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Thread: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

  1. #1
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    Default Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    About the Mod

    Q: What is EB?
    A: Europa Barbarorum was started to more accurately represent the barbarian factions in Rome - Total War as more than unwashed hordes but quickly expanded into accurate representations of all of the factions. Over the X years that EB has existed, EB has completely remade the Rome - Total War game with the goal of historical accuracy and fair representations of all factions. With the completion of Europa Barbarorum Version 1.1, the team has moved on to the M2TW engine to recreate the Roman Era with the new features available therein.

    Q: Is EB2 going to be for the Kingdoms expansion?
    A: Yes, EB2 will be designed for Kingdoms and will only work with the Kingdoms expansion, patched to 1.05.

    Q: Why not use the engines of TW Empires or Shogun 2 ?
    A: Because MTW2 is the only reasonably moddable engine after RTW.

    Q: What is the start date / end date?
    A: 272BC - AD14

    Q: Is this a Roman-centric mod?
    Q: Is this a barbarian-centric mod?

    A: EB attempts to give all included factions an equal share and portray them as they historically were, without favouring one faction or culture.

    Q: Are you affiliated with Europa Barbarorum for Rome : Total War?
    A: The EB2 team started from the EB1 team, but now very few remain. Although never in great numbers, the team has managed to recruit enough modders to keep working, even if at a slow pace.

    Q: When will EB2 be released?
    A: Although research and concepting from Europa Barbarorum can be used for Europa Barbarorum II, all unit have to be remade. This will take a large amount of time and an accurate estimate of a release date cannot yet be ascertained. If you can model/skin units in M2TW and want to help us finish EB2 quicker, visit the Recruitment Thread and tell us what you can do.

    Q: Will it be released completely in one big-bang event?
    A: No. Due to the huge scope and lack of manpower, we have decided to release it partially. The 1st release will have most of the mechanics, traits, scripts, battlemap settlements and a large number of units. Subsequent releases will allow to improve those aspects considering the players' feedback and will also include more units.

    Q: What previews have there been?
    A: All previews are linked in this thread:
    All the Previews In One Thread...


    About the Factions

    Q: What are the new factions that will be in EB2?
    A: The list of factions is not closed yet, but EB2 will have the following factions in the 1st release:
    (from EB1)
    - Rome
    - Carthage
    - Makedonia
    - Epeiros
    - Koinon Hellenon
    - Seleukid Empire
    - Ptolemaioi
    - Baktria
    - Hayasdan
    - Pontos
    - Parthia
    - Aedui
    - Arverni
    - Pritanoi (replaces the Casse)
    - Lusotannan
    - Sweboz
    - Getai
    - Saba
    - Saka Rauka
    - Sauromatae
    (new in EB2)
    - Numidia
    - Pergamon
    - Taksashila
    - Lugia
    - Bosporan Kingdom
    - Arevaci
    - Boii
    - Nabatean Empire

    Q: Will the Koinon Hellenon be devided into a Spartan, Athenian, and Rhodian Faction?
    A: The Koinon Hellenon will remain as a faction and will not be divided up. Individually, each city-state was not strong enough or expansionistic enough to warrant the usage of a faction slot during this time period. Based on the EB system of deciding factions, if the Koinon were divided, it would be best represented by strong rebels. Therefore, the Koinon Hellenon will remain as a united league.

    Q: Will there be factions available to play later in the campaign, like the Cimbri or Yuezhi?
    A: No, the EB team have stated numerous times that we want all our factions to be playable from 272 BC.


    About the Units

    Q: How many units there will be?
    A: The 1st release will have around 200 units.

    Q: Units will have different faces?
    A: Units will not only have different faces but also different individual features (armor, shields, weapons, etc). Armies in this period rarely were uniformly dressed and equipped.

    Q: Will there be Lorica Segmentata in EB2?
    A: Lorica Segmentata was not widely used within the games time frame. Even though it could be argued that it was used to a minimal extent at the very end of the time frame the team has decided not to include any Lorica Segmentata in the official EB2 releases.

    Q: Will there be camel-mounted units for the Arab factions?
    A: Most probably not in the 1st release. The list of 200 units is already closed, although some units may yet "creep in" until release day.

