Useless and useful buildings

[Vlad Dracul]

I'm curious about your opinion, what buildings do you think are useful in a province (castle or city), in which order and why.
On the other hand, what do you think it's simply not worth to be build and for what reasons.

I think it's important (especially for new players but not only for them) to know, construction-regarding, what's gaining and what's wasting money in this game.

Personally, in a town I start with Dirt Roads (for units speed and trade), Port (ports are actually the real money-making buildings, better than everything else. Just try it in Stockholm to see the before/after huge difference, it's a complete game-changer for that particular settlement), Land Clearance (growing population), Grain Exchange (merchants and trade), Mines (if I'm lucky and I can build them), Merchant's Wharf (where available, it boost your trade), Town Hall (if I don't have any in my kingdom, that's the first building I make, as I desperately need to start pumpin' diplomats asap), Town Watch (for pop happiness and militia units), Small Church (only if the Pope demands it, if I want to improve a governor's traits or if it's too much religious unrest in that province; otherwise, I skip it for later) then I upgrade city's walls and make the next level of the buildings from above (plus Brothel + Inn for the town in which I plan the Assassins Guild, usually it's Dijon when I play in the west or Zagreb in the east).

Later, only if the situation demands it, I build the Ballista Tower-chain (border provinces with high risk of invasion), City Hall and Mayor's Palace (if I'm forced to raise tax-level, if squalor is high and population unhappy. Those buildings are useful for merchants and diplomats also), Militia Drill Square and above (same reasons as City Hall, plus military units, minus merchants & diplomats).
Also on dangerous border-towns I build a Leather Tanner and a Blacksmith, just to boost my militia-garrisons.

I think it's a waste to build any military buildings (Towers, Tanners, Ballistas, Gunsmiths etc.) in a city that's not gonna be on the front-line forever.
Also, Naval Drydock, Great Market and Merchants' Quarter are not worth the money if you're not expecting at least another 100 turns ahead 'till victory.
Neither the Tavern or above.
Not a big fan of the churches, too. Especially that in cities where you produce merchants from, it's not good to make level 4 or 5 churches (no Cathedral or Huge Cathedral, Jama or Great Jama respectively) or else there's a chance your merchants will get -1 finance (I forgot the name of that trait). Except the city in which I'll make the Theologians Guild, I don't bother to make even the second tier of churches (unless Pope specifically asks for that).

Regarding the castles, at first I build economical (roads, clearance plus ports and mines - where available) and after that military buildings. Especially Stables and Jousting Lists (since I find myself quite capable at leading cavalry on the battlefield) but also the Leather Tanner-chain and, if the situation determines me, infantry & archery buildings. But usually I try to build only what I really need.
If the province is in a dangerous place, I try to develop it to Citadel asap (a high-chivalry general appointed as governor there really helps with the process), if it's away from trouble I concentrate on other settlements.

But enough about me, how about you?

[Maklodes]

I try to build a grain exchange once a town as wooden walls (large town), to protect the governor against bad trader traits. Roads and ports are very useful, of course. As a rule, I tend to regard population growth as my top priority. Generally, I like to build whichever is cheaper: the next farming building or the next town hall building.

[GarretJax]

Pretty simply, in cities I do everything I can to increase revenue (roads, mining, land clearance, harbor improvements, town halls, etc.) pretty much in that order. I only build other buildings as need arises, religious buildings to keep people happy and what not. In castles, go heavy on military buildings. I usually specialize my castles to make one type of unit - garrison forces for the other towns, cavalry units, melee units, ranged units, siege units . . . depending on what type of city you're making, focus on the given improvements for those units.

