Favorite factions, interesting starts...

[Aliksander]

OK this thread is dedicated to playing your favorite faction but in a different way than you're used to. Example below.

A few days ago I got back into ATW and started a Dal Riada Game. Usually its a constant uphill battle as I take the poor northern lands and constantly fight with the Pictish hordes and my ally Alcyud floundering under several boots, so I decided to try something new. I got a modest army together, put them on my small fleet and circumvented my ally Alcyud (sp?) and hit Ynis Manaw's lands. I took their western Mainland holding first, then took their island capital after a small but significant battle. Meanwhile I began converting my homelands to Celtic Christianity but did little else besides economic improvements.

The result? My lands are almost totally converted, Ynis Manaw is about to lose it's last province to me, and I have probably the strongest economy in the land because of my new ports. My ally has also been able to stick it to the Picts with a vengeance (probably because Manaw is no longer harassing them in the south). Go ahead people, try something new, it may just work out.

[MKeogh]

With my current Stainless Steel 6.0 campaign on indefinite hiatus due to a repeatable "Unspecified Error" CTD, I decided to try out this mod to fulfill my TW fix.

After a pain-in-the-neck installation (why no self-installer?), I started a Powys campaign on H/VH. Having no clue how to proceed, I found myself within a very short time 28K in debt and overwhelmed by Gwent. My kingdom was reduced to one town and one village with an army consisting of two generals. It's as bad as I have ever been beaten in a TW campaign (in fact, except for geishas killing my daimyo and heir in a modded version of STW I don't think I've ever really lost a TW campaign). Needless to say, I was HOOKED!

I installed the music pack, which is great with the exception of the German guy babbling during the campaign map, and restarted as Powys on H/VH. Again I found myself badly in debt- this time to the tune of 19K. (The army upkeep costs are unreal). However, I quickly gathered my units together under my best general and proceeded to eviscerate Gwent.

I destroyed their field army, captured one of their major towns, and was about to besiege their capital when Rheged, attempting to take advantage of my virtually undefended towns, attacked from the north. I now faced war on two fronts. I had bought some breathing space with Gwent, but it still pained me to have to march north to confront Rheged armies when I knew Gwent was just a few turns away from being practically finished. Further, I did not want to leave an enemy, no matter how battered, in my rear. Luckily, I was saved by a poorly implemented game feature- Gwent demanded I become a protectorate.

In exchange for 5000 gold to help ease my massive deficit, I eagerly assented to become a protectorate. As a result, Gwent became my ally and I was free to deal with Rheged. (The protectorate feature is just poor game design- its benefits towards the "protector" are so minimal that I felt bad hijacking Gwent for that 5k and the negatives for becoming a protectorate are almost undetectable. If one is looking for a quick peace AND a way to make some money then there is no reason NOT to become a protectorate other than avoiding taking unfair advantage of the AI. Why the AI is programmed to accept money in exchange for a protectorate is beyond me, but on this occasion I took advantage of this ridiculous feature.)

I swiftly crushed the invading Rheged armies and marched on one of their towns which resulted in their accepting peace. A few turns later, they agreed to become an ally which secured my northern borders enabling me to be free to finish off my "protector", Gwent. (Another poor game design- one can violate treaties without any real consequences.) That's where my campaign currently stands: my army now besieges the Gwent capital and it appears to be just a matter of time before Gwent is finished.

Overall, I have had a blast with this campaign. Since I have a huge deficit and am still bleeding money, I have not been able to recruit a soldier or build a building since turn 1. As a result, my army has shrunk especially my infantry units- the Gwent and Rheged campwyrau took their toll. I have been keeping my sole campwyrau unit in reserve in case of emergency and only have had to engage them once so far- against a Gwent campwyrau unit that had flanked my battle line. And that is why I am having fun- every soldier is valuable especially my elite soldiers. That's what a campaign game SHOULD be about- fighting battles but also thinking about the consequences and so far this campaign has delivered. Granted losing money EVERY turn can be frustrating and it's going to take me years to get my treasury back in the black so I do have some issue with the unit upkeep costs, but it is more fun than simply being able to refill queus every turn and having several full stacks of doom wandering about the map stomping out pathetic AI armies without thought of casualties.

So far I have not had any tech issues, but reading the bugs thread has me a little worried about possible repeatable CTDs. It would be a shame to lose such an exciting campaign to a bug.

[Aliksander]

The key to getting in the green with money is to use your troops, killing off upkeep while taking towns

[MKeogh]

Well, I didn't want to kill off my troops with Rheged and Gwent on my borders. If one big enemy stack had appeared then I would have been in BIG trouble since I had a field army of around a 1,000 men (playing on "huge" unit size) and garrisons consisting of one understrength unit each. Eventually, I was forced to adopt generals, which I usually never do because I like to keep my royal family "pure," in order to supplement my meagre army.

However, slowly but surely I did work myself back into the black. Gwent was able to hold on longer than I had hoped due to Dyfneint declaring war on me. As a result, Rheged broke its alliance with me because it was an ally of Dyfneint and then joined the war against me. Dyfneint's war effort was thankfully pathetic. Its sole aggressive act towards me was to send a small army to besiege one of my towns and spark the war which I quickly chased off. Also, luckily Rheged never combined its forces, but instead would attempt to besiege my three northern cities simultaneously with small armies. I was therefore able to chase off or annihilate each one of these armies with minimal loss.

Due to the rather lucklustre efforts of Dyfneint and Rheged, I was able to eliminate Gwent. I captured three of its major towns which enabled to me to profit around 3-4k per turn eliminating my debt in a very short time. However, in the last major battle between Powys and Gwent I lost my king and only good general when he and his bodyguard tangled with the king of Gwent. I still won the battle and Gwentish king fled, but it was a blow. The next season I cornered the Gwentish king in a forest and killed him which left Gwent without an heir and its last town turned rebel.

I then moved north and invaded Rheged. I took their southern most town, Caer Legion. Finally, I saw a large Rheged army moving to recapture Caer Legion. However, by then thanks to the captured Gwent cities and the sack of Caer Legion, I was in the black and able to retrain, recruit, and build. No battle occured because Dyfneint demanded I become a protectorate which I accepted to end the two front war (a ceasefire occuring immediately between Rheged and Powys) and consolidate my gains.

Overall, this is a fantastic mod! I have thoroughly enjoyed myself.

[Aliksander]

Yes it is, one of the best around. And thanks about the heads up for the music patch. I never really tried it but I installed it thanks to you and I have to admit, I don't know how I put up with the original music. Some of those songs are going on my ipod :p

Oh and that's not German it's Latin, he's doing a prayer of some sort (the 'Amen' at the end gives it away)

[Dansk viking]

The Latin speaker in the music pack is a mistake.

[Antagonist]

About the music: Hross could be certain, but I'm pretty sure that in addition to regular music there is a special campmap track for each faction group, which is a mixture of light music, ambient sounds and background reading (mostly prayers) The latter is in (Old or Middle) English for the Germanic factions, Latin for the Romano-Brits and Irish for the Gaels and Picts.

Antagonist

[Nicodemus]

@MKeogh...

Repeated CTDs: These should be fixed. There was one about St Conn ( or something ) which was a fix to the historical events. If it does occur there is no way around it apart from re-starting.
The other was a scripting issue which is also fixed. Cynric's army was just one unit too big : as if he needed it

They are both in the bugs thread..


This is truly one of ( if not the ) best mod for RTW, and I'm glad I put my efforts into playing, enjoying and ( on one small occassion ) fixing it.

I would love to do more ( especially seeing the Beowulf sub-mod ) but time & intentions are not always compatible.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, is never more true than with hwanting to mod RTW ...

Enjoy Powys, its hard. I love playing Dal Riada & Alcluyd, but try the Picts for something different !

[MKeogh]

Nicodemus:

Thanks for your reply. Have the fixes mentioned in the bugs thread, including your Cynric's army fix, already been incorporated into the Raven Feeders .7? Because other than the base ATW .6 and Raven Feeders .7, I have not added anything else to my ATW folder. Do I need to incorporate those fixes from the bugs thread myself?

Yes, Powys is hard. It is now the year 500, and I have found myself in a three front war. I had been fighting Ebrauc for several years when Rheged, which has about finished off Gwynedd, joined in and then was followed by opportunistic Dyfneint. It's been tough because if I advance to take out one then the other two move into my rear. Of course, TW diplomacy has been no help whatsover.

I have money, but the populations in my towns are small so I have been recruiting mercenaries. I now realize why the designers recommend huge unit sizes for this mod- it makes recruiting troops an issue. The population levels for almost all towns start out low so you have to make the decision as to whether deplete your towns dwindling populations by recruiting troops or let them grow to access higher building levels and more advanced units. It adds quite a bit to the strategy. I have adopted the later strategy for my capital- trying to get it up to 6,000 level to build the third tier advances and have avoided recruiting or retraining units there for several years now.

As I have proved to be an irresistable target to my fellow Britons, I wonder whether they will ever be any relief from the Germanic factions- the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes have been confined to southeastern England the entire game and appear to have difficulties with Ebrauc and Dyfneint. Are the Germans going to be eventually rescued by the script and become the powers that they were?

I have really enjoyed this mod, but have noticed a few minor issues: some mercenary units use vanilla "peasant" unit cards and the captain flags on the battle screen show the vanilla BI faction flags- Dyfneint is the West Roman Empire, Rheged is the Slavs ect.

Unfortunately, no mod designers have been able to fully overcome RTW/BI's weak AI, and ATW is no exception On the campaign map, I have not run into a formidable AI army since Gwent's initial armies at game start whose make-up was created by the scenario designers not the AI. Most AI armies that I now encounter either are half stacks filled with weak missile units (Ardu, Saethwyr) or consist of 2-3 units. As a result, the battles have been cakewalks due to the significant advantage my armies always have in both quantity and quality which isn't helped by the terrible battlefield AI. Thus, it gets tedious having to chase down and eliminate several tiny little stacks of units EVERY SINGLE TURN which is the RTW/MTW2's engine biggest failing. I do play by a houserule- fight only those battle in which my king or heir are present in order to cut down the number of battles, but still there are way too many battles.

[Jingles]

I'm playing a saxon campaign and the upkeep costs are proving real killers. I have one 3/4 stack army composed mostly of the elite units you get at the start, which has put me now in -45k debt. BUT, and its a big but, as a result of keeping this army, I was able to beat Arthur and his army in a truly epic battle near modern day portsmouth (I think ). Arthur escaped, but with his army defeated I cut a swathe through all his territories until I reached his capital which I burnt to the ground >_<. Arthur himself fell to my two handed swordsmen with gold chevrons in the city square, and as a result I now have no enemies in my immediate vicinity, so I can disband and work on getting a good economy up an running.

[swabian]

Yes, this kind of ruthless expansion is intended regarding most of the factions. It is quite difficult to balance things without scripting, if the army movement on the map is as fast, as it is in ATW. Disbanding units at the start is usually a bad i dea, so fast expansuion at the start is necessary. You can think of it as representing the players faction as a special one, which is the case in any mod, but its usually not as conspicious as it is in our mod.

[Venta Icenor Um]

Recently re-discovered this awesome mod, Just been playing as Gwent, yelling at my computer screen in an extremely dodgy Welsh accent. From the word go, i made short work of Powys, eliminating them pretty early on, whice was nice because i could get out of dept and concentrate on expanding my economy, spent a while building farms, mines and sewage works (So i can raise taxes) until i got invaded by Deifneint and their allies, the Dyfed, war on both fronts! i first went into dumnonia, taking caer baddon and then going back for the Dyfed. Now i have utterly destroyed them and all of South Wales is under my belt. Gwynedd are my allies, i don't know why, i want their land! will there be many negative repurcusions if i were to betray them?

andway, Deifneint has only two settlements left, Caer Uisc and Durocbrivae, both of which are nowhere near each other and their garrisons aren't very big. All in all, they are utterly beaten, not off the campaign map, but i don't have to wory about them invading anytime soon. Instead i have to worry about Rheged who have just invaded, beaten them back but they appear to have a whole full stack guarding their nearest settlement, no matter, i have just raised an equally overwhelming force to match their garrison and my forces stand poised for an epic battle, the loser of which will surely barely have an army left, so it's all or nothing.

