The Elitist Chat Thread

  1. #4101
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,646
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    What argument? You've got no "data" about my opinion. It's not really a subject for debate - I just don't find it as interesting as before.
    The use of the word is somewhat coincidental. I presented the date prior to expressing that sentiment. Aik cam in later and stated the data didn't support an argument I wasn't making. The reponse you quoted was me stating the data was only useful for the argument I actually made.


    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    And my two cents: don't believe everything you hear. It wasn't nearly the hive it's sometimes been made out to be. For example:

    There really wasn't much elitism. It's a criticism that's been thrown at CdeC as an institution regularly. The members who thought of CdeC and citizenship as being truly elite weren't there for the whole time I was involved. People had different opinions about what citizenship should be about, but that's still the case today; there just isn't a beacon for people to rage against it like CdeC. Just about every councillor I saw come through the Curia (and I saw a lot over the time I was a councillor, curator and assistant curator) wanted to do the best thing for the Curia and site. The end of CdeC, with people railing against it and it's elitism, was unnecessarily abrasive and dismissive of the work people had done and continued to do. Rather than address the problem as a question of usefulness and who is capable of judging citizen entry standards, some chose to just attack CdeC. Naturally, some sitting and past councillors took this as an attack upon them and in some cases it was. The way it transpired was a shame because it was a situation that largely demonised people who had volunteered their time. Regardless of what people might have thought about the process and values of the people involved, it didn't need to happen the way it did.
    I agree and I said as much that as time progresses, the CdeC's reputation would be remember worse than it actually was.

    At the time of the discussion of abolishing it, I suggested that 4 or 5 would preferred. There just isn't enough active member to support a 12 member council.
    To be fair, a great deal of the criticism stated the systemic problem and specific members were not mentioned. However, the nature of the criticism would make it difficult for anyone who was strong part of the CdeC not to take the discussion personal. Unfortunately, I do not think there was a more reasonable approach to the CdeC's removal. It is little consequence; we went from incessant monotonous elections to apparently incessant meaningless proposals.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  2. #4102
    Aikanár's Avatar The A-Team
    Artifex Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sanctuary
    Posts
    11,320
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    There really wasn't much elitism. It's a criticism that's been thrown at CdeC as an institution regularly. The members who thought of CdeC and citizenship as being truly elite weren't there for the whole time I was involved. People had different opinions about what citizenship should be about, but that's still the case today; there just isn't a beacon for people to rage against it like CdeC. Just about every councillor I saw come through the Curia (and I saw a lot over the time I was a councillor, curator and assistant curator) wanted to do the best thing for the Curia and site. The end of CdeC, with people railing against it and it's elitism, was unnecessarily abrasive and dismissive of the work people had done and continued to do. Rather than address the problem as a question of usefulness and who is capable of judging citizen entry standards, some chose to just attack CdeC. Naturally, some sitting and past councillors took this as an attack upon them and in some cases it was. The way it transpired was a shame because it was a situation that largely demonised people who had volunteered their time. Regardless of what people might have thought about the process and values of the people involved, it didn't need to happen the way it did.
    You know what I think about that topic. Every body who can elect somebody to do something for them will get exactly those individuals elected and re-elected they deserve - and that also goes out for how such a body is run or abolished.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal and Sheridan, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  3. #4103
    Flinn's Avatar In Dude We Trust
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    2,332

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    There really wasn't much elitism. It's a criticism that's been thrown at CdeC as an institution regularly. The members who thought of CdeC and citizenship as being truly elite weren't there for the whole time I was involved. People had different opinions about what citizenship should be about, but that's still the case today; there just isn't a beacon for people to rage against it like CdeC. Just about every councillor I saw come through the Curia (and I saw a lot over the time I was a councillor, curator and assistant curator) wanted to do the best thing for the Curia and site. The end of CdeC, with people railing against it and it's elitism, was unnecessarily abrasive and dismissive of the work people had done and continued to do. Rather than address the problem as a question of usefulness and who is capable of judging citizen entry standards, some chose to just attack CdeC. Naturally, some sitting and past councillors took this as an attack upon them and in some cases it was. The way it transpired was a shame because it was a situation that largely demonised people who had volunteered their time. Regardless of what people might have thought about the process and values of the people involved, it didn't need to happen the way it did.
    Indeed, I think I've been too light in my evaluations here. Definitely those who have gifted much of their time to TWC shouldn't be addressed that easily and really deserve much respect; not that saying that it was elitist is an accuse, but surely this is not kind. I guess it will be impossible to really understand what it represented without having experienced it myself.