    Q: How does the EB Team ensure historical accuracy when they develop units for this time period?
    A: The historians and archaeologists start things off by discussing what sorts of units are attested in the physical and documentary record of the period. Then a "unit concepting thread" is created (every unit has it's own), and all sorts of evidence is presented to back up the concept. If the unit is supposed to have helmets/swords/spears/knives/shields, then evidence for each type has to be presented and discussed. Types of cloth, ornaments, shoes, decorations, tattoos - what ever is being suggested has to have back-up to justify it. If there's horses involved, now you need evidence for bridles, saddlecloths, horse armor, horse decorations, etc. When we have them, 2D artists then draw up visible representations, guided throughout the process by the historians and archaeologists. And when guys with those skills are lacking or don't have time, the historian/archaeologist/faction leads draw up rough sketches or present a detailed "verbal sketch". Then the modelers build the frame of the unit based on the work done so far. Which in turn is subject to comment and edit ("shorten the spear", "wrong kind of scabbard", "cloak should drape like so", etc). Finally the skinners get to work, and once again, there's an edit phase. And finally, often years later, the unit is complete.

    So what you get in the end is not just a work of art, but something that meets pretty solid scientific standards.


    About the Gameplay

    Q: Will settlements/forts/etc look Medieval or Ancient?
    A: They will look Ancient.

    Q: Will we see the RTW ancient formations in EB2 (phalanx, testuto, etc)?
    A: The phalanx formation is in EB2, but Testudo will not be in because we can't make it work under the MTW2 engine.

    Q: Will there be Roman civil wars?
    A: The use of a Roman counter-faction has been decided against. Not only does this require the use of a faction slot as a non-playable faction, but this would be too Roman-centric. The Romans were not the only ones with civil wars and devisive conflicts at the time. If the Romans got a counter-faction then many other factions should get them too, such as Arche Seleukeia and the Ptolemaioi. Internal conflicts can and will be represented, however, with scripting and the loyalty feature of M2TW, for many factions.

    Q: Will the new agents be used (merchants, priests/imams, & princesses)?
    A: There was a lot of discussion about possible uses but since none of them involved historical necessity, we have basically ignored them for now and they won't be in the 1st release at least.

    Q: Will the Pope and Cardinal elections be used in any way?
    A: No, since there is no historical perspective that could require them in the Hellenistic period.

    Q: Will the Crusades/Jihad features of the M2TW engine be used?
    A: No, since there is no historical perspective that could require them in the Hellenistic period.

    Q: Is the campaign map larger?
    A: Both Rome - Total War and Medieval 2 - Total War have the same hardcoded number of provinces (199), so no additional settlements can be added to the game, although there are new regions in place of others that we removed. However, the scale of map will increase (approximately 1.3x).

    Q: Will historical characters be scripted to appear throughout the campaign (eg. Hannibal, Julius Caesar, etc).
    A: No. EB is commited to the philosophy of setting the stage in 272 then allowing the game to play out as it will. Characters who are not alive by 272 will not appear later in the game as this would conflict with this. There are too many causes that cannot be replicated in the game to accurately represent these characters later in the game. EB is about making your own Hannibal, or your own Julius Caesar.

    Q: Will historical invasions like the Cimbri invasion in 113 BC or historical events like Spartacus' slave revolt appear?
    A: Any invasions and mass-migrations that originated in the geographical area represented by our map will not be in, but invasions that originated outside the map will. When it comes to major invasions & events on our map, they will only be included if they can be recreated with the MTW2 engine following a set of conditions that simulate what happened historically.

    Q: Will you represent cultures? How and which ones?
    A: We will use the religion mechanism to represent socio-political affinities, which are in competition in varying degrees in any given settlement. This competition may end up in civil unrest, if a culture gets closer in importance to the dominant one. Certain factions will need to evolve to another culture, which will certainly trigger unrest throughout the territory, and that transition will be harder if the player wants to do it too fast. The cultures are:
    - Arid Nomadism
    - Steppe Nomadism
    - Eastern Imperial
    - Eastern Tribal
    - European Tribal
    - Forest Tribal
    - Western Mediterranean Polities
    - Hellenistic Polities
    - Indian Tribal
    Last edited by Kull; August 08, 2014 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Added requirement for Patch 1.05

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Cool, I have been waiting for a FAQ. I have a lot questions

    1. will you be using the crossbow animation?

    2. will you be using the flamethrower animation?

    3. will you be using the Schiltrom animation?

    4. Will you be using the M2TW non-phalanx pike wall(I have seen some teams take out the kneeling front row to make it un-swiss) to differentiate between non-phalanx pike formations and the actual phalanx.

    5. will the Apache war path be used? I believe it seems like a better choice than crusade or Jihad.

    6. Will you be using religion for religion or culture or something else?

    7. Are any M2TW siege weapons of any use in this time period?

    8. will the map have some of the same elements(scattered little shiny things) as the RTW? (please make it more pretty this time)

    9. What are the EB2 teams favorite scripting advantages of M2TW:Kingdoms over RTW

    10. Were permanent stone forts popular at this time?

    11. will EB2 have the ability to sacrifice it's population like the Mayans and Aztecs can in Kingdoms)

    12. will there be units which only one of which can exist in the world at a time?(first cohort right?)

    13. Will factions discover new technology through fighting enemies like (the Apaches) in Kingdoms?

    14. Will the AOR be more dynamic and also include religion and culture requirements?(on top of the traditional EB AOR)

    15. Where can I find a list of team members and jobs?

    16. were there any weapons similar to primitive cannons or hand guns in this time period?

    17. Will any units from EB1 be removed in order to make room for the new factions?

    18. Does M2TW require the player to click "show me how on" the activation script every time you start/load a campaign?

    19. Will there be standard Banners and officers?

    20. Is the over hand hoplite formation possible on M2TW?

    21. Will the Castle/City option be used? (I know it uses more building slots)

    22. Can I assume you will be using the latest Kingdoms patch?

    23. At this point of time does it seem likely that there be a public release before 1.0?

    24. Will there be unique hoplites for individual cities?

    25. Is there any word on how EB2 will be using the yes/no events?

    26. will there be any throwable "Napha" or "Hornets nests" or something that will utilize the same animation that is known as of now?

    Thank you and good luck with your fantastic modification
    Last edited by Son of Mao; April 26, 2008 at 02:00 PM.

  3. #3

    Icon3 Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    I am not a team member, but I can answer a couple of those.

    1 & 2) No. Crossbows hadn't been invented in Europe at this point. Maybe they'll find another use, though.

    5) According to Foot this is still in the conceptualizing phase.

    6) Probably same answer as 5.

    7) Apart from the ballista, no.

    8) Probably, and please state why you don't think the current resources pretty.

    12) Can't answer, but there was definitely more than one first cohort in the Roman army. Every legion had one.

    13) Already included in EB1 (Cataphract, Polybian, Sweboz and Saka reforms).

    15) There was an old topic in the Org forum, but it hasn't been updated recently. EB is a volunteer project, so it has a fluctuating staff.

    16) Apart from the Bartrixian Death Ray, you mean?
    (Nonsensical questions deserve nonsensical answers)

    17) A team member suggested the recruitable generals will be dropped. Fortunately, the team has left some model space free in EB1 to accommodate the new factions. Let's hope it will be enough.

    18) No, in M2:TW it's possible to automatically start scripts

    24) Not unless a city's hoplites had a distinctive fighting style (e.g. Massilian hoplites). They are not going to include distinctive warbands for every Gallic tribe, now do they? It would be just a lot of work for a unit with identical functionality. In fact, the Syracusean hoplites may get the axe: the evidence that has been used in their conception may not have been Syraceasan.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    1. will you be using the crossbow animation?
    Crossbows were not utilised during our timeframe in our area of the world. There was a similar weapon, but it was fired from the stomach and it won't be included.

    2. will you be using the flamethrower animation?
    No. There is no unit that would make use of that animation.

    3. will you be using the Schiltrom animation?
    Doubtful. I'm unsure if such a formation was used in our timeperiod, that is something for our Lead Historian to decide.

    4. Will you be using the M2TW non-phalanx pike wall(I have seen some teams take out the kneeling front row to make it un-swiss) to differentiate between non-phalanx pike formations and the actual phalanx.
    Unlikely. I'm unsure what you mean by non-phalanx pike and phalanx pike formations.

    5. will the Apache war path be used? I believe it seems like a better choice than crusade or Jihad.
    It is too early to tell.

    6. Will you be using religion for religion or culture or something else?
    Yes, but as something other than what you have mentioned

    7. Are any M2TW siege weapons of any use in this time period?
    EBI includes all the siege weapons that will be used in EBII.

    8. will the map have some of the same elements(scattered little shiny things) as the RTW? (please make it more pretty this time)
    The map will be re-worked graphically, but it will likely include many of the same elements that the EBI map does.

    9. What are the EB2 teams favorite scripting advantages of M2TW:Kingdoms over RTW
    To many to list. Topping my list is events that can be used as requirements in the EDB.

    10. Were permanent stone forts popular at this time?
    Citadels had existed for centuries. As for their popularity, I doubt the ancients had a show like "PopFort".

