The merging of order factions and KOJ

[Osiiic]

So how about this: don't add any more faction. Either that or add a faction that is worthy of the faction slot. Not some insignificant country like georgia or some eastern european country.

Gorgia and eastern european kingdoms (Serbia, Bulgaria) were not, in fact, less significant than England or France and were more significant than Scotland, Ireland, Denmark, Teutonic knights or Norway.

[Schweizergarde]

I don't see a case for Templars taking up a faction slot aside from the Templar's popularity. They never existed as a political entity. In my opinion the Order of St John was more political (having governed Cyrus, Rhode, and Malta) and outlasted the Templars (not that I support making either order into a faction).

As to KoJ, I have an idea that might or might not be implementable. When the player as a Catholic faction captures any of the historical Kingdom of Jerusalem regions while on Crusade, offer the player a choice to establish KoJ, which will take control of the region. This can be done exactly the same way as Great Councils are--an event with yes/no choice and costing a large sum of gold.
The faction is then automatically allied with the player with military access granted.
Establishing KoJ boosts faction standing with all Catholic slightly, boosts faction standing with Papal States significantly, and boosts Templar/St John guild standing globally.
KoJ itself will have very good standing with all Catholic factions, and abysmal standing with all Islamic factions.
This offer, if turned down, will be granted again when the condition is met later (eg capturing another region while on crusade).
Regions controlled by KoJ will count towards win condition for the player.
This only applies to early era. Late era campaign is unchanged.

There's several reasons behind this:
a) Historical: KoJ was established by Crusaders.
b) Win Condition: Having to manage a territory in Judea while player is in Western Europe is unnecessarily painful and unavoidable. The distance from capital, along with religious heterogeneity and large population, makes a lot of these cities hard to maintain without extermination. Also any character that travels to Judea from, say, England, will waste 10+ turns by boat for homecoming.
c) Early Era Presence: this is basically emergence, but with more flavour.
d) Gameplay: it would be a choice event besides Great Councils; also the establishing the Kingdom would come with pros and cons:

Pros
Faction standing boosts, guild standing boosts
Allie in Palestine
Meeting winning conditions without controlling a region cut off from homeland

Cons
Large cost, maybe even in the form of a constant supply of tributes
Incentive to defend KoJ in a Fatimid dominated region due to winning condition


I do not know how to code these, but I think its possible. The choice event is already present in 6.0. The faction/guild standing change will require a new trigger based on the choice event (is this possible?). The tribute, alliance, and military access are diplomatic changes. I doubt the win condition trigger can be altered this way, though.

[Schweizergarde]

Ignore accidental doublepost

[whitewolfmxc]

Like the idea , but its very heavy backgrounds script LOL

[cherryfunk]

As to KoJ, I have an idea that might or might not be implementable. When the player as a Catholic faction captures any of the historical Kingdom of Jerusalem regions while on Crusade, offer the player a choice to establish KoJ, which will take control of the region. This can be done exactly the same way as Great Councils are--an event with yes/no choice and costing a large sum of gold.
The faction is then automatically allied with the player with military access granted.
Establishing KoJ boosts faction standing with all Catholic slightly, boosts faction standing with Papal States significantly, and boosts Templar/St John guild standing globally.
KoJ itself will have very good standing with all Catholic factions, and abysmal standing with all Islamic factions.
This offer, if turned down, will be granted again when the condition is met later (eg capturing another region while on crusade).

This is a fascinating idea, although it precludes a playable KOJ faction in the Early Campaign...

[MCDS2]

thats a good idea Schweizergarde, but instead of the player staying with their own kingdom the could be given the choice to switch over and control the kingdom of jerselum!

[gfortune]

Please check out my historical submod for the early campaign for the Koj and the late campaign. I a. biased historically for the knightly orders to emerge after the KoJ is established with a capital change to Jerusalem when taken by the KoJ faction. Anyone know how to write a change capital script?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...19#post2993019

[whitewolfmxc]

NICE JOB XD add rep XD

[Charging_Knight]

I would think a larger role for the Grand Masters could be incorporated by scripting the generation of a general in towns where Order chapter houses/HQs were situated. But the overall scheme falls under the KoJ or perhaps the Princ. of Antioch. This Templar faction making empires and such is a tad ridiculous. I would even venture to say, the Teutonic Order should have been part of the HRE with chapter houses for unit recruitment in the regions of the Teutonic Order's existance. Bottom line is Templars shouldnt exist as a strange little faction in an area of proper political entities.Views?

[2Shy]

Personaly I like more knight hospitallers that knight templars

[Forge13]

The Templars are the main reason KK created SS so I don't see him removing them any time soon.

KOJ and OKT always get obliterated early on in my games.... better to have them combined and more powerful than so weak they get overrun.

i'm very pleased to see the balancing of the factions, no one faction has a dominant battle set of units to draw from.

the ai does seem a little over able to produce multiple large stacks from apparently little to no resources...

[ShockBlast]

I would think a larger role for the Grand Masters could be incorporated by scripting the generation of a general in towns where Order chapter houses/HQs were situated. But the overall scheme falls under the KoJ or perhaps the Princ. of Antioch. This Templar faction making empires and such is a tad ridiculous. I would even venture to say, the Teutonic Order should have been part of the HRE with chapter houses for unit recruitment in the regions of the Teutonic Order's existance. Bottom line is Templars shouldnt exist as a strange little faction in an area of proper political entities.Views?

The Teutonic Order took alot of teritories for them and it took Poland + Lithuania to defeat them.They were a knight order when they arrived in Lithuania but they became something much more then that.I think the Templars don`t deserve to be a faction i`m for the merging.

[Waar]

My opinion about the original idea is that it's a good idea and i would like to give you props for it but i think it would throw off the balance; having soo many high level troops recruit able for KoJ at such an early age would be OP'ed. The idea of multiple generals would also make a poor addition as on of the real challenges of this game is not having enough family members at times, or having too many at times; generals are a great addition but it would have to be a slooooooooooowwwwwwwwww unit refresh rate. I'm pretty sure no templar or hospitaler leaders were ever given control of any settlements aside from Malta and Rhodes. These men were a form of fighting monk; they had to give up all material possessions just to be allowed to join the order. Don't misunderstand me, I love the knightly orders; I love having a premiere high level s/s unit early but I think it's a bit unrealistic what you're proposing; the templar and KoJ factions are supposed to have a hard time getting started; sometimes they need support from other Christian nations just to survive; whether that be through crusades or monetary donations. I like your ideas I just don't believe any of them are very realistic on a game play level.