    Thanks for the info sir
    Son of the magnificent Finlander, member of the glorious Imperial House of Hader


  4. #4104
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,646
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    You know what I think about that topic. Every body who can elect somebody to do something for them will get exactly those individuals elected and re-elected they deserve - and that also goes out for how such a body is run or abolished.
    I get that you reap what you sow, but there really wasn't a lot of alternatives to vote for....

    I wondered if it would had been better to have the CdeC be more of a headhunting group where the members went looking for potential citizens then present them to the group or act as their patron and present them like now to the whole Curia. I guess it is neither here or there, since we have an informal system like this in place.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  5. #4105
    Genius of the Restoration's Avatar You beaut and magical
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5,304

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I get that you reap what you sow, but there really wasn't a lot of alternatives to vote for....
    I think that's Aik's point. If people don't make the effort and volunteer their own time, they haven't got a leg to stand on when they criticise the people who have actually volunteered their time. A lack of alternatives speaks more about the people who didn't run but just complained than those who actually gave their time.

  6. #4106
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,646
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    I think that's Aik's point. If people don't make the effort and volunteer their own time, they haven't got a leg to stand on when they criticise the people who have actually volunteered their time. A lack of alternatives speaks more about the people who didn't run but just complained than those who actually gave their time.
    On second reading, I think I see that point.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  7. #4107
    Aikanár's Avatar The A-Team
    Artifex Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sanctuary
    Posts
    11,320
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    I think that's Aik's point. If people don't make the effort and volunteer their own time, they haven't got a leg to stand on when they criticise the people who have actually volunteered their time. A lack of alternatives speaks more about the people who didn't run but just complained than those who actually gave their time.
    We really have worked together for quite some time, didn't we?

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I get that you reap what you sow, but there really wasn't a lot of alternatives to vote for....

    I wondered if it would had been better to have the CdeC be more of a headhunting group where the members went looking for potential citizens then present them to the group or act as their patron and present them like now to the whole Curia. I guess it is neither here or there, since we have an informal system like this in place.

    Admittedly I phrased it in a provoking fashion to get somebody to bite But, Pike, Genius has put the finger on exactly what I meant. Of course there have been only so many alternatives, but then again, if your dissatisfied with their performance, do something about it. Nobody can get into a position if he's not voted in. If I don't like the work somebody does, I don't vote for him. If I don't have an alternative to vote for, I either run myself or not. If I don't run, for whatever reason, I find the it a bit, hm, hypocritical to bash away at the performance of those who, in contrary to me not running, volunteer their time and effort to do the job.

    I'm not saying, don't cirticise, but it's all too easy if people don't take an effort to actively improve the situation.

    So, yes, it goes both ways of course, but the responsibility for who is elected and re-elected is always on the entire electorate, not just those running.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal and Sheridan, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  8. #4108
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,646
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    I guess that could be a fair argument. However,....
    If you consider the 12 members, plus Curator, plus 2 magistrates, then that would be total of 15 elected people by the Curator.
    In order to have a good healthy choices, you would have to have 3/4 people running for each position. This is an active membership of 45- 60 members. Moreover, not everyone is the office holding type and would rather vote for someone else, so the viable number could even be higher. If the CdeC was created during its decision- making period, then the numbers may have been that high or higher. However, once it lost its powers, the CdeC should had been reduced to fit the current level of activeness. Of course, this is what was done.... eventually!
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  9. #4109
    Aikanár's Avatar The A-Team
    Artifex Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sanctuary
    Posts
    11,320
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I guess that could be a fair argument. However,....
    If you consider the 12 members, plus Curator, plus 2 magistrates, then that would be total of 15 elected people by the Curator.
    In order to have a good healthy choices, you would have to have 3/4 people running for each position. This is an active membership of 45- 60 members. Moreover, not everyone is the office holding type and would rather vote for someone else, so the viable number could even be higher. If the CdeC was created during its decision- making period, then the numbers may have been that high or higher. However, once it lost its powers, the CdeC should had been reduced to fit the current level of activeness. Of course, this is what was done.... eventually!
    What powers of the CdeC do you speak of? The CdeC never had any other function/power than those it had when it was abolished: disciplinary cases, citizenship applications and Divus proposals.

