A historically-accurate Roman conquest timeline

[QuintusSertorius]

This is another exercise related to my Guide, ensuring people are taking settlements when they should be. I'd appreciate input and critique on dates, I've primarily used UNRV for specific dates, along with backing some of them up with The Fall of Carthage and Roman Warfare by Adrian Goldsworthy. I've only really gone as far as the Augustan Reforms.

A real question which could become a set of instructions all of it's own is how to deal with "independent, but allied" settlements, for example Massilia, Arse, Emporion, Syrakousai and Iuvovoaeta. Some were later conquered, but how could they best be represented? Taken and given a long string of type IV governments? The bigger question is whether each settlement needs a consideration of how they were historically Romanised. Some were immediately made provinces, others took much longer.

Here's the list in chronological order:

272: Taras
270: Rhegion, Bononia
264: Messana
258: Alalia
240: Lilibeo (by treaty)
237: Karali
230sBC: Raid Segesta, hold until Polybian reforms
229/8: Segestica, Dalmanion
224: Patavium
222: Mediolanium
221: Arse?
219: Lose Arse to Qarthadast
218: Segesta
217-203/191: Lose then regain Segesta, Mediolanium, Patavium
217-203/191: Lose then regain Mediolanium, Patavium
216-211: Lose then regain Capua
212-209: Lose then regain Tarentum
215: Regain Arse, Emporion?
211: Syrakousai
209: Mastia
206: Gader
204-202: Raid Kirtan, invade Africa
200: Bocchoris (by treaty)
200: Raid Pella
197-179: Baikor
188: Asia Minor ceded by Seleukids to Pergamum
181-179: Raid Numantia
167: Ambrakia, Epidamnos; Raid Pella; Makedonia made protectorate
157-5: Raid Vindobona
154: Segesta
147: Pella, Demetrius
146: Qart-Hadast (expel), Adrumento, Atiqa, Lepki; Raid Ippone and any other Qartadastim holdings
146: Korinthos (expel), Thermon, Chalkis, Athenai, Sparte
138: Sucum-Murgi
133: Numantia (siege), Pergamon, Sardis, Mytilene, Ipsos, Side (bequest)
129: Hallikarnassos
121: Tolosa
105: Ippone, Siga, Lixus (all client kingdoms)
101: Tarsos
96: Kyrene (bequest)
91-88: Social War; possibly allow Italian settlements to rebel and re-take.
91-88: Lose Asia Province (Pergamaon, Sardis, Hallikarnassos, Mytilene, Ipsos, Side) and Greece (Athenai, Sparte, Korinthos) to Pontos
86: Regain Asia Province (but not Tarsos, Halikarnassos client kingdom) and Greece;
80: Mytilene revolts
75: Raid Singidunum, Serdike, Naissos
74 Bithynia-Pontus created and lost
71: Heraclea?
70: Amaseia, Sinope, Trapezous
68-63: Krete
67: Regain Tarsos
66: Antiocheia, Damaskos, Sidon (Syria province created)
64: Ankyra (client state), Hierosolymia (client state)
63: Trapezous, Mazaka (client state)
62: Nikaia regained
58: Salamis
51: Loss of Syria to Pahlava? Or just raided?
58-51: Gergovia, Viennos, Burgidala, Lemonum, Avaricum, Bibracte, Cenabum, Darioritum, Bratoporios, Vesontio, Bagacos
55-54: Raid Camulosadae
49: Massilia
30: Egypt annexed (Paraitonion, Alexandria, Memphis, Dispolis-Megale, Pselkis)
29-6AD: Singidunum, Serdike, Naissos, Tylis
25: Ankyra (province)
16: Iuvovoaeta
15: Veldideno
9: Vindobona
8: Vindelicoppolis, Mrog Arctegone, Gawjam-Heruskoz, Gawjam-Habukoz

9AD: Lose Vindelicoppolis, Mrog Arctegone, Gawjam-Heruskoz, Gawjam-Habukoz to Sweboz

There are question marks, because I'm not sure whether some settlements fall under the areas concerned. Furthermore, I may have made some mistakes or omissions along the way.

A completely ancillary issue is the Marian reforms as they're coded in the game, namely that I think the province requisite is too high if you're playing historically. You might have about 48 provinces in 110BC. I know it's been dropped from 50 to 45, but I still think that's a little high. The automatic one strikes me as a little pointless; at 90 provinces you're well beyond the scope of the historical empire and long after victory conditions. My own preference would be to raise the trigger to about 130BC, drop the province limit to around 35 and make it automatic at 90BC or something like that. But that really is a separate issue to this timeline, just something made clear by doing this.

Comments welcome.

[QuintusSertorius]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the allied communities situation? Should I be taking them and putting in a type IV government? When should I take them?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Italian "allies" would be TypeI governments, but allies like Mauretania pre-Claudius would be a TypeIV.

[QuintusSertorius]

Italian "allies" would be TypeI governments, but allies like Mauretania pre-Claudius would be a TypeIV.

I mean specifically those like Massilia, Emporion and Arse/Saguntum who were allied but definitely not ruled by Rome for a long time. If I take them and put in a type IV government, presumably I'd need to keep replacing that client ruler for a while until they were properly absorbed.

[chenkai11]

Nice thread QuintusSertorius, I finally decided to play a Romani campaign yesterday with EBv1.1, and wondering how will I play it that will make me play long enough and may be will finished the campaign. The longest campaign I've play was the carthagians conquering the whole ptolemaioi empire. Your timeline will help people like me to play EB more interesting.