    11. will EB2 have the ability to sacrifice it's population like the Mayans and Aztecs can in Kingdoms)
    Um, probably not.

    12. will there be units which only one of which can exist in the world at a time?(first cohort right?)
    Possibly, but is will be decided on as part of our balancing.

    13. Will factions discover new technology through fighting enemies like (the Apaches) in Kingdoms?
    This already exists in EBI. Where suitable it will be used in EBII. Don't expect gauls to suddenly start using kataphraktoi.

    14. Will the AOR be more dynamic and also include religion and culture requirements?(on top of the traditional EB AOR)
    Recruitment has yet to be decided on, but it will certainly improve on EBI's recruitment

    15. Where can I find a list of team members and jobs?
    In the credits of EB1.1

    16. were there any weapons similar to primitive cannons or hand guns in this time period?
    Not that I'm aware of.

    17. Will any units from EB1 be removed in order to make room for the new factions?
    Units may well be removed, but only because priorities as to the importance of certain units has changed.

    18. Does M2TW require the player to click "show me how on" the activation script every time you start/load a campaign?
    No, the campaign script is started automatically.

    19. Will there be standard Banners and officers?
    Yes.

    20. Is the over hand hoplite formation possible on M2TW?
    Yes.

    21. Will the Castle/City option be used? (I know it uses more building slots)
    As part of a certain game mechanic you will be able to switch from castle to city, but it will be heavily restricted far more than in MTW2.

    22. Can I assume you will be using the latest Kingdoms patch?
    Yes.

    23. At this point of time does it seem likely that there be a public release before 1.0?
    We haven't decided upon a numbering system, so its impossible to say.

    24. Will there be unique hoplites for individual cities?
    No.

    25. Is there any word on how EB2 will be using the yes/no events?
    Impossible to say at this time.

    26. will there be any throwable "Napha" or "Hornets nests" or something that will utilize the same animation that is known as of now?
    No.

    Foot
    EBII Mod Leader
    Hayasdan Faction Co-ordinator

  5. #5

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Please !
    use the recruitment style of M2TW pleaseee ~!!~!~!~!~!
    its painfull to be recruiting one unit by one !
    and one more thing .
    KEEP IT COMING ! =)
    nice work on EB1




    = - True Love



  6. #6

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Interesting - Foot, I have some questions after reading your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot View Post
    1. will you be using the crossbow animation?
    Crossbows were not utilised during our timeframe in our area of the world. There was a similar weapon, but it was fired from the stomach and it won't be included.
    What was that weapon called and is the reason it won't be included its rarity?

    7. Are any M2TW siege weapons of any use in this time period?
    EBI includes all the siege weapons that will be used in EBII.
    Does that mean you will have to create custom models for them, or do they already exist in a usable form in Vanilla MII/K?

    14. Will the AOR be more dynamic and also include religion and culture requirements?(on top of the traditional EB AOR)
    Recruitment has yet to be decided on, but it will certainly improve on EBI's recruitment
    By this, do you mean recruiting more than one unit at once/recruitment pools?
    Thanks in advance!

  7. #7

    Icon3 Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    1) Gastraphretes (belly bow), developed by the engineers of Dionysos of Syracuse. It does not appear to have made a major impact, because you don't hear of it being widely used. I am not sure if it actually was still used in EB's time-frame. However, it did inspired the Roman ballista and similar equipment.

    7) M2:TW does not include appropriate models, nor did R:TW, or EB1 for that matter. EB1 is using the ballista model for everything.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    7) M2:TW does not include appropriate models, nor did R:TW, or EB1 for that matter. EB1 is using the ballista model for everything.
    In that case, what are you planning to use/do for EB2?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    We haven't looked into animations and models for siege weapons yet. There are more important considerations to work on first. At the moment it is core-mechanics and core units.

    Foot
    EBII Mod Leader
    Hayasdan Faction Co-ordinator

  10. #10

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Could you hint at what unique(one at a time) units there be?
    I would love to see more unique units, famous units, distinguished units etc...
    They at to the variety. And that rarity makes them that much more special.

    Why would you not have unique hoplites for at least some cities? At least custom skins even if their funtion and stats remain the same? Pleeeeeeeeeeease?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    1) Gastraphretes (belly bow), developed by the engineers of Dionysos of Syracuse. It does not appear to have made a major impact, because you don't hear of it being widely used. I am not sure if it actually was still used in EB's time-frame. However, it did inspired the Roman ballista and similar equipment.