    There have not been any other functions/powers, so I'm a bit irritated to what you're referring to.

    Also, what decision making period are you referring to and what would the CdeC have to do with that? If you mean hight of curial legislative activity - especially before and after the imb take-over - then that wasn't a CdeC decision making period, but all about curial legislative activity.

    With regards to the numbers, we easily had that in '12 and early 13. I'm not sure why it changed during the course of the year 2013 since I was absent. However, I remember having evaluated the CdeC, Magistrate and Curator elections of '12 in a proposal about councilor term restrictions in July or August '12 (I would have to look that one up - or you can if you're interested in, it should be in the proth archive), because then the argument was made that only "old farts" would get relected - which I prooved wasn't true. In those days we had a lot of freshman councillors and we had a lot of applicants per election/seat and quite a reasonable voting participation too.

    All in all, I don't know what your point is and what you're referring to.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal and Sheridan, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  10. #4110
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
    Artifex

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    16,152
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    I think that's Aik's point. If people don't make the effort and volunteer their own time, they haven't got a leg to stand on when they criticise the people who have actually volunteered their time. A lack of alternatives speaks more about the people who didn't run but just complained than those who actually gave their time.
    While there were many who served honourably there were many who used and manipulated the CdeC. The blame for it's demise and demonization lies there, not with people who criticised it without serving.

    I never liked the CdeC and criticised it often. Just as I've never liked this thread and have never posted in it until today, it gives the wrong impression of the curia.

    Edit - Or maybe it doesn't..
    Last edited by Halie Satanus; March 16, 2015 at 12:01 PM.

  11. #4111
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,646
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    What powers of the CdeC do you speak of? The CdeC never had any other function/power than those it had when it was abolished: disciplinary cases, citizenship applications and Divus proposals.

    Also, what decision making period are you referring to and what would the CdeC have to do with that? If you mean hight of curial legislative activity - especially before and after the imb take-over - then that wasn't a CdeC decision making period, but all about curial legislative activity.
    I was referring to the Curia at the time of the CdeC was created. That is IF the Curia was more active (guessing when it had more decision making abilities) THEN it may have the requisite number of active participating citizens to warrant a 12 member board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    There have not been any other functions/powers, so I'm a bit irritated to what you're referring to.
    Sounds like someone needs to switch to decaf

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    With regards to the numbers, we easily had that in '12 and early 13. I'm not sure why it changed during the course of the year 2013 since I was absent. However, I remember having evaluated the CdeC, Magistrate and Curator elections of '12 in a proposal about councilor term restrictions in July or August '12 (I would have to look that one up - or you can if you're interested in, it should be in the proth archive),..../
    There was never a time since I have been a member where I noticed 60 or even 45 citizens participating in elections! In fact, it was one of the first things I noticed about the Curia

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    ..... Just as I've never liked this thread and have never posted in it until today, it gives the wrong impression of the curia.

    Edit - Or maybe it doesn't..
    I agree! It should/ought to be renamed Citizens Chat Thread.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  12. #4112
    Aikanár's Avatar The A-Team
    Artifex Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sanctuary
    Posts
    11,320
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I was referring to the Curia at the time of the CdeC was created. That is IF the Curia was more active (guessing when it had more decision making abilities) THEN it may have the requisite number of active participating citizens to warrant a 12 member board.
    Now I see what you're saying, but I disagree with the correlation you're drawing.

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    There was never a time since I have been a member where I noticed 60 or even 45 citizens participating in elections! In fact, it was one of the first things I noticed about the Curia
    A member of what, the Curia? That can be true. Of the site? Then your perception failed you, just a random sample from '12:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...on-V-2012-CdeC
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Major-Darling)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...mloze-robinzx)


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal and Sheridan, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  13. #4113
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,646
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    Now I see what you're saying, but I disagree with the correlation you're drawing.

