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Thread: more suggestions for Norway

  1. #1
    \Vazul's Ghost/'s Avatar Senator
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    Default more suggestions for Norway

    The current representation of Norway seems to be rather unhistorical, according to various Norwegians that have been posting in various different forums lately. I don't know much about that particular history myself, but this post was very insightful and should be looked at if you wish to know more about historical Norway.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...98#post2896398

    Sorry if this was a waste of a thread if this has been discussed somewhere else or something that won't be looked at, but it seems that there isn't a historical modification of Norway anywhere and Pro Deo Et Rege would be the best place for modification or discussion to happen in my opinion.

    I understand that there is a lot to take on with PDER, but if socal was ever to consider minor modifications to Norway then those who know something about the history should please post here just in case.

    Again sorry if this is a waste of a thread.
    Last edited by \Vazul's Ghost/; April 07, 2008 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Made title less offensive
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    B. Ward's Avatar ★★★★ RockNRolla ★★★★
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    Default Re: Norway is Unhistorical!

    these threads never get old.......

  3. #3
    \Vazul's Ghost/'s Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Norway is Unhistorical!

    Quote Originally Posted by bdotward View Post
    these threads never get old.......
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Norway is Unhistorical!

    dont fret my friend i thouroughly agree with that staement it seem that scandinavian factions seem to be overlooked and merely their unit list is bolstered with contiuations of cloning of other units i beleive that they should be given a steady supply of more viking looking units more aggressive instead of the cloning something perhaps like a beserker not sure of realism but something along those lins more barbaric more scandinavian

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    B. Ward's Avatar ★★★★ RockNRolla ★★★★
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    Default Re: Norway is Unhistorical!

    i mean no harm and it would be great if every faction would be historically pleasing to everyone....which in itself will never be, but nice consensus can and usually do take place. my only issue with most of the rants of aspects of the game that aren't historical is the people with the biggest problem with them won't step up and learn to fix it. now there's no problem with asking someone to aid in the process, that's what the community is for, but request after request and a vast majority saying how they aren't modders but can do research....well, when do you get off your backside and learn how to mod. socal has created a great mod and has only just begun to mod....that's the initiative that will get people to aid you.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Norway is Unhistorical!

    i would love to learn how to mod but currenlt i can only learn to do basic scrpitng but i would actualy like to know how to mod if anyone has got any good info sites on how to start up

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    billydilly's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Norway is Unhistorical!

    How about just renaming the Sami Axemen and Gotland Footmen to something not as silly. How about only giving Norway access to mailed knights after a certain date? And change the general to an infantry unit early on, the change it to a mounted general after a certain date.

    This would mean that they would be viking-style early in the campaign and then change to a more european style.
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    \Vazul's Ghost/'s Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Norway is Unhistorical!

    Yes, thats the sort of suggestions and ideas I was aiming from the thread, as I'm not very imaginative and 3 - 5 minds are always better then 1.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Norway is Unhistorical!

    Huh? PDER has probably got the most historical Norway of all mods. Because situation of Norway at the time is well described and correct, the family tree is accurate and correct and its even got the correct Old Norse city names.

    PDER should not be blamed for CA's mistakes on units.

    So please change the thread name to "more suggestions for Norway" or something similar that would actually help rather than offend.

  10. #10
    \Vazul's Ghost/'s Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: more suggestions for Norway

    Yeah sorry about that I didn't mean for it to sound offensive, I had just gotten back from a gruelling Modern History Examination and hadn't had my afternoon coffee, so I didn't really think the title through.
    I love PDER, it converted me from stainless steel and is everything I ever wanted in a mod I was mainly thinking of alterations to units when I started the thread, and Socal has done a great job so far please dont get me wrong.
    So if anyone has any ideas or initiatives, or info, please share
    Last edited by \Vazul's Ghost/; April 07, 2008 at 09:44 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: more suggestions for Norway

    Sure.

    Titles/names for Norway:
    King=Konungr
    Prince=Dǫglingr
    Kingdom of Norway=Ríki Norvegh
    Norwegians=Norðmenn

    Heres a bunch of useful info I've given to other mods.

    The official names are in italic.

    - Bjørgvin (Bergen), Nidaros (Trondheim), Ásló (Oslo) and Túnsberg (Tønsberg) were some of the most important Norwegian cities.

    Here is a illustration of Magnus Barefoot I made.





    - Norwegian coat of arms

    Lion with Axe:
    Oldest surviving example
    (from 1292)


    Today


    Raven banner:

    Supposed to represent one of Odin's ravens. The banner used by many Scandinavian cultures and armies, even in the Christian times.

    - Norwegian army

    The proffesional soldiers and also royal bodyguards of Norway were the Hird or Hirdmenn. They would have used some of the best armor avaliable in Europe at the time like chainmail and scalemail, and the bodyguards would have had the ones that were most protective and had best quality. Weapons they would have used were javelins, throwing axes, two-handed bearded axes, one-handed norse swords. They used the old round-shaped shields like the Vikings, but by this time time many started using the kite-shaped shield.

    The militia were the leidang/leiðangr, who were the common soldiers. They would have used padded leather, chainmail or just clothes. Most of them used spears and javelins as weapons, but some could afford swords and axes.

    The peasant levy would have mostly used farmers tools and no armor.