[Satrio Eko]

on frontlines i always prioritize to build military and defense building while i build economically based city on the country, dirt road are pretty useful to increase trade and unit movement in campaign map. that way reinforcement can come quickly. i also build farm before build a market building (except if the region have good resource) because i think farming have higher income. and when you have City level settlement on coastal region always build shipwright first rather than merchant wharf, because shipwright will a;sp increase your trade even if not much as merchant wharf and allow the recruitment of holk or war galley or whatever to dominate the sea and blockading enemy port to destroy their economy
armor upgrade building or tavern can builded later. for quicker troops training with different class on it i always build different military building in each city, example prioritizes stable in castle A, prioritizes barracks for heavy infantry recruitment in castle b, etc

[UndrState]

I try and centralize cavalry production, because they can feed the fronts pretty quickly. Anything on foot though I try and keep the fronts diversified so I can supply easily.
The only thing I don't tend to build is the brothel series of building, and only because I try and play chivalrously and avoid the negative traits of those buildings anyway. As for the high-end versions of buildings, I'll tend to build them in my central (read: oldest) cities when I've got a late crusade going and have the spare cash. The benefits of character developement and beneficial ancillaries has to be taken into account as to the value of these buildings over time.

[General Retreat]

Early game, I'll always favour roads, fields and ports for population growth and income (sans the roads if I'm playing Darthmod, just because of the obscene pricetag. I focus on them later in that case). In cities, I'll usually then build up the market building tree with the occasional church to curry favour with the pope. I build town halls as I have the time and money.

In castles, I'll go straight for the barracks and archers for easy defending, then build up the cavalry when I'm ready to de-turtle and attack. So far as useless buildings go, I'd single out the naval academy, which had the potential to be pretty neat but hasn't really revealed itself to be worth the effort.

[Mr. ZAP]

I always build in the order of road- farms- churches (if Catholic)- town watch- grain exchange- ports. I usually don't bother with leather tanners/ballista makers/brothels unless necessary, because the first two aren't used much for cities and the third can give bad traits. I actually consider religious buildings vital, though, and I continuously pump out priests in a single location with the hopes of getting a Theologians Guild Headquarters ASAP. This is because I always try stacking the college of cardinals, and lots of high level priests and good relations with the Pope is the best way to do that. I find rigging Papal elections is a fantastic strategy for fighting other Catholic factions.

A lot of the really high end buildings are unnecessary in the end, but in late campaign if I have the money to spare I'll get them anyway because I like having really developed provinces. It makes my empire feel all the more grand.

[Vlad Dracul]

I forgot to add 2 things:
First (if I'm a catholic faction), I build Churches (although I'm not a big fan) when I really need to raise my relations with the Pope (mostly in the beginning of the game, in mid-late period the Pope is either mine or elected with my help, so my faith is usually an inspiration for all Christendom ).

Second, I forgot to mention the Guilds I rather have in my cities and castles.

In all the cities except 3 I prefer the Merchants Guild (especially in the coastal provinces). Those 3 exceptions are 'blessed' with the Assassins Guild, Theologian Guild and Thieves Guild (I keep the most advanced Guild-level from the provinces I conquer from the AI, never pay to construct it in one of my original provinces).
I don't value the Explorers Guild very much, in theory is useful (even very useful, if we're talkin' about a TBS where the movement-range is very important) but in practice I simply don't have time to 'exile' my generals/agents there for a really long period, until the game is kind enough to teach them the movement trait. If they would of learned that in 1 or maximum 2 turns, yeah, I'd cherish the Explorers Guild much more.
I seem to be capable of winning without that, although I'd like my characters to move as far as possible in 1 turn (and no, I don't want to use the movement exploit, never did).

In castles I rather have the Swordsmiths Guild (although they don't offer their services very often to me, rather to AI factions) and the Knights Guild (depending on which faction I play it could be my -obvious- favorite Teutonic Knights or St. Johns Knights or Knights Templar or Santiago Knights etc.)

Btw, what's with the Horsebreeders Guild, why can you do it from a cities only when you can't make cavalry in cities? How does the bonus apply?
Isn't that pervert or wtf?!

[UndrState]

Btw, what's with the Horsebreeders Guild, why can you do it from a cities only when you can't make cavalry in cities? How does the bonus apply?
Isn't that pervert or wtf?!

