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Thread: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

  1. #1

    Default Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    I just started up stainless steel for my first time and really like what I see. However, one thing concernin me. Being a somewhat roleplaying type of guy, I would like the characters to old at the same rate the game goes by (yeah I know I might be silly but thatīs me).

    So what I wonder is would it affect the game much if I changed the early or the later campaigns year/turn ratio to the same as the characters old (0.5year/turn)? Would it be a mess with when thing happens and other stuff or it shouldīt be to much to worry about?

    Thanks for all answers!

  2. #2
    ImKyleJames's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Johnnie, I'm with you on this one. I tend to like the longer, more in-depth game, but I tell you what this SS is more of a fun/fast/hellspawn kinda deathwishing horde-swallowing fun-bag.

    Think, Arcade/Simulation Sorta.. dont hold me to that analogy!!

  3. #3
    Clayton Gold's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    I used to do this as well.

    The downside is that you will "max out" your units & technology about 3 times as fast as you would with the normal' timescale. It makes the late game quite boring when there is nothing left to build or anticipate.

    Hope this helps.

    Edit: I forgot to add that you can negate this effect by also changing the build times on the same scale. If done like this, you will not notice a difference in your campaigns; except that your characters will age at the same rate as your game.
    Last edited by Clayton Gold; April 22, 2008 at 03:43 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Im currently hoping and having pathetic attempts trying to edit the files on my own. But I have to admit its bit too hard for me, especially trying to figure how to edit settlement growth.

    Tsarsies made pretty good "mini-mod" for two turns per year for 5.1, he listed quite a few files which should be edited if you dont want to end up having weird effects.

    Here is the original thread for 5.1 with good pointers and guide what to edit:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146946&

  5. #5
    Clayton Gold's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    ^ Nice - thanks for digging up that thread Rumilis. +rep.

  6. #6
    Welfur's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    I'am currently working on a mini-mod for SS 6.0,
    which bringes the early era campaign to two turns a year.
    To counter the fast progress of the tech tree a lot of other things will be changed.
    Hopefully I can upload tomorrow the first version which will include: two turns per year, longer building times for units and buildings, far slower "regrowth" of units and some other tweaks to balance out the far longer game.

    Bis neulich
    Welfur

  7. #7

    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    As i dont have 6.0 yet i dont have the files needed to edit for a 2TPY campaign. Reichmeister is gathering the files and sending them to me i believe, then i plan to set it up for a 2TPY campaign. The 2 turn per year game for me is the only way to play.

    If someone else does it before i am able then great, but dont forget you will need to edit the guilds and missions files, otherwise you will never get guilds or complete missions in time.
    ...longbows, in skilled hands, could reach further than trebuchets...

  8. #8
    Welfur's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Yes I'am aware of those problems.
    In the first release I left the guilds to 1 turn building time, I have to explore further how to change those.
    The missions will be changed to fit to the 2 turn per year cycle including the longer building times. i hate unsolveable missions, rest assured

    Bis neulich
    Welfur

  9. #9

    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    if anyone is interested, here are the files ive edited inspired by the minimod made by Tsarsies

    these are a WIP

    with the help of Tsarsies i have edited the files to his 2TPY settings but with slight variations ive made for fun(character movement points increased slightly)

    please note, this is a tie over untill Tsarsies can finish his work

    also note, export_descr_unit and campaign_script are unchanged, they are for Tsarsies's editing needs

    im 30 turns into new campaign with the files, no problems things are working good.

    cheers

  10. #10

    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Okay sweet, have the needed files, so am now working on putting it together. Its late here so wont get much done tonight, hopefully have it done in a few days tho...

    @Welfur;
    If you would like to collaberate on finding the best balance that would be cool

    Also i think the best option for guilds is to leave them at 1 turn build time, that way once the needed points have been earned they are constructed. the only thing that needs to be changed is the points earned for building\training etc etc. Otherwise you never get enough points, or atleast it takes a hell of a lot longer... same for missions...

    As example... to get the theologians guild you need 100 points (for first tier), after turn 25 you lose 1 point towards every guild. so you need to be earning atleast 2 points to gain ground.

    training a priest gives 10 points (how often would you train a priest tho when there is a limit on them)
    building a small church gives 10 points (but takes 4 turns to complete with a 2TPY game, so really this is only 6 points, and buildings are limited to one per region)

    then take huge cathedral, which gives 30 points when built. But would take 20 turns for a 2 tpy game (atleast 20), leaving only 10 points gained after it is complete.

    GovernorAttribute Piety > 5 gives 5 points each turn. 4 after turn 25!

    (there are other methods of gaining points towards the theologians guild but this is just to show the general idea)

    So just from that data it would be very hard to gain the needed points for the theologians guild, unless you had a very large empire.