    - Info on armor and weapons used

    By the 12th century, the Kite-shaped shield became popular among the Scandinavian nobles and would eventually replace the common viking round-shaped shield.


    Also during this period, the typical helmet that was in use was the Nasal helmets. It was also common for Nobles to decorate the eyebrow ridges and nasals with copper and silver. Many wore a chainmail coif under it for greater protection.



    The vida stalhufa or the 'wide steel hat' was an early example of the kettle-helmet, which also become very common later during this period.

    and heres another illustration I made which shows it


    The conical helmet, was also another common helmet. It was basicly a oval-shaped cone helmet, sometimes with a nasal.


    Heres a great historical miniature, supposed to represent Olav Tryggvason, using armor which would still be common for soldiers early in this period (except for the round shield and by this time the chainmail armor was made more protective and reached to the lower arm).





    These are borrowed from tzar who posted it on the Norway thread in Ferrum Aeternum


    Last edited by hekk; April 07, 2008 at 11:02 AM.

  12. #12
    \Vazul's Ghost/'s Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: more suggestions for Norway

    Magnificent! Thankyou, very interesting and educational information.
    Great Illustrations you are very talented!
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  13. #13
    billydilly's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: more suggestions for Norway

    Any suggestions for names for:
    - Sami Axmen (Norse Heavy Axemen?)
    - Gotland Footmen

    At which date should Norway get knights?
    Last edited by billydilly; April 07, 2008 at 09:59 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: more suggestions for Norway

    Quote Originally Posted by billydilly View Post
    Any suggestions for names for Sami Axmen and Gotland Footmen?
    At which date should Norway get knights?
    Make Norse Axemen avaliable for Norway, delete Sami Axemen and use their skins on Norse Axemen, because they use exact same models so I think it should work.

    Gotlanders could be Hirdmenn, but it would be great if their weapons were changed to kite shield and sword rather than a claymore, which theres no evidence of use in Norway.

    For knights it would probably between the 12th-13th centuries.

    Quote Originally Posted by \Vazul's Ghost/ View Post
    Great Illustrations you are very talented!
    Thanks man!

  15. #15
    Socal_infidel's Avatar PDER Piper
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    Default Re: more suggestions for Norway

    First of all, we could have one of these threads for EVERY faction (well except maybe for some of the new ones for whom I'm modelled and skinned all new units...). All in due time. You can probably understand that I'm not necessarily champing at the bit to redo factions at the moment. It's more fun working on all new ones!

    @ \Vazul's Ghost/

    No worries. You were only trying to be helpful. It's good to get discussion flowing.

    @ bdotward

    Thanks man! You expressed how I feel sometimes but am too nice to voice aloud!

    @ hekk and billydilly

    Thanks for the suggestions. I will take them in account once I start work PDER 2.0 (wait, I already started on it! I meant "officially"!) Thanks especially for those pics, hekk!

    Now I'll let you all in on how I first got into modding...I thought it was laughable that Portugal a) was even in the game given the start date and b) started out with Pamplona...So my very first endeavor into the world of modding (before I made Georgian and Armenian and Kypchak units. before I implemented my AOR system...) was how to remove Pamplona from Portugal and make it rebel...

    That was my first baby step...and it's snowballed from there.

    All that said, I will be looking for help on certain projects for PDER 2.0 soon enough. Let's see if anyone steps up...

    Cheers!

    S_I

  16. #16

    Default Re: more suggestions for Norway

    ill be more than happy to help with searching for history etc but im also getting into the skinning business but im not good (so far) but i have a few buddies helping me out who do this proffesionally as part of their coursekwor in uni so that will help alot but at the moment im attempting to creat a basic norwegian soldier you had stated before hand a fyderman or sometihing along those lines but i have started with that and have got the basic structure done but all i need to do is the trimmings but ive copied the helmets from your dismounted norman knights (wasnt sure if i had to get permission) and im trying to get the kite shield going on but i was kinda confused with which weapon to give them sword axe spear some incite in this area would be good

  17. #17
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    Default Re: more suggestions for Norway

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizermob View Post
    ill be more than happy to help with searching for history etc but im also getting into the skinning business but im not good (so far) b
    Keep trying, man.


    btw updated the info a bit.

  18. #18

    Default Re: more suggestions for Norway

    thanks for the encouragement and i will persist and hopefully one day my work may be of gameplay standard (fingers crossed) but ive also got to blend this in with my daily schedule along with the endless stream of coursework my teachers so happily supply but like i say i will continue in my work for as long as i can but its gonna take a while since i dont have any tutorials for using photoshop i have only tought myself and the little my buddies form uni have told me but it looks alright not amazing but ill try to post an image as sson as i can but im trying to get the jists with a way to pos the images. alos conscerning shields would they use a pattern or just a dull piece of leather on top of their shield, yes or no to iron boss ? also axe sword or spear for their main weapon and i may try to create 2 units one with sword/axe and one with spear since it seem norway and denmark in fact have a alck ofspear units available that arent militia class so a good sturdy spear unit i shalll attempt to creat .
    Alos on note with that ive attmepted to replace the gotland units 2h sword with shield and 1h sword and it looks a lot better in my opinion but they seem to fight rather dodgedly and slowly which seems unusual would anyone have any insite to that matter

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