You are right, it is kind bad that you can't get this guild in castles, however depending on which faction you play as you can get cavalry in cities, units such as merchant cavalry and cavalry militia.

But the best news is, no matter where it's built, the Horsebreeder's Guild has global effects, according to Chloe's Guide to Guild's:
"

Horse Breeders Guild	Cavalry +1 Experience In Settlement	x	x
Master Horse Breeders Guild	Cavalry +1 Experience In Settlement	Cavalry +1 Experience In All Settlements	x
Horse Breeders Guild HQ	Cavalry +1 Experience In Settlement	Cavalry +2 Experience In All Settlements	x

"
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ide-for-Guilds

Likewise, I pretty much go for the guilds you mentions, with the exception of the Thieves and Assassins, for chivalry reasons.

[Maklodes]

Btw, what's with the Horsebreeders Guild, why can you do it from a cities only when you can't make cavalry in cities? How does the bonus apply?
Isn't that pervert or wtf?!

I do think horse breeder's guilds should probably be a dual-settlement-type city/castle guild like the swordsmith's guild, but most factions get some non-guild cavalry from cities, in varying amounts and at varying stages of the game. This does make things a little hard for the four factions that don't get it at all, though (Byzantium, the Holy Roman Empire, Scotland, and Sicily). Also a little tough for factions which only get a little cavalry with huge cities or something, like England with its demi-lancers.

It's a bit like how three factions (Egypt, Russia, and the Turks) are incapable of recruiting any swords-wielding units, making it very hard for them to get a swordsmith's guild. Although swordsmith's guilds can be built in castles, which makes sense, and they also benefit non-sword soldiers such as halberdiers and such.

[Aeratus]

I think having the horse breeder build buildable in only cities was intentional. This is to give factions that historically had strong urban cavalry an advantage, such as the Iberian factions.

The swordsmith guild can easily be obtained even if playing as a sword-less faction. Just give a castle to Hungary and give them plenty of gold. In a few turns, they'll create a master swordsmith guild which you can then take back. Hungary is the most efficient in spamming sword infantry. Spain is also good. However, the Horse Breeder guild is never built by the AI.

[eXistenZ]

Havent played medievall 2 in a while, but the armourer chain always seems pretty useless to me (especially compared to rome). The first few buildings dont provide anything, and the latter ones are expensive and provide too little (especially when gunpowder comes around)

[UndrState]

I think having the horse breeder build buildable in only cities was intentional. This is to give factions that historically had strong urban cavalry an advantage, such as the Iberian factions.The swordsmith guild can easily be obtained even if playing as a sword-less faction. Just give a castle to Hungary and give them plenty of gold. In a few turns, they'll create a master swordsmith guild which you can then take back. Hungary is the most efficient in spamming sword infantry. Spain is also good. However, the Horse Breeder guild is never built by the AI.

Aeratus - I agree with what you're saying about the Horsebreeder's Guild. As for as the Swordsmith's Guild, the only alternative to for plan would be to wait and then spam-build the armoury series of buildings :

Action	Points in Settlement	Points in Other Settlements
Build Leather Tanner	10	0
Build Blacksmith	15	0
Build Amourer	15	0
Build Heavy Armourer	20	1
Build Plate Armourer	25	2
Build Gothic Armourer	30	5
Recruit Sword and Buckler Unit	15	0
Recruit Sword Militia	10	0
Recruit Armoured Swordsman	15	0
Recruit Highland Nobles	15	0
Recruit Zweihander	15	0
Recruit Noble Swordsman	15	0
Recruit Forlorn Hope	15	0
Recruit Byzantine Infantry	15	0
Recruit Battlefield Assassins	15	0
Recruit Norse Swordsman	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Fuedal Knights	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Chivalric Knights	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Gothic Knights	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Conquistadores	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Italian MAA	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Broken Lances	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Norman Knights	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Polish Knights	15	0
Recruit Dismounted E Chivalric Knights	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Byzantine Lancers	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Latinkon	15	0
Recruit Sudanese Tribesmen	10	0
Recruit Hashishim	15	0
Recruit Urban Militia	15	0
Recruit Dismounted Christian Guard	15	0