How difficult exactly are the Germanic factions? the Anlges and Saxons really appeal to me but i expect it'll be a case of starting again a few times before i actually get the campaign underway. Anyone got any good Saxon/Angle tips?...

[Aliksander]

I don't know about saxons or angles, but I have played the Jutes and I would say to swallow up the angle lands to the north of you asap to get your economy going, then turn west to the saxons/dyfeint. Keep constructing/taking ports to build up your economy and rely heavily on the scripted reinforcements to give you military early on for attacking.

[Billious]

Recently started a campaign as Clyuid, or the Kingdom of Strathclyde, as it was also know, on H/H. The reason for choosing this faction was that a) it started with its finances in the black, and b) that with two-handed swordsmen it was not totally reliant upon spearmen and archers for infantry.
So far everything has gone well, though with a few difficult moments. I started by attacking the Picts, taking their capital and the settlement next to it. At this point the Gododding attacked, forcing me onto the defensive. Thankfully in Cunuit and his son Dumnagall the faction has two good starting leaders. The high numbers in their bodyguards was crucial in winning some of the early battles. Defeating the Gododdin was not too tricky, but when they were down to their last settlement each of my erstwhile allies, Dalriada, Rheged, and Ynys Manaw, attacked me in quick succession.
At this point, at war with FIVE(!) factions it seemed as if my days were numbered. However, most of the armies i have come across have been high numbers and low quality. Destruction of Gododdin was followed by taking the two mainland provinces of Ynys Manaw.
The year is currently 491, Cluyd has 13 provinces and is the largest faction on the map. The picts seem to have large though weak armies, and their schiltron spears are actually quite tough to break. Taking their towns is difficult because of the religion factor. Rheged seem to produce quite advanced armies.
Excellent mod, with few complaints. No CTDs. Diplomacy on H strategy is pointless, no chance of getting an ally, which is a shame. The game will be over within 50 years, either i will have won or the faction wll be history.

[Dionisy]

Hi mates, can anybody consult me - what the best fraction for begin in the Arturian? I like the saxons, but in description mentioned that it will be hard play with them. Now i look to picts (just finish my Cesar campain in TFT).

[Gaius Baltar]

Dynfeint is my favorite. I tried a Rheged as well. Both factions are in good positions to survive the early economic stress of the game. Of course, Arthur himself is the Dynfeint Chief.!!!

Hi mates, can anybody consult me - what the best fraction for begin in the Arturian? I like the saxons, but in description mentioned that it will be hard play with them. Now i look to picts (just finish my Cesar campain in TFT).

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

i have usually played as Rheged, partly for their starting position as someone said, and i think partly for their Faction Colour, Red. (a throw back to my Roman Campaigning) theres just something about those red banners and campaign map descriptions being in red.

i must admit that i sometimes get impatient and "add_money" but i really enjoy the struggle to build an infrastructure that works.

and playing as the Germanic factions is great but dont expect to make any money for a long time, as all the reinforcements that keep turning up cost a lot to keep, so the best stategy is to attack settlements and destroy everything .

[Feste]

I wanted a challenge so I joined the Seaxna. I'm a few years into the game and it's the best total war experience that I've had. I think it's because of the challenge. It’s never been this difficult in any other total was game I have played so I’m engrossed. I will post details of the opening of Aelles campaigning shortly.

All the best,

Feste

[Feste]

Seaxna Campaign

I wanted a challenge so I put everything on very difficult and threw in my lot with Aelle and his Seaxna.



