Cvria Ivlia, Consulate of Parthicus/Labienus (II)

[Caesar Rex]

Giving them a foothold in cisalpine gaul is not an option.
Who in there right mind with the power they wield give anything to another on a whim.
We need them out of the padus.

The legion report is only on what Rome controls. Italy and Massilia.
The other two provinces is for the proconsuls to worry about.

[Grandis Latro]

Vitruvius Stands

“After hearing several excellent points from our fellow Senators I have this to say: Sending a Senator rather than a lowly diplomat will show the Greeks that our intentions are serious. Senator Falco has my complete support on that matter. As to the question of what we will ask for, that is far more complicated. We have no idea what the Greeks are facing; we know only that their territory is vast. We know that they have a successful trade empire, to the point, that money might not be a problem for them; then again they might be straining against the weight of constant expansion and war. The key here is information, a Senator should be sent even if it is just to evaluate the situation.”

Vitruvius sighs

“The only thing we can do with any semblance of success is: discuss terms for an alliance and trade. To ask them to give up land would be foolish and might spark a war. We can, however, discuss how we will attack the barbarians. Greeks are not stupid people, if their territory is as vast as we think it is, then they are threatened at all sides. To relieve them the burden of defending their western front would be appealing to them. But of course talk such as this must come after an alliance is formed. As for who will go, if not for my duties as a people's tribune, I would gladly. This is not possible at the present time, however because I have an interest in seeing peace, whoever does decide to go, if they wish it, I would like to send one of my own trusted advisors with you." (ooc: just to help out with the RP if you wish entirely optional)

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Here is the status of our current legions in Italy:

1. Legio VII Claudia Pia VII Fidelis VII Paterna: 1x 1st Legionary Cohort, 6x Legionary Cohorts - Garrisoned in Croton
2. Legio X Gemina (Equestris) Pia VI Fidelis VI: 1x 1st Legionary Cohort, 8x Legionary Cohorts - Garrisoned in Neapolis
3. Legio XI Claudia Pia VI Fidelis VI: 1x 1st Legionary Cohort, 6x Legionary Cohort - Garrisoned in Tarentum
4. Legio V Alaudae: 1x 1st Legionary Cohort, 8x Legionary Cohorts - Garrisoned in Cannae
5. Legio VI Ferrata: 1x 1st Legionary Cohort, 8x Legionary Cohorts - Garrisoned in Capua, retraining
6. Legio VIII Augusta: 1x 1st Legionary Cohort, 8x Legionary Cohort - Garrisoned in Asculum
7. Legio III Augusta Iterum Pia Iterum Vindex: 1x 1st Legionary Cohort, 8x Legionary Cohort, 1x Cretum Sagittariorum, 3x Light Auxilia, 2x Medium Cavalry - on the field near Genoa
8. Legio I Germania: 1x 1st Legionary Cohort, 8x Legionary Cohorts, 2x Damescenorum Sagitari, 2x Ala III Aegyplia Alexandrian Equestrus, 1x Light Auxilia - on the field near Bononia
9. Legio II Augusta: 1x 1st Legionary Cohort, 6x Legionary Cohorts, 2x Light Auxilia - Garrisoned in Massilia

[Caesar Rex]

Thats five full legions...
Those that are understrength should remain in Italy and camped around the countryside to ensure their swift movements to any town in need.
I believe it is high time to remove our garrisons from the Italian towns, Senators.
Rome has no garrison and these cities should be given the title of Roman City.
They have given us our legions and have never turned their backs on us.
Those in Sicilia and Africa however are to far from Rome to be given such title.
Also I think it is high time we decide what to do with the Islands of Corsica and Sardinia.
I Feel that these should be taken into Romes fold.
We need not send Senators to handle these small holdings.
Rather a knight of good standing could handle those.
The proconsul of Sicily should not have to worry about lands across the waters and that goes for Africa too.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

I have checked up on Rome, and the reason for it not having a legion in it is that it's barracks is not yet of a high enough standard to train legionaries. I can implement it by ordering the upgrade if it is wished by the Senators.

For now, I shall be leaving for Cisalpine Gaul. Most senators seem relatively in agreement with the plan to attack Genoa. I will be commanding the Legio III Augusta to attempt to destroy one of Gaul's largest armies. I shall be leaving Sextus Julius here as my Curia informant as he was last time.

Vale senators

[Caesar Rex]

There has not been a decision on whether Genoa must be taken.
I will put it to a vote, can I see a division on the taking of Genoa and securing a land path to Massilia.

[Philos Sophos]

ooc:I request the save game as the censor.

[Grandis Latro]

Vitruvius walks in dressed in a black toga. A protest. He is, personally, against the current motions.

"Senators, It is with a heavy heart that I most support the taking of Genoa. I do not wish to, I do not wish to see more Roman blood spilt, but the people do and I must do what the people wish, after all it is a Republic.

Vitruvius sighs

"On this day I am reminded of the burden I carry as People's Tribune and that is that I must follow the will of the people, regardless of my personal feelings."

Vitruvius sits, his shoulders slumped, the weight of the world on his shoulders.

ooc: dont worry ill vote on the poll just thought id add a little drama

[Caesar Rex]

And as the senators shuffled in their seats to move to either side of the great hall it seemed that the tribunes word had caused a spark.
Not as many wondered to the right in approval as once thought.
The Republic lay in trying times.
Corruption and the seduction for power played its role to well.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

Falco had remained seated in the middle all through the vote. Now that the voting was over he rose to speak.