[Kataphractos]

I guess I'm odd, because I build almost everything; pretty much the only line of buildings that doesn't get built is siege workshops and church buildings beyond chapel in castles. But my build order, barring any pressing need for particular units on city/castle upgrade is:

City: Roads, market, farm, council, port, church
Castle: Roads, chapel farm, barracks, archery, blacksmith, stable

I pretty much fully upgrade all of my settlements, because there's always that one time when someone lands an army or two in my core region and then I have little to no army to repel them, so it helps to have facilities to train up a response force. And churches get built because they provide a health bonus starting at Abby (at least in SS, dunno if they do in vanilla).

[robertlamp]

Thanks for sharing.

[Steward Denethor II]

This thread is ancient, but these forums are less active now.

All the buildings are useful, I built what I need. Except I find higher level Taverns useless, the Coaching House and especially the Pleasure Palace. They are unnecessary and provide bad traits, in exchange for only +5% public order.

[FootSoldier]

All the buildings are useful

Just to pick up on the points in this thread ... I agree that all the buildings are useful. That said, I only build what I need in the early to mid game. By the late game I am trying to keep my treasury <50000 in order to avoid all the bad traits if over 50k. Then I build unnecessary buildings and give money to troubled allies.

Usually I only build the tavern series above inn at the cities where I have my master/hq guilds for spies and assassins. Sometimes I build the lvl 3 tavern if it gives a bonus for growth. My impression is that coaching house/pleasure palace produce better spies and assassins, and if I haven't got around to the assassins guild I keep building till I get it. I don't put generals in these settlements.

Similarly I will build the cathedral first in the settlement with the theologians guild. Later I add cathedrals to all catholic settlements except my main merchants guild because of the growth and happiness boost, plus lots of papal approval. Again, my impression is that higher level church buildings produce better priests.

At the large city level building an inn and an abbey combo will give a growth bonus, with the happiness bonuses a plus for settlements far from the capital.

At a guess the horsebreeders guild is primarily for the Islamic factions who don't get the swordsmiths guild or the jousting lists. Building the racetracks gives a massive boost to horsebreeder guild points so it is easy to get to the hq which gives a global +2 to all cavalry. The Spanish and Portuguese can get it too but it's costly i.e. training lots of jinetes you don't need at the bullring.

I do build the amoury line to the lvl 3 in most/all settlements so the militia garrisons etc. come out armoured. I'm surprised that anyone doesn't see the benefit in battle of armour, and I'd recommend trying out custom battles with and without armour to see the difference.

I convert castles to towns as soon as they drop away from the frontline, keeping one or two for those 8 unit rebel stacks.

[Vlad Dracul]

I only build what I need in the early to mid game. By the late game I am trying to keep my treasury <50000 in order to avoid all the bad traits if over 50k. Then I build unnecessary buildings

Yup, that's a good strategy. Plus, it gives me the idea that we should go a lil' further in this thread and also explain a little the good or bad traits that governors get, related to building construction (actually, building finishing) / building presence in those settlements.
People (especially new players) must be aware that if your treasury exceeds 50.000 at the end of the turn, the generals that are in cities/castles have a chance to get bad traits (especially on VH, the game rains with bad traits upon your poor characters on VH transforming them into degenerates).
Ofc, creating a larger army can help with keeping that surplus under control (and in this game it's always useful to have a larger army), but on the other hand, if you really can afford to build everything, why not?