    So the points earned need to be increased slightly or else it would be impossible to gain most guilds.


    Same for missions.txt, which needs to be imported from vanilla as SS does not alter this file.
    ...longbows, in skilled hands, could reach further than trebuchets...

  11. #11
    Welfur's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Short update:
    Whats done wth my mini-mod:
    2 turns per year
    build time buildings
    build time units
    regrowth time units
    buildcost buildings

    what has still to be done:
    adjusting missions
    adjusting the guildsystem

    @Tsarsies
    Would be glad to help you with the balancing.
    And thx for your Information, I never looked at the guild system before so I will take a closer look now. I would have totally overlooked this and would have wondered why guilds would not work ^^

    Bis neulich
    Welfur
    Last edited by Welfur; April 23, 2008 at 04:32 AM.

  12. #12
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Glad to see someone is working on this. I prefer playing this way too but I'm too busy doing other modding at the moment to implement it in my game

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  13. #13

    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    @Reichmaster: your mod is for both campaigns???
    I love the late campaign (with Jerusalem)...but i don't like the turnrate (1 turn=1year)...i prefer 1 turn=0.5 year

  14. #14
    Welfur's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Hail thee,
    short update (and a good one)
    My Mini-Mod is now ready for testing :-)
    I will start a new game and will see what the balance is now.
    What is done until now:
    2 terns per year (Early campaign only so far)
    Balanced the following to match the longer gameplay:
    build time for units and buildings
    recruiting time for units (formerly known as "regrowth time")
    build costs for buildings
    the guild system
    missions

    that was it until now.
    If anyone has ideas what hast to be balanced further please let me know.

    Bis neulich
    Welfur

  15. #15
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Welfur I'm just interested in how much you've increased the unit replenishment rate by...

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  16. #16
    Welfur's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar Clivus View Post
    Welfur I'm just interested in how much you've increased the unit replenishment rate by...
    I decreased it, by roughly half to one third.
    But this is just for the first installment. I plan to rework this time based on needed training. For example highly trained units will be far slower to recruit. But how exactly will further testing reveal.
    I think after release of this mini mod i will wait for some feadback, cause I am quite new to M2TW so I lack the experience to really balance it right. At the moment I balance after my personal playstyle (which is quite defensive) and try to stay reasonable. One of the most complicated things will be not to overpower the major forces but keep the smaller ones still playable.

    This makes elite units far more scarce and even more important. Until now I 'am in turn 31 with scotland.
    It seems to work quite well for my taste of the game.
    Now all units are really important and loosing a complete unit hurts very much. At least in the beginning stages.
    Also I'am glad to report that the adjustet guild system seems to work, but so early in the game it's hard to tell.

    I have to rebalance the missons partly. Since the movement speed is not changed doubling the duration while you have not to build something but reach a certain point are far to easy ^^


    Bis neulich
    Welfur

    P.S.: Sorry for my not so well english, if you need clarification for some of my statements feel free to ask
    Lord of Scotland and uisge beatha Fan

  17. #17
    Clayton Gold's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Since the movement speed is not changed doubling the duration while you have not to build something but reach a certain point are far to easy ^^
    I'm not quite sure what you mean here - but I think that the movement should stay the same, as it makes the game more realistic. You can travel pretty damn far in 6 months !

    Nice work on the mini-mod, I'll check it out tonight and give you some feedback. I enjoy campaigns far more at 2 turns/year.
    Last edited by Clayton Gold; April 23, 2008 at 11:45 AM.

  18. #18
    Welfur's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Finally it's here.
    My first Beta of my mini mod is attached, feel free to use it.
    But be warned it's still work in progress, so balance can be really off.

    For all feadback i will be gratefull.

    Bis neulich
    Welfur
    Last edited by Welfur; May 07, 2008 at 12:27 AM.
    Lord of Scotland and uisge beatha Fan

  19. #19
    Welfur's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clayton Gold View Post
    Since the movement speed is not changed doubling the duration while you have not to build something but reach a certain point are far to easy ^^
    I'm not quite sure what you mean here - but I think that the movement should stay the same, as it makes the game more realistic. You can travel pretty damn far in 6 months !

    Nice work on the mini-mod, I'll check it out tonight and give you some feedback. I enjoy campaigns far more at 2 turns/year.
    Feadback would be greatly appreciated and you understood it right.
    Lord of Scotland and uisge beatha Fan

  20. #20
    stefano89's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Changing year/turn ratio ok?

    I can only play with 2 or 1 turn per year, not more than that, because I find it quite "stupid" that characters live off for more than 200 years... If I knew how to lengthen build times and slow down settlement growth rate, I would do it myself. But of course, if you slow down time and you down slow down the other things, it gets to a point that you have your cities maxed out and you only have to build armies... not funny.

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