Aelles strategy at the beginning was to take nearby British (rebel) strongholds and maintain his alliance with the Iotsc and Aenglisc in the hope of building a powerful kingdom strong enough to take on or defend against any of the regional powers surrounding him.

481

Aelles first objective of 481 was to take Noviomagnus directly to the east in the hope of winning plunder and new territory. With little gold in the kingdom’s treasury his primary goal was to pay for a worryingly large Seaxna army. Aelle’s army headed straight for the city and laid siege. At the same time scouts gave reports of other British (rebel) strongholds being laid siege to in the North, Caer Cadwell besieged by the Aenglisce and Caer Lundien besieged by the Iotsc.

The battle of Noviomagnus

At the end of the year the Britons of Noviomagnus sallied from their stronghold to break the Seaxna siege. Cynfg their leader sent out most of his 1,354 warriors in a surprise attack from the front gate against Aelles army of 1,413. Taken a little off guard and with most of the Britons amassing in front of him, Aelle was frantically arranging his battle order. A continuous hail of missiles began to be unleashed by both sides while the Britons probed the Seaxna with light infantry manoeuvres. In the confusion Aelle was shocked to see Cynfig at the head of a band of horsemen thundering around his right flank. Cynfig had waited for most of his warriors to mass in front of the Seaxna while making his own approach from a gateway to the rear thus covering his flanking movement to the Seaxna right. Aelle pulled back his missile throwers who were about to be ploughed in half and halted the charge with a band of spearman. Cynfg’s gamble had almost paid off but ultimately proved disastrous. With many of Cynfgs horsemen impaled on the Seaxna shield wall and Cynfg himself fighting for his life on all sides, Aelle sensed the moment and threw the rest of his infantry forward against the mass of Britons in front, within seconds the Britons on the Seaxna right saw their leader felled in a frenzy of spear thrusts from all sides. The Britons on that side of the line began to falter before panic spread throughout their line and their entire force fled towards the walls. The Seaxna followed them cutting them down mercilessly wherever they could find them. Later, with the dirty work completed, Aelle sold many of the remaining Britons into slavery but sparing those whose wealth and expertise could be of benefit to this newest addition to the Kingdom of the South Seaxna.

482

Betrayal! After their own success against Caer Lundein the Iotsc seeing the Seaxna back turned break their treaty obligations and send their arms against west against Andred and Creagsford. Aelle immediately put affairs in order at Noviomagnum and brought a smaller army back westwards to break the siege at Andred. Aelle quickly mastered the Iotsc forces but a third of them managed to flee back to their country. Aelle turned and headed North to beat off the second siege. By the time he arrived the Iotsc had already dispersed but news soon reached him that they had amassed another force to the South and once more besieged Andred. Aelle headed back and immediately lifted the siege driving the retreating Iotsc onto the South coast. With nowhere left to go they were confronted and cut down by the shore, their leader Athelheard being slain.

483

Aelle by now was gaining a reputation as a talented military leader. When news arrived that the Iotsc had once again laid siege to Creaganford he took delight in the opportunity to give them another beating. The betrayal had left a bitter taste with everyone in the Seaxna kingdom and Aelle was relishing the moment when he could set foot on Iotsc soil and repay their treachery with fire and spear.

Aelle dispatched with the besieging Iotsc at Craeganford and finally got the chance to put the Iotsc on the defensive. Feeling ever more confident, Aelle took 703 veteran warriors and headed across the border into Kent and straight for Hrofaescaestre, hoping to take the town within two seasons if necessary. The Iotsc were quick to levy reinforcements and not before long the Seaxna found themselves in the middle of a hornets’ nest.

The battle of Hrofaescaestre

Aelle stumbled into Hengest the famed Iotsc warlord who had with him 1508 men plus an even greater reputation in battle. Aelle was outnumbered by 2 to 1 but felt these drawbacks could be overcome for two reasons, both of which would influence his strategy for the coming battle.

