Scandinavia: Total War

[Scandinavisksoldat]

This last month of May has been very busy for me, due to a funeral, large school projects, and finally my "graduation" from 8th Grade just last week. Although I will be traveling quite a bit this summer and I plan on doing a lot of reading (both as part of a school assignment for my new high school as well as various military history books), I still hope to use the remnants of my freetime to start gathering research pertinent to the mod. As you can see, I have finally been able to update the information for this mod, including a major change to the area that will be included. I also need your input on four very important issues, as well as new team members so please post! (see below for details)

1700. It was the turn of a century. And only 21 years later, many would consider it to have been the turn of an empire. Now, you must either become the Carolean and try to change the fate of the doomed Swedish Empire, or fight with King Peter the Great and his Danish allies as you get revenge for all that the Swedes have taken from you. A new kid sits on the Swedish throne, and the Swedish territories are ripe for the taking...unless he can prove them wrong.

In this new mod I shall be making for Empires: Total War, two major wars from 1700 to 1820 will be brought to life in the Total War series: the Great Northern War as well as the Scandinavian side of the Napoleonic Wars (including both the Finnish War and the Gunboat War). As more information is released about ETW, I will be able to make more decisions about what will be incuded. I've got many plans, but before I release them, I need to be sure I can implement them. I can say this, however: Culture is going to be a major fator in the campaign. More details coming soon...


Main Factions

Sweden- At the start of the game, this will be the most powerful faction. Holding Finland, Ingria, and what is now Estonia amongst other territories, they are a force to contend with. Right off the bat, various disgruntled neighbors will have to team up to stop the spread of Swedish control over the Baltic, lest it grow too strong...

Denmark- By 1700, Denmark has lost much territory to the Swedes since 1521. Now, they plot to regain some of those lost provinces, starting with Scania (Skane)...

Russia- Peter the Great has plans for the Baltic, but first he must defeat Sweden, which will not be an easy task.

Minor Factions

Britain- Britain would become one of Sweden's long-standing allies throughout the 1700's up until the Napoleonic Wars. As long as Sweden doesn't suffer too much (as at Poltava), Britain should be there to help relieve some of the pressure from Denmark.

France- They won't appear in the region until the 1800's, at the start of the Napoleonic Wars. They'll stir up quite a bit of trouble for several factions...

Poland- They'll start out neutral, but it's more than likely they could join Denmark and Russia in the attack on Sweden.

Other Participating Factions- A few other factions that helped out in the GNW and the Napoleonic Wars will be represented in Scandinavia: Total War, whether they appear as a full faction, (like Saxony) or a single army to aid their allies in a battle... (like the Ottomans)

Rebels

Finnish Rebels- Historically, they didn't appear for a century after this mod's end time. But, they could've appeared. The more Finland is abused (via high taxes, most likely) the more Finnish nationalists will appear. Get too many, and the Finns will start raising an army...

Norwegian Rebels- Unlike the Finns, they DID appear in the mod's timeline. Their appearance will be almost unpreventable. It's not a qestion of if they'll revolt, but of when they'll gain their independence (or be crushed trying)

Other Rebels- I may add in certain similar events for various other regions.

Campaign Map's Borders

The Campaign map will be divided into "regions." Controlling every province in a region will provide multiple benefits, which I will explain later. The regions to be included are: (note that names will be changed or corrected later)

Please note the the Regions West of Scandinavia have been, for the most part, removed, due to both various suggestions that have been made as well as a careful rethinking of their relevance. To replace them, the map will be extended farther south and east, though I'm not sure how far.

Svealand

Gotaland

Osterland

Norland/Swedish Lapland

Denmark

Norway

Northern Norway/Norwegian Lapland

Baltic territories

Karelia

Russian Lapland/Kola Penninsula

Southern Territories and other parts of Russia (I may include other parts of Europe, Perhaps as far south as Poltava and as far east as Moscow.)