And the other thread too you posted regarding the Roman army. I was thinking a simulating of Constantine reform concept, A frontier garrison legion and a mobile legion with this Roman era. Don't know if it will work.

Why did I think of using a late empire reform with the republic reform, funny? I just want to try something different.

[QuintusSertorius]

Re-reading more of The Fall of Carthage, Goldsworthy is suggesting that while there were Latin communities in Spain (primarily traders), there were no formal links or alliances before the Second Punic War. On the other hand, Massilia was a long-time ally.

[etipac]

Did anyone manage to complete the Roman campaign using this timeline? or till what date did you manage?

I am currently at this stage and have only around 100k and problems with Epiros/Swebos/Cartha.

217-203/191: Lose then regain Segesta, Mediolanium, Patavium
217-203/191: Lose then regain Mediolanium, Patavium
216-211: Lose then regain Capua
212-209: Lose then regain Tarentum

Regards
Etienne

[Antonov]

Quintus, you write about regaining Nikaia but it's never mentioned when should the player first take the province. Also, I think Rhodes should be conquered around the mid 60-ies BC.

[k_raso]

[mw1776]

I find it hard to make it past the 190s following a historical timeline. I commend QS for his efforts, and his very informative posts, but the engine works against long-term play despite the mod team's excellent efforts.

The AI seems hellbent on wiping out any opposition even with extensive use of Force Diplomacy to keep the balance of power in check. There are also whole decades where nothing much happens.

What I would love is an EB mod that starts around 100 BC (allowing for Pompey, Crassus, Caesar, etc) and extends through the 100s AD. Unfortunately something on this scale is beyond my meager skills.

[Antonov]

I find it hard to make it past the 190s following a historical timeline. I commend QS for his efforts, and his very informative posts, but the engine works against long-term play despite the mod team's excellent efforts.

The AI seems hellbent on wiping out any opposition even with extensive use of Force Diplomacy to keep the balance of power in check. There are also whole decades where nothing much happens.

What I would love is an EB mod that starts around 100 BC (allowing for Pompey, Crassus, Caesar, etc) and extends through the 100s AD. Unfortunately something on this scale is beyond my meager skills.

When some factions starts getting too big, use add_money [faction name], -100000. That weakens them and in a few turns, their enemies usually get an advantage. You can balance them this way. I'm in 107 BC right now in my EB campaign, playing Rome.

[Donten]

When some factions starts getting too big, use add_money [faction name], -100000.

Where does one do this?

[talknight2]

In the console, where else? Haven't you ever used cheats?

[Donten]

In the console, where else? Haven't you ever used cheats?

No.... Where would be the challange in that?

But the event of the 'super faction' is quite rediculous, and does spoil the feel of the game. I'd go as far as to say, double the cost of all buildings, or make all General's body guard upkeep cost 500-1000 D/M each. This seems to work well, as it is proportional to a factions growth.

[talknight2]

This should be a sticky. It's important.

Anyway, what names do I use when trying to balance out the finances of other factions? It doesn't seem to work with the EB faction names.

[sinner]

you need to use the faction's internal name, however if you are adding money to your faction, there is no need to write the name.

armenia = Sauromatae
saba = Saba
britons = Casse
scythia = Arveni
carthage = Pontos
seleucid = Romani
dacia = Getai
spain = Lusotannan
egypt = Qarthadastim
slave = Eleutheroi
gauls = Aedui
thrace = Epeiros
germans = Sweboz
romans_brutii = Baktria
greek_cities = Koinon Hellenon
romans_julii = Arche Seleukeia
macedon = Makedonia
romans_scipii = Hayasdan
numidia = Ptolemaio

[talknight2]

Thanks again.

[Donten]

yeah like this time line I always try and play to it, yet have not found quite the right balance. It is a slow expansion, and by the time you start invading Cisalpine Gaul, the Germans and Macadon have been knocking at your door for 10yrs.

So, I doubled the cost of all buildings, removed Sap ability from all, used the restricted city mod, and reduced the health point value of all siege equipment (by 75%). This kinda seemed to work. You are still able to have big armys if you want/need them, and still able to have something on the build in most towns all the time.

However, what I think is yet needed is to make all the rebel units, more numerous, and maybe a tad stronger at the start.

Question is: How does one increase the strength of the Rebel faction at the start..???

[littlestuif]

carthage = Pontos

Lol, lol, lol! Because I didn't want the Carthaginians out of Spain before the second Punic war, I was giving them money using this cheat...... I think the Pontic kings are in control of Turkey now .
I thought it did work, because the Carthaginians conquered their settlements back in Spain, but I also transported some troops from the Egyptian border to Spain. That might have done the trick

[talknight2]

yeah like this time line I always try and play to it, yet have not found quite the right balance. It is a slow expansion, and by the time you start invading Cisalpine Gaul, the Germans and Macadon have been knocking at your door for 10yrs.

So, I doubled the cost of all buildings, removed Sap ability from all, used the restricted city mod, and reduced the health point value of all siege equipment (by 75%). This kinda seemed to work. You are still able to have big armys if you want/need them, and still able to have something on the build in most towns all the time.

The simplest way to maintain balance is to use cheats to keep all factions' finances below zero. That way they stay where they are until you decide it's time for them to start expanding.