    A member of what, the Curia? That can be true. Of the site? Then your perception failed you, just a random sample from '12:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...on-V-2012-CdeC
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Major-Darling)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...mloze-robinzx)
    the 45- 60 is the absolute minimal number of votes would take to support a 12 member group (more precisely 15 elected positions).
    I could show you the data I have from 2011, 2012 and 2013 if you like....
    There was a correlation between the number of votes and the number of candidates. The magic number for more than 6 candidates (for three positions) were the upper 50s. I only seen candidate number of 8 or more when the vote total were greater than 60.

    Before when I considered 45-60 as the minimal, I was thinking theoretically. It would take a very active Curia to make it work. In this type of forum above 60 would be best. If at the start the Curia had 60+ votes, then 12 would had been reasonably thought to be ok. I personally, would had voted against such a large number with that many votes. One factor is the number of elections that resulted with such a high number as well.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  14. #4114
    Aikanár's Avatar The A-Team
    Artifex Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sanctuary
    Posts
    11,320
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    the 45- 60 is the absolute minimal number of votes would take to support a 12 member group (more precisely 15 elected positions).
    I could show you the data I have from 2011, 2012 and 2013 if you like....
    There was a correlation between the number of votes and the number of candidates. The magic number for more than 6 candidates (for three positions) were the upper 50s. I only seen candidate number of 8 or more when the vote total were greater than 60.
    So? Is there anything you want to say with that other than shifting the goal posts from "There was never a time since I have been a member where I noticed 60 or even 45 citizens participating in elections!" to the above?

    I suggets to simply admit that your perception and statement were wrong and move on, instead of trying to weasel out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Before when I considered 45-60 as the minimal, I was thinking theoretically. It would take a very active Curia to make it work. In this type of forum above 60 would be best. If at the start the Curia had 60+ votes, then 12 would had been reasonably thought to be ok. I personally, would had voted against such a large number with that many votes. One factor is the number of elections that resulted with such a high number as well.
    Do you know the history of the institution called CdeC and how it arrived at 12 members?

    However, the point you seemingly are trying to make, that in order to support a certain number of offices an institution would need a certain number of participants is, of course, obvious. Other than that, did you have any other point?


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal and Sheridan, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  15. #4115
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,646
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    the 45- 60 is the absolute minimal number of votes would take to support a 12 member group (more precisely 15 elected positions).
    I could show you the data I have from 2011, 2012 and 2013 if you like....
    There was a correlation between the number of votes and the number of candidates. The magic number for more than 6 candidates (for three positions) were the upper 50s. I only seen candidate number of 8 or more when the vote total were greater than 60.

    Before when I considered 45-60 as the minimal, I was thinking theoretically. It would take a very active Curia to make it work. In this type of forum above 60 would be best. If at the start the Curia had 60+ votes, then 12 would had been reasonably thought to be ok. I personally, would had voted against such a large number with that many votes. One factor is the number of elections that resulted with such a high number as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    So? Is there anything you want to say with that other than shifting the goal posts from "There was never a time since I have been a member where I noticed 60 or even 45 citizens participating in elections!" to the above?
    I suggets to simply admit that your perception and statement were wrong and move on, instead of trying to weasel out of it.

    However, the point you seemingly are trying to make, that in order to support a certain number of offices an institution would need a certain number of participants is, of course, obvious. Other than that, did you have any other point?

    Why must you turn this into a nasty discussion?
    This was my original statement
    If you consider the 12 members, plus Curator, plus 2 magistrates, then that would be total of 15 elected people by the Curator.
    In order to have a good healthy choices, you would have to have 3/4 people running for each position. This is an active membership of 45- 60 members. Moreover, not everyone is the office holding type and would rather vote for someone else, so the viable number could even be higher.
    Later I wrote this
    There was never a time since I have been a member where I noticed 60 or even 45 citizens participating in elections! In fact, it was one of the first things I noticed about the Curia
    I did mispoke when I said 45. Since my original analysis was investigating the number of candidates the number of votes were from memory. Thayt being said, the average candidates were 6 in that time period; far below necessary for alternatives or choices. Anyway, thee is no goal post here. The hypothesis still fits the data I have collected; anything less than 60, and the Curia cannot support 15 elected positions.