Regional Benefits

In this mod, Religion (if included in ETW) will be replaced with culture. Each Region will start out with each province devoted particularly to one culture. If a region is disputed with multiple nations holding some of its provinces, then the culture of that region will rise as the citizens hope for unification, leading to the possibility of rebellion. However, if a single nation holds the region, the holder's culture will be enhanced, and public order will grow the longer the region is held. Each region will contain its own unique set of units available to be trained, as well as its own set of mercenaries. Also, some units will only be accessible if every province in the region is controlled by only one particular faction (if I am able to find some way to script this.) I am also considering several other bouses for controlling a whole region.

Important decisions to be made!

As I stated above, I need your help in deciding some important mod related matters. Please post your opinions here!

1. Scandinavia or Fennoscandia?- I was wondering if you think the mod's name should be changed, as the area DOES include Finland and Karelia in addition to Sweden and Norway... (Google the two regions for an explanation of the regions' differences)
2. Southern and eastern expanse?- Two what latitude and longitude should the map go? I don't know how far too go, as going too far will remove the focus from Scandinavia, but not going far enough could lead to historical innacuracy... (lack of Poltava, for example)
3. Focus of mod- What should my primary focus be on for the first release? (for instance, improved factions, better battles, campaign, et cetera...)
4. Inclusion of other territories- Should I keep or remove other territories, such as the UK and Svalbard?

How you can help!

My primary objective (until ETW comes out) will be to gather research of the factions and areas involved for the time period. So right now I'll be needing some good researchers/historians. However, I'm also accepting applications for those of you willing to assist in mapping and scripting (or anything else) once ETW comes out. If you want to join the mod, either post here or send me a PM.

Also, I am hoping to add a Scandinavian feel to the campaign by including Scandinavian folk music. If you play, or know anyone who plays, this type of music, and are willing to create some music for the mod, please contact me.

[Swagger]

you'll regret for that...

[-C1a5s1c-]

what kind of time period will this mod be set in?

[Scandinavisksoldat]

what kind of time period will this mod be set in?

1700 to 1820 at first, though I'll later try to extend this.

[mocker]

I think you should know this:
Denmark-Norway's history is not as simple as it may seem, but I'll cut the details for you:

Since the second half of the 16th century or so, the self-government of Norway had all but vanished after a long series of political struggling for power.
In your time period, the twin kingdoms had no Norwegian rulers.
Instead, there were Danish "embedsmenn" controlling Norway (mainly just collecting tax and governing trade) in the name of the Danish-Norwegian crown situated in Copenhagen. In other words, it should really be considered one faction.

[Atterdag]

I'd suggest starting the mod in 1707 or even 1709 (after Poltava).
Mainly because of the fact that there was no Britain in 1700. Only in 1707 did Scotland and England form the United Kingdom.

@Regarding Denmark-Norway.
The Norwegian kingdom had some periods of stronger autonomy than normally from Copenhagen. But this was solely dependent on the viceroy in office (e.g. under the viceroy-ship of Gyldenløve).

But Mocker put it nicely.

[Beiss]

Yay!

[Scandinavisksoldat]

I think you should know this:
Denmark-Norway's history is not as simple as it may seem, but I'll cut the details for you:

Since the second half of the 16th century or so, the self-government of Norway had all but vanished after a long series of political struggling for power.
In your time period, the twin kingdoms had no Norwegian rulers.
Instead, there were Danish "embedsmenn" controlling Norway (mainly just collecting tax and governing trade) in the name of the Danish-Norwegian crown situated in Copenhagen. In other words, it should really be considered one faction.

Yes, I suppose that makes sense. I'll combine them.

[Scandinavisksoldat]

I'll consider changing the start date, too...

Okay. I have reached a decision. I will go ahead with my original starting date of 1700 as planned. I figure that if CA has a plan for switching England into the UK, I'll just work that into my mod. The Reason for this is because I plan on including all of the Great Northern War. Furthermore, I shall keep the end date at 1820 as an extension of the Norway-Sweden War. You see, the plan for this mod is to make the AI's action as well as the goals the player must complete to win the game will be somewhat historically accurate. For instnce, the goals for Sweden will be something like this:

1. Hold Scane
2. Capture Norway
3. Hold Finland

Also, I will keep Norway and Denmark as two seperate factions. However, Denmark will start out with all the territories owned at the time by Norway-Denmark. Then, in 1814, Norway will emerge and Denmark will lose many territories. Denmark's goals will be something like this:

1. Take Scane
2. Retake Norway
3. Control various western territories

I am going ahead with my Norway and Denmark plan as well as the time extension to make the mod more challenging, especially in the last 20 years. With luck, I'll be able to, through stacks of armies and special events, make sure the 3 "main" factions are equally balanced until the 1800's to create somewhat of a stalemate in which the player will slowly struggle to meet 1 or 2 of the objectives. Then, events such as the Finnish War and Norway's independence will force the player to work quickly and efficiently to complete the final objective(s).

Finally, I was just wondering: Was this the period when Poland-Lithuania was still around? And didn't the Russians end up conquering them? If so, when?

I will try to create a map showing the areas to be included in this mod. I should have it ready anytime from tomorrow to next week.

And regarding the allies that helped various sides in wars such as the Great Northern War: I will include eventsin which armies from certain factions will appear in their ally's country at the time in which the war they helped with is going on. However, I will only do this for factions already created by CA (for example, the French) and I won't create a new faction just so they can appear once or twice in the mod. After all, I want to keep a focus on Scandinavia and Russia.

[CRT]

Credit for the idea

I would like to suggest another name: "North Europa: Total War", considering your plane to cover England, Russia, Svalbard, Greenland, and eastern Canada as well

[Scandinavisksoldat]

Credit for the idea

I would like to suggest another name: "North Europa: Total War", considering your plane to cover England, Russia, Svalbard, Greenland, and eastern Canada as well

No. Probably not. Keep in mind that while the mod includes places such as Canada and Northern Scotland, the focus will be kept on Scandinavia, various cross-Baltic areas, Karelia, and parts of the Kola Peninsula. That is why I will include only Northern Scotland, (instead of all of the British Isles) only some parts of Canada, and why I shall shrink Canada and Greenland so they are not to scale and contain less regions than the Scandinavian territories. The Only reason why all the non-Scandinavian places are to be included is:

1. Svalbard was under Russian and Norwegian/Danish control.
2. Iceland, Greenland, and the Faeroe Islands were under Danish control.
3. The Shetland Islands, Hebrides, the Orkney Islands, Northern Scotland, and Canada will be added in to add Britain/the UK, which was a strong Naval power and threatened Denmark in the Gunboat War. It was also occasionally at war with either Sweden or Denmark.
4. Karelia will be added to add in Russia, a common enemy of Sweden.
5. Baltic areas will be added because the Swedish Empire held some of them in 1700, prior to the Great Northern War.

Though I have not accepted your proposals, I thank you for trying to help, and I encourage others to make suggestions as well.

[MarcusaQ]

Fantastic idea, Svensksoldat! A few comments regarding Osterland/Finland that come into my mind:

1. Put the beginning year on one side of the great northern war: A collapsing Swedish kingdom of the Baltic sea region with a strengthening Russia, or the situation right after that.

2. Remember the strategic meaning of Aland islands and later the Sveaborg fortifications.

3. Make the Finns/Osterland territories hesitant between Sweden and Russia. Generals etc. could be easily bribable to either side. Peasant revolts could follow more the religious factors: lutheranism vs. orthodoxianism (in Carelia).

4. Make the rise of St.Petersburg an important strategic move for the Russians.

5. Osterlands/Finlands territory: remember the importance of archipelago naval units for the transport of troops on the coast. Major paths: the coastal road: Vyborg-Åbo/Turku-Torneå and the road via Savolax.

6. Vinter makes a great difference in battles in Nordic countries. Perhaps an effect on transporting troops or their morale or even a specific low temperature effect > deaths among soldiers or such could be implemented.

7. Regarding cities in Finland: Åbo and Vyborg were the most significant ones. So forget Helsingfors at least for a century. Sveaborg fortifications gave it some importance but the capital of the Grand Dutchy of Finland it became first through the decision of the Russian Tsar as he wanted to cut the close ties between Åbo and Stockholm.

8. Don't forget the German cultural influence on Baltic countries.

9. As to the Swedish kingdom's troops: don't forget the importance of the light Finnish cavalry (hakkapeliitat in 1600-century wars) and their quantitative proportion in Swedish army.

I'll be happy to help with the general quidelines regarding the Eastern part of the mod if you'll need help with it. Good luck with your efforts!

MarcusaQ

[Scandinavisksoldat]

Thanks! I'll try to keep this information in mind while modding.

1. So you also think I should start the campaign after/at Poltava? But then Narva won't be included, making a tough situation tougher on the players of Sweden... Most of the main factios of this mod will already be against Sweden at the start. It's a hard decision.

3. Well, I won't make the generals more bribable. That will still depend on "loyalty", although I could perhaps give some of the Finnish generals loyalty-decreasing traits. And religion will not be included. That is to be replaced with culture (like Kingdoms, Brittannia expansion) unless both are already included. However, the "cultures" will act similar to the way you wanted religion to act. As the game progresses, Finnish and Norwegian cultures will slowly be introduced. Finnish culture shouldn't get to high, as I believe the Finnish nationalism didn't start to grow quickly until later in the 1800's, but by the 1800's Norwegian culture will reach a large height and one of two things will happen:

1. A Norwegian faction will emerge.
2. The controller will face disorder. He/She will have to maintain large garrisons, possibly preventing further offensive strategies for a while. (Maybe even until 1820, the end of the game!)

4. I most likely won't be able to model St. Petersburg's creation by introducing a new city during the game, so St. Petersburg will start out in existence and I'll pprobably give it the same script CA is giving to the American colonies in ETW. With luck, I shall further be able to script ot that this script only goes into effect if Russia captures the city.

6. Ah yes, like when Charles XII won Narva under the cover of a blizzard, using it to gain an advantage over the Russians... I may be able to add the script you suggest, as well as a "Blizzard Fighter" trait for generals who can handle the situation properly.

7+9: Thanks. Presently, I'm lacking research in both the most important cities of the time as well as the troops used by the armies. Whenever I search for this information, I can bearly find anything. Any further information of these catagories would help a lot, if anyone has any!

[Scandinavisksoldat]

I've updated my first post. Notice the major changes being made.

[Theseus1234]

shouldn't the eastern extent be to Novgorod or something?
Novgorod was pretty much the trading capital of the Baltic
and if your doing the Great Northern War, then you MUST include at least Narva, because that was a majorly contested castle

[Scandinavisksoldat]

shouldn't the eastern extent be to Novgorod or something?
Novgorod was pretty much the trading capital of the Baltic
and if your doing the Great Northern War, then you MUST include at least Narva, because that was a majorly contested castle

Yes, but if the campaign map ends to too far to the west, it will be both historically accurate and too hard for the Russian players. The Russians need enough land so they have enough resources to not die, but if I give them too much land they'll be too powerful. So for balancing reasons, the map might not expand too much farther than east after Moscow.

If I'm correct, King Charles' goal was to take Moscow to win the war. On his way there, however, he was defeated at Narva, so of course he couldn't. I think I'll include both Poltava and Moscow for the sake of Sweden players.

[Theseus1234]

well if the king's purse feature in MTWII is included in Empire, then you could probably make it bigger than other people's just to represent the lands outside of the campaign map

[Scandinavisksoldat]

well if the king's purse feature in MTWII is included in Empire, then you could probably make it bigger than other people's just to represent the lands outside of the campaign map

Well, did Russia haave many enemies to the east and south? if so, conflicts with them would consume the resources of the other land, so Russia would not be getting to large of a king's purse...

Unfortunately, I know little of what Russia was like at this time, so any information of them would gladly be accepted!

[Carl von Döbeln]

I Can be A Historian for this project.

[Lone rider]

If you give UK and Russia all their lands Historical, then they become to powerfull since they also had other strugles, so if they can combine all their effort on scandinavia they would be to strong historical and gameplay. and you shold add Finland.
But there should be a condition if Norway leaves the union with Denmark, like happiness etc