Usually I only build the tavern series above inn at the cities where I have my master/hq guilds for spies and assassins. Sometimes I build the lvl 3 tavern if it gives a bonus for growth. My impression is that coaching house/pleasure palace produce better spies and assassins, and if I haven't got around to the assassins guild I keep building till I get it. I don't put generals in these settlements.
Similarly I will build the cathedral first in the settlement with the theologians guild. Later I add cathedrals to all catholic settlements except my main merchants guild because of the growth and happiness boost, plus lots of papal approval. Again, my impression is that higher level church buildings produce better priests.

Your impression is correct, the better the building the more skilled the agent created there is. For example, from Cathedrals you can make bishops which are better than priests.
And yes, don't put generals in towns with the brothel-chain 'cause there is a chance for them to become alcoholics. And that ruins them (and possibly some of their kids).

At a guess the horsebreeders guild is primarily for the Islamic factions who don't get the swordsmiths guild or the jousting lists. Building the racetracks gives a massive boost to horsebreeder guild points so it is easy to get to the hq which gives a global +2 to all cavalry.

Never thought of that but I suspect you're right.

I do build the amoury line to the lvl 3 in most/all settlements so the militia garrisons etc. come out armoured. I'm surprised that anyone doesn't see the benefit in battle of armour, and I'd recommend trying out custom battles with and without armour to see the difference.

I actually started in the last years to make the first 2 buildings from the smith-chain in those border-towns where potential danger exists, I prefer to have all my units as upgraded as possible, just in case. I even rotate my armies, moving them from one castle to another, just to give them the + attack from the Swordsmiths Guild and the best armor I can create.
But yeah, it's good that you mentioned it, made me realize that I had to update my original post since it was so damn old and... outdated.

I convert castles to towns as soon as they drop away from the frontline, keeping one or two for those 8 unit rebel stacks.

I also have this tendency of not keeping too many castles (unless they're strategically located and near the front-line), for example from all the iberian peninsula I keep only Toledo as a castle, the rest I transform to towns. Same for the british islands, only Nottingham remains. Just as well for western Africa, Tunis is the castle while Marrakesh, Algiers, Timbuktu and Arguin are towns.
It's a good strategy to try to aim for a ratio of at least 3 towns for a castle (or even 4 later in the game).


Gettin' back to my previous idea, gotta point out (without goin' into much details) the influence of buildings and settlements have upon governors (and vice-versa).

A high chivalry governor helps with population growth (+0.5% for each chiv helmet), which is very useful (and sometimes even crucial) when you want/need to develop a settlement asap (waiting for the mongols with Ballista Towers, for example).

If you want to "groom" a chivalrous general, make him governor of a province in which you build a small church (or chapel)/small masjid, he'll get +1 chivalry. Then move him to another location and do the same. You can even demolish those small churches and start all over again, just be careful not to upset the Pope too much.
The same +1 chiv he'll get if he's in that settlement when a Town Hall is finished; setting the taxes at Low can increase your governors chivalry, but it also gives him the Poor with Taxes negative trait.

Bein' present when farms or mines are completed gives him positive traits like Farming Knowledge and Mining Knowledge.

I'll just leave it here for now, anyone can feel free to add some verified effects that will occur (almost) all the time, just provide some basic info (not necessary to transform it into this).

[Steward Denethor II]

A Coaching House is alright to make your assassins a little better, yes. Built it in a city with an Assassins guild. It does not give them better traits but it gives recruited assassins a 20% chance of a Courtesan ancillary (+1 skill) and 10% chance of Femme Fatale (+2 skill). It does also make your governors worse however so don't build it if your governor will be staying around.

A Pleasure Palace does not make your spies or assassins any better than a Coaching House, so avoid building that one. It gives lots of bad traits for governors, and you don't need +5% public order in Medieval 2.

[Vlad Dracul]

I'm currently running a couple of test-campaigns with England (long, VH/VH) and I got an offer regarding the Woodsmen's Guild to be build in Toulouse, but from I read here it seems it's useless so I declined.

There are better Guilds' offers I can accept for that key-castle (like Swordsmen Guild or St. Johns Chapter House).