Firstly he was in possession of a greater number of quality troops. A good number (400) of Hengist’s troops were Geburas, “peasant soldiers” Aelle called them. The second factor was the battlefield which was a wide steady climbing hill close to Hrofaescaesctre where Aelle organised his line at the top waiting for Hengest to trudge uphill and force the issue.

Aelle was confident that Hengests superiority in numbers would compel him to assault him head on as soon as he was close enough. Aelle would take a defensive stance using the ground to his advantage. His line was still painfully short compared to the long line that Hengist had assembled so there was nothing for it but to use the missile throwers and archers to extend his line to the right. These would face Hengest’s weakest assault troops, the Geburas. Aelle only kept his royal body guard in the rear of the line hoping to pounce on a weakness either in his own line or the enemies. His plan was to simply hold his line believing at some point his superior veteran troops would cause one of Hengest units to rout. This would be the critical moment, with a hole thus punched in the Iotsc line the Seaxna unit in that position would have to restrain themselves from hounding down the fleeing Iotsc and to momentarily push forward and then turn to attack the Iotish anywhere in the rear in turn causing another Iotsc unit to rout and so on.

As expected the Iotsc advanced straight up the hill, it appeared that Hengest was intending to simply steamroll the Seaxna line with brute force of numbers. Due to the incline Aelle’s archers were able to inflict many casualties form a fair distance, as the Iotsc host drew closer several of Aelle’s units let out a terrible war cry. The Seaxna missile throwers unleashed a hail of javelins felling many Iotsc who then, incensed, gave their own cry and charged. The Iotsc line slammed against the Seaxna with exception to Hengest’s far right where many of his own missile throwers had stood back hoping to drain the power of Aelle’s left side. The fighting was ferocious and on Aelle’s right his archers had fallen back from the Geburas charge leaving a unit of missile throwers to take the brunt. They were quickly overwhelmed fighting to the last 10 men within seconds, Aelle was alarmed but knew he could not let his line break, this would be a simple stabbing match until one side or another would break. He had to hold the line and so his own unit that had been held in reserve for a moment like this charged at the Geburas. As Aelle engaged them his archers who had fallen back finished their last volleys and reinforced the Seaxna right with their own charge into the Iotisc Geburas. The battle was fierce and the frenzy continued until the great Iotsc leader, Hengest in the heart of the battle was felled by a Seaxna spear thrust. The Geburas engaged with Aelle were the first to flee, Aelle seized the moment, pushing forward and attacking the Iotsc on his left in the rear, another and then another Iotsc unit routed. The signal was given and the Seaxna rushed down the slope cutting down many of their enemy. Hengest was dead, 1468 Iotsc were cut down, Seaxna casualties numbered 216.

The euphoria of a great victory did not last long before a second Iotsc war band fell upon the celebrating Seaxna. Aelle would have to fight a second battle, literally one after the other. He had 487 fighting men left. Scouts gave reports of 635 Iotsc warriors led by a minor chief. They had arrived too late to reinforce their great leader. Most were Geburas and missile throwers. Aelle pounced on them driving many back into the woods from which they came. This was an easy conclusion to a long day, the Seaxna had exacted revenge for the betrayal and would get more as they approached Hrofaescaestre. The inhabitants were cruelly put to the sword, none spared, Aelle’s veterans took control of the remnants of the town and settled down for garrison duty and the coming winter.

----------------------------

Wow, that was much longer than I intended. I still think I have a fair many turns left in the game. Not sure I have the time to indulge my imagination further with more scribblings about my in-game adventures. Anyway you asked for interesting starts and that was mine. Exceptional mod.

All the best,

Feste

[Antiochos VII Sidetes]

Angles, definitely. Under fire from my Germanic kin and Ebrauc's accursed spearmen, my army suffers immensely. But those reinforcements are great...and I scrimped and saved and bought one of those axe-toting war gods (start with an s) and proceeded to kill an army of 600 with just them and some levies...

And as of now, I'm probing Arthur's lines and launching invasions of Frankia.

Great campaign.