    When I submitted the anlysis during the CdeC removal debate, I found within a calendar year there was only 25 different members. In many cases, even when there were 6 or more candidates, all of them were incumbent or former members of the CdeC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    Do you know the history of the institution called CdeC and how it arrived at 12 members?
    No. it is relevant. The knowledge would purely be academic.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  16. #4116
    Aikanár's Avatar The A-Team
    Artifex Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sanctuary
    Posts
    11,320
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Why must you turn this into a nasty discussion?

    This was my original statement


    Later I wrote this


    I did mispoke when I said 45. Since my original analysis was investigating the number of candidates the number of votes were from memory. Thayt being said, the average candidates were 6 in that time period; far below necessary for alternatives or choices. Anyway, thee is no goal post here. The hypothesis still fits the data I have collected; anything less than 60, and the Curia cannot support 15 elected positions.
    So I got you right and all you wanted to say was basically that:
    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    However, the point you seemingly are trying to make, that in order to support a certain number of offices an institution would need a certain number of participants is, of course, obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    When I submitted the anlysis during the CdeC removal debate, I found within a calendar year there was only 25 different members. In many cases, even when there were 6 or more candidates, all of them were incumbent or former members of the CdeC.
    Which was not the case during my active year in the CdeC just before the calendar year you used for your research I suppose. When I looked at the election data from August '11 to August '12 there were 17 freshman councillors alone and in the first half of '12 there were 23 different citizens serving as councillor (while the entire year before there were 43 different citizens as councillors in the CdeC). However, what are we actually arguing about? I sort of lost the idea why we're throwing those figures at each other to be honest.



    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    No. it is relevant. The knowledge would purely be academic.
    Come again please.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal and Sheridan, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  17. #4117
    PikeStance's Avatar Moderately Avant-Garde
    Vault Staff

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Changchun, China
    Posts
    4,646
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    So I got you right and all you wanted to say was basically that:

    Which was not the case during my active year in the CdeC just before the calendar year you used for your research I suppose. When I looked at the election data from August '11 to August '12 there were 17 freshman councillors alone and in the first half of '12 there were 23 different citizens serving as councillor (while the entire year before there were 43 different citizens as councillors in the CdeC). However, what are we actually arguing about? I sort of lost the idea why we're throwing those figures at each other to be honest.

    Come again please.
    I am not arguing about anything. I am just sharing what I have learned.
    I didn't choose the dates at random; the data used were one calendar year from the point of discussion. Unless, you want to bother to give a reason to include a longer time span. It still seems like a reasonable time period given the nature of the website. I did leave the discussion with an open question on what is the average life span for someone active in the Curia. I felt at the time and still felt the research would be exhaustive and not bear any real tangible evidence worth noting.
    SubMods | Activities | Projects | Modders Wanted

    *** HELP WANTED! ***
    Imperial Splendour
    is looking for a 2D artist/ texturer for temporary or as a permanent member of the development team.
    If interested or have questions, please contact PikeStance (Mod Manager) or wangrin (Mod Leader)
    WE HAVE OTHER NEEDS TOO: PLEASE SEE OUR AD HERE






  18. #4118
    Aikanár's Avatar The A-Team
    Artifex Vault Staff

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sanctuary
    Posts
    11,320
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The Elitist Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I am not arguing about anything. I am just sharing what I have learned.
    Then the mistake is all mine, since I thought you'd be arguing something. My apologies, Pike.

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I didn't choose the dates at random; the data used were one calendar year from the point of discussion. Unless, you want to bother to give a reason to include a longer time span. It still seems like a reasonable time period given the nature of the website. I did leave the discussion with an open question on what is the average life span for someone active in the Curia. I felt at the time and still felt the research would be exhaustive and not bear any real tangible evidence worth noting.
    I see. Yeah I used the very same method of how to collect the data in a discussion in August '12, probably for the same reasons as you did; it seems a fair amount of time to collect data from in order to use the data for interpreting reasons of recent circumstances - obvioulsy such figures are open to a variety of interpretations and hence any correlation one likes to establish needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but I guess that's understood.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal and Sheridan, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •