Event and Hero idea

[RangersFan]

Things are little slow, so I figured I'd bring up an idea for an event and maybe discuss History.

1.My idea is to have an Event thats scripted in the British Isles around 862, having a message saying that a Aella of Northumbia has claimed the thrown from Osberht. The Northumbrian player should have Osberht already. Since it's a alternate history, we can let Osberht stay as the King.
Now, Aella spawns as a rebel with a large army. The Northumbrian player is going to have to deal with him. But it'll be in their interest to keep this hero alive.
-When 866 roles around a second army would spawn under the players' control and Aella and his army become the players army. This reflects them becoming allies and combining their army to fight the danes.
-If one of the characters die, the second army doesn't respawn, but Aella can become the new King if he hasn't died.

2.When the year 865 comes around, we get a message saying that Ragnar Lodbrok has been executed and dark times are on the horizon, yadda, yadda and so on.
In 866, the Danish player spawns two armies with a fleet of ships behind it. One army lead by Ivar the Boneless, the other by Ubbe Ragnarsson. I think they should spawn of the cost closest to York(Eoferwic, but the Danes called it Jorvik).

Northumbrian Player
So the Heroes-
King Osberht- Spawns around 849 maybe? Special- Increase in Morale maybe?

Ealdorman Aella- I'd call him an Ealdorman at this point, obviously he was a noble able to gather an army and support to put a front up against Osberht.
Special-
If both characters live after the conflict between each other, then they both are in the Northumbian Players' possestion, and spawn an extra army as explained above.

The Great Heathen Army!-
The Danish Heroes- Both Spawn with a large army

Ivar the Boneless- Maybe his unit causes Fear, but he has less Hitpoints then other generals? Though some historians believe he may have had a defect, so I don't know if he'd be able to fight. Maybe he can be a special character trait given to his brother Ubba Ragnarsson who can take his place?

Halfdan Ragnarsson- Extra hit points? Sort of shows contrast to his brother on the field.
To make it really tough for Northumbria-
Ubba Ragnarsson- Third army

If Eoferwic(York) is captured by the Army-
Guthrum- Shows up with another army in East-Anglia to start to put more pressure on the Islands and Wessex

Wish you guys added East Anglia to the list, then we can have King Edmund as a hero! He also became a Saint later on for his defiance. But also sheltered the Danes in 865 during the winter before they attacked Northumbria. Could also make it interesting for the players in England.

Wessex-
One Hero-
Alfred the Great- Great management skills, very pious, and gives his men great Morale boost(this can also be reflected in the fact as Wessex was pretty much the last English Kingdom and after that there wouldn't be another place to run). Spawns with a large army, can also reflect the influx of refugees.

I think this would make a interesting scenario to play out, especially if you guys make this Hotseat compatible!

Anyway, this is my idea, and if you don't like it, maybe we can just discuss the period!
Just to make it clear, I don't expect this to be a first, second, third or ever being put it. I feel like I have to make this warning otherwise I'll get yelled at for suggesting it. I see this alot with other mods.

[Sanskrit_Bandit]

i like the idea, but i kinda had a question off to the side of this. do you know of any good internet source that could tell me the old anglo-saxon names of english cities?

[RangersFan]

Sorry, no, but here are a few of some cities.

London-Lundene
York-Eoferwic
Canterbury-Contwaraburg
Nottingham- Snotengaham
Cambridge-Grantaceaster
Southampton-Hamtun
Winchester-Wintanceaster
Leicester-Ledecestre

Thats about all I can give you, sorry.

[mocker]

It's good to get input, but most of those events were really results of actions done by the factions involved. I still think having Aella spawn as a rebel army might work, though.

[Antagonist]

You have some good ideas, but apart from the technical difficulty of scripting, there are a couple of issues. The first is one of scale, if we implemented everything you list there, we would either have similar lists of events for every area of the map it would be extremely difficult, and would probably take weeks to research alone.

But the more significant one is whether, from a design point of view, we want to go down the "recreate history" route. I know some people enjoy taking a particular faction and basically re-living it's history, and what the game to unfold as closely to what really happened as possible. But other people prefer a more non-linear approach in which they can change what happens. The basic trade-off is the "setting the table" approach, in which you make sure that the starting situation is as accurate as possible, but you try to accomodate the fact that from that point of departure history will change.

For example, in vanilla RTW the Roman faction would get the Marian reforms at a given date with a particular structure, but would get them even if, in that game, Rome was a small AI faction which had long since been reduced to insignificance by the players Gauls/Carthaginians/New Kingdom Egyptians/whatever. So using "historical events" often ends up working poorly if the circumstances have diverged to much from what made those events happen.

I wish we could do something like vanilla MTW1 does, where you can specify heroes and famous kings to appear at particular dates, without having to actually spawn a big army for them and what not...

Antagonist

[RangersFan]

Yeah, good point. Maybe after your mod is released you guys or someone else will do a side project about the British Isles during this time.

when you say it like that though, I can see why East Anglia wasn't added. I was just thinking of the exciting idea of reliving the British Isles alone. Though, if you do decide to change a faction, I hope you consider East Anglia! Having three Kingdoms that have to contest each other, and historically enemies of the people this mod focused on, I think it'd be great!

Problem though, units wouldn't be very different from Northumbria, East Anglia, and Wessex huh? It'd be three clone factions with differing names.

[mocker]

Then you'll be happy to learn that Britannia is our plan B.

[Antagonist]

A British Isles submod is something I have always been interested in, we had it down as a pipe-dream if the main campaign went well, but as progress has slowed down it looks less likely, especially since there are several other similar projects now.

Problem though, units wouldn't be very different from Northumbria, East Anglia, and Wessex huh? It'd be three clone factions with differing names.

Originally the faction list had Wessex, Mercia and Northumbria, but ultimately we decided to drop one, both because of the similar units and because in practice at least one of them would not survive very long, it seemed kind of unfair to concentrate our factions so heavily on the British Isles when at least one of them basically would've died before a player on some other part of the map could ever encounter it.

Historically of course Mercia was more powerful than Northumbria, but we decided on the latter primarily as we thought the unit roster might be a bit different, Northumbria having Norse and Gaelic influences not present further to the south.

Antagonist

[RangersFan]

Historically of course Mercia was more powerful than Northumbria, but we decided on the latter primarily as we thought the unit roster might be a bit different, Northumbria having Norse and Gaelic influences not present further to the south.

Oh, I agree with that. But it also allows the player to follow history too as the Danes went after Northumbria, and later created the King of Jorvik because of the conquest. So it historicly, I think thats the better choice.

Then you'll be happy to learn that Britannia is our plan B.

Definitly makes me happy with that idea! The Vikings and Anglo-Saxons both fascinate me, and the prospect of you guys focusing on their struggles sounds great!

[Plonkdog]

Lundene should be Lundenwic. Lundene refers to the later viking settlement of the area which becomes London, but Lundenwic (the Roman Londinium) was just up the Thames.

[RangersFan]

Looked it up and your right Plonk!

Sorry polak966 if you looked at my short list.

[Nibs]

I am assuming that you got some of your stuff from the books by Bernard Cornwell? No beef I love the guy but not all of his stuff is strictly kosher on the historical front. And with the way things are going we probably need less ideas than new ones...

Having said that, I would quite like to draw Ragnar!

[GodlyAvatar]

It'd be pretty cool wouldn't it?

[Plonkdog]

It's good to be right. I have absolutely no idea where I got that from, but it's a good bit of useless info, eh? *cough*Rangers*cough*

[RangersFan]

It's good to be right. I have absolutely no idea where I got that from, but it's a good bit of useless info, eh? *cough*Rangers*cough*

Guess I'm alittle slow, but didn't catch on. Was it wrong of me to post it or something?

I am assuming that you got some of your stuff from the books by Bernard Cornwell? No beef I love the guy but not all of his stuff is strictly kosher on the historical front. And with the way things are going we probably need less ideas than new ones...

I've just started reading him after I found out the time period. But the Great Heathen army is true, and so is what I posted.
It'd be Halfdan and Ubbe Ragnarsson though wouldn't it? They were the son of Ragnar Lodbrok. I thought Cornwell had called the Lodbrok so not to mix them up with his other characters?
Also he makes Ivar the Boneless a stronger character, but I suggested that he should be shown as weak as it's believe he might have actually been carried around due to a disease.
Also, I made Halfdan more prominent then Ubbe, because from what I gathered, he was more of a support role in the beginning.

I got into Cornwell after finding out when his story took place. But my suggestions I believe are more related to history. Even the conflict of Aella and Osberht(I think spelled different in the story), both of which did conflict with each other, and both of which who joined forces to fight a common enemy and died the same day.
I just added the big players, those who were first touched by the threat or helped contribute to it.

I love history, and I always say history writes the best stories. This is one of my favorites because it's a time where two cultures I love learning about clash and where great men had made a mark on history. Plus for the players point of view, it'd add quite a few choices.

And with the way things are going we probably need less ideas than new ones...

I believe I was clear that I didn't think this would be made for quite sometime, and suggested maybe someone else could pick up on this history. It was merely a suggestion, not something I'd demand, but something I would love to see, that is all.

[Nibs]

Quite right and we do love suggestions we do. As for Cornwell you are talking to one of his biggest fans right here, he inspired me to become a writer in the first place! Though he does take a fair amount of artistic license he does it in a way that does not change the overall historiography.

[RangersFan]

Also whats great about the Saxon Tales is he tells you what changes were made. But if you read alittle bit about the history, you kind catch stuff like that, with Ubbe(Ubba in the story I blieve) dying a year early. I just started the second book, did Svien even exist?

By the way, ever read Simon Scarrow's Cato Series? He's one of my favorite authors, and like you with Cornwell, he got me into writing. I think Historical writters seem to know how to instill insperation, you've heard of the histories, and they put you there! They make the best books in my opinion.

[Nibs]

Svein didn't exist, I think Cornwell explains this. As for Scarrow I'm not such a fan but each to his own...

[RangersFan]

Svein didn't exist, I think Cornwell explains this.

I'll look at the historical notes at the end, wanna see if I could pick out things that he added. I suspected that Svien was added to take Ubbe's place since he died a year early. But I just finished the chapter where Uhtred and Svien faught the Britons together.

[GodlyAvatar]

No, he didn't exist.