    7) M2:TW does not include appropriate models, nor did R:TW, or EB1 for that matter. EB1 is using the ballista model for everything.

    XGM represents the Gastraphretes as a unit for AS. I don't know if that is Historically accurate, or if XGM is even a source to take pointers from, although I used to play it.(It wasn't bad)

    They were kind of a cool unit though. You would only get a very small number of men per unit and they were expensive, but they had very long range and a high missile attack value. They were a little unbalancing though because they were devistating on the field as long as you protected them with your other units.

  12. #12

    Icon3 Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    It's very well possible I am wrong about the gastraphretes. I am not a historian, after all. However, if they were truly that powerful, I imagine they would not have disappeared.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordSmoothIX View Post
    Why would you not have unique hoplites for at least some cities? At least custom skins even if their funtion and stats remain the same? Pleeeeeeeeeeease?
    Unfortunatly M2:TW has the same unit limit as R:TW, and since EB1 is already close to the limit there is little space for new units, and these units will mostly be the unique units of the new factions. In fact, they may have to drop several EB1 units just to make space. Anyway, I am unsure why hoplites should get special treatment. It's not like other units would not have a distinctive regional style either.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    It's very well possible I am wrong about the gastraphretes. I am not a historian, after all. However, if they were truly that powerful, I imagine they would not have disappeared.

    Unfortunatly M2:TW has the same unit limit as R:TW, and since EB1 is already close to the limit there is little space for new units, and these units will mostly be the unique units of the new factions. In fact, they may have to drop several EB1 units just to make space. Anyway, I am unsure why hoplites should get special treatment. It's not like other units would not have a distinctive regional style either.
    You are absolutely right. There is a limited number of slots for units after all so there is only so much customization they can do. But if I was going to argue for special treatment for hoplites versus say... barbarian swordsmen or others I would say that its because there is a more trackable development of their arms, equipment, tactics and standardized training.
    I'm sure we could discuss that at great length but... just check out the pics.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=1525

  14. #14

    Icon3 Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Beautiful, but it doesn't change the argument. This is not unique for hoplites, they are merely the only ones with whom we can reconstruct it with reasonable certainty. You can say a lot of unique units should be dropped for regional hoplites, but I disagree.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    Beautiful, but it doesn't change the argument. This is not unique for hoplites, they are merely the only ones with whom we can reconstruct it with reasonable certainty. You can say a lot of unique units should be dropped for regional hoplites, but I disagree.
    I wasn't suggesting they drop any units. Even if they did get rid of few it still wouldn't leave much room. I guess I wish there were more slots for additional units.

    There are some unit types that several factions have access to that are identical in every way except maybe color, like the regular classical hoplites). Do you know if these all take up a slot?
    Last edited by LordSmoothIX; May 14, 2008 at 11:11 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    factions can share units. We are not going to take out units so a small (and if you compare it to the other areas on the map it is really small) can have further resources spent on it. We don't have enough unit slots to represent all the map to the same level as greece (not information, just simple unit slots) so to make this lopsided effect even worse would be folly.

    Foot
    EBII Mod Leader
    Hayasdan Faction Co-ordinator

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    What new members has EB2 gained since EB1.1 I am astonished to notice that a lot of skilled M2TW modders (AlphaDelta, Prof, Fedieta) have joined the EB2 team and I was wondering what this means for the EB2 Team and is it possible to see a list of all the new modders?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Do you guys have any pictures of the Roman Army during this time period? I just want to know what they look like.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    I think they start out as the old militia-based form (hastati, etc) and then turn into the classical legionaries we all know and love (the fanboyized ones).

    Game of the Fates
    Mod of the week on hold -- I've played nearly every RTW mod out there.
    BOYCOTT THE USE OF SMILEYS! (Okay, just once)
    Antiochos VII...last true scion of the Seleucid dynasty...rest in peace, son of Hellas.
    I've returned--please forgive my long absence.

  20. #20

    Icon3 Re: Europa Barbarorum II FAQ

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalMarine View Post
    Do you guys have any pictures of the Roman Army during this time period? I just want to know what they look like.
    I think the EB website would be a good start. For the record, the antesignani unit is controversial and will probably be completely redone for EB2.

    Notably absent is the famous Roman segmented armour (lorica segmentata). There are several reasons for this, but it is mostly because LS first appears AD 9, at the very end of the mod's time-frame, and would not become common until half a century later. Also, even at the height of its popularity, many if not most legionaries would have worn chainmail.

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