Hoplite formation

[GeneralChaos]

Hey everyone... I know there are quite a few Greek fans, and hopefully some of you can help.

My question is: Does formation depth matter, as far as pushing into enemy units. Say 1 unit of hoplites clashes head on with another (assume everything is equal stat-wise), would there be any trade-off (push/pull vs flanking) with depth/width of that unit's formation?

I've noticed in gate battles pure numbers can push units back, but I can't tell if thats just the number of enemy units or how deep they go. Any observations would be great

[Flippy]

i've noticed when theres more on one side they tend to push the front guys up, also with units with long spears, for example:

Phalanx Pikemen vs Hoplites
The Pikes are longer, and the hoplites kinda get pushed apart, so the phalanx pikes stay as a square and the hoplites just kinda die, becuse they get spread apart.

just my personal observations

[GeneralChaos]

Thanks for the reply.

I think it just doesn't work the way I was thinking. Deep formations seem more trouble then they are worth; they get outflanked too quickly to be effective- sometimes outflanked by the unit they are fighting.

[Selifator]

You can use deep formations in center, then protect the flanks and support your own troops with wider formations at the flanks.

[GeneralChaos]

You can use deep formations in center, then protect the flanks and support your own troops with wider formations at the flanks.

I've been messing around with it. Basically I was trying to see if the game mimicked hoplite battles where depth meant more pushing force and width meant outflanking.

In case anyone else was wondering:
From about a week and change worth of screwing around, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that; formation depth doesn't impart any extra pushing power, and just makes your guys get killed that much quicker. The front row is outflanked too quickly. If you had a unit directly behind the first (like an upside down T), in wide formation, you can then out-flank the enemy phalanx as it wraps around your first one, but by then you've lost too many people for it to be worthwhile.

[themont]

So, if you have a unit of infantry and your setting them face on to a unit of cavalry that are charging you, does being in a deep formation work then?

[Selifator]

No, since the cavalry will almost instantly die on impact it is best to have a wider than deep formation. On large scale with an 80 men unit this would be 8 wide and 5 deep.
If you go with a deep formation, the bulk of the cavalry will be able to sweep around the flanks. With heavy cavalry this can be troubling.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

So basically, the deeper the ranks, the more powerful the punch, but also the greater the possibility to be outflanked. The wider the ranks, the less powerful the punch, and more easy for enemy to break through, but less likely to be outflanked which is a phalanx's greatest weakness.

[Selifator]

Well, the problem with the punch is RTW fighting system. In real life the greatest strenght of the phalanx would be the push, not the spears as such.
If you look at the phalanx it is a close formation with each man close to the others, thus creating one mass that breaks through the enemy.
RTW however doesn't give the appropriate mass to a phalanx, so they can't push through the enemy and have to rely on spears. And in a deep formation fewer soldiers will actually fight.
So for the best fighting quality, you will need to treat them more like spearmen rather than hoplites. Make a wider than deep formation 4 or 5 deep. At least, that is what I think.

[One-X]

i deepen the ranks on the flanks of my battle line, this pushes their flanks round and so its easier to encirlce them. works lovely