"Senators of Rome! Look at this map! Who owns almost all of the lands east of Rome? Who could easily crush us by attacking in at least three points at once?"

The senators stretch out their necks trying to look at the map of the world lying in the centre of the Senate.

"I will tell you a story. A few decades ago the cities of the Peloponessos banded together to form the Hellenic League, or the Greek Cities as they are informally known. This League was initially formed to secure trade and protection benefits for the cities involved, but Sparta quickly took charge and under the Spartan kings the Hellenic League quickly 'encouraged' other cities all over Greece to join the league. Macedon soon fell before the Hellenic phalanxes. The Sons of Hercules were run over so fast it is almost as if their holy father forgot all about them. The League's expansion did not stop there, they marched North to the Danube and beyond. Anything standing in their was was either assimilated or destroyed.

Some of you may think this is a mere tale, a figment of some Greek poet's imagination, but I assure you: it is not! The Greeks stand in Macedon, Illyria, Dacia, Germania, and - according to our recent findings - in Cisalpine Gaul! Do we want to be the next thing to stand in the Greek's way? Do we want to be murdered? Do we want our wifes and sisters raped? Do we want our children enslaved? I THINK NOT!

But our armies are not ready, our population is not ready and this Senate is definately not ready for war with the Greeks. Therefore I do not propose war with the Greeks, but the status quo cannot be maintained. Our cities in Italia will hear from Greek traders and travellers about the importance of the individual in their cities, about the people's court, about freedom. All these values go against everything we stand for, namely obedience, trust and loyalty to our noble Republic. We in Rome are used to these values, but some populations in the province might be easily convinced by Greeks sophistries and lies, and try to join the League. Do we want this? I THINK NOT!

We cannot fight them, yet something must be done. What should we do? While I was in Sicilia I met an old Syracusan aristocrat and militia leader, a wise man, he gave me the following advice: "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." Therefore I shall propose again what I have proposed before, but apart from the Tribune, no-one appears to have taken notice of. The Senate and People of Rome should send a delegation to the Hellenic League to get:

I. Trade rights Trade is a large factor in the Greek treasury. If we trade with the Greeks we will profit from their vast treasury, while slowly making the Greeks familiar with Roman virtues.

II. Alliance We cannot fight the Greeks, but they could decide to attack us. Should that happen, we will be doomed, or at the very least broken. An alliance will mean they will think twice before attacking us, meaning we should still be on our guard, but we can divert legions and supplies from the eastern border to other threatened regions.

III. The settlements of eastern Gallia Cisalpina This will be the hardest point to secure. We may convince them to give us the territory because it will shorten their border, make it easier to defend and it will cut their expenses. These cities give us the opportunity to outflank the remaining Gauls in Gallia Cisalpina, and would therefore be a major asset to our great Republic!

Because of the meagre response of the Senate to this proposal, it appears no senator will volunteer being part of the envoy. I therefore propose to lead this envoy myself, and - being a representative of the Senate of Rome - I also propose a representative of the People of Rome be sent along. Normally this would be a Tribune of Plebs, but we only have one, and he is needed in Rome, therefore I propose the aide to the Tribune be sent along, Lucius Venantius. He is an educated plebe from a poor family, so cannot be accused of being a puppet for the patrician.

This is my proposal. Hear me this time, please!"

[apple]

I agree, but we shouldn't ask the greek to give up there cities.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Marcus Lucretius, I agree with almost your every word. I have already said that the best move now is to negotiate with the Greeks and gain trade rights and an alliance, a move that I would be happy to implement when I travel north.

However, as you said, asking the Greeks for those cities will of course be the hardest part of the bargain. There is a chance that they will accept our offers of trade rights and alliance in exchange for the cities, but I believe that chance is small. I think we should wait until our influence is somewhat bigger in that area before we make that move. Just securing the trade and alliance will be enough for now.

I would also like to announce my appoint of Manius Velius Octavius as my military tribune. I feel it would be a good job for him to command the secondary army in the north to fight against the smaller Gaulish army stationed at Bononia. However, this matter needs to be discussed, as I see that many senators are already unhappy at the idea of shedding Roman blood at Genoa.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

"Very well, the third point of the proposal shall be removed, because it is an unrealistic goal and the Greeks will most likely be offended by such a proposal at this point. Should we ask for something else? No nation would send the finest diplomat to secure trade rights, would we be so naive? Maybe we can symbolically exchange maps of our territory as a sign of trust?"

[Caesar Rex]

I hear the consul speak of Bononia?
This is not a town that was discussed previously and we need to have a clear indication of what we are facing.
Where is this town in comparison to Genoa and is it not one that has been hotly contested by the greeks and gauls for the last two or three years since I was in Africa?
By taking or enveloping this town into the Roman fold would we not be incurring a greater wrath?

I have heard no mention of the islands and my proposal there of.
Also the removal of all legion maniples from the Italian towns.

[Philos Sophos]

"I have already said,we cant expand too much.We must only take Genoa for now and make an alliance with the Greeks.If we expand too much to the north,the resuppliement would take a long time."

ooc:still need the save:hmmm:...

[Caesar Rex]

What is our financial state as if we are to venture north even more than what planned we will need more legions.
As it stands we now have one in Massilia which cannot move as the gauls could lay siege at any time.
Taking Genoa will have the same impact and this will leave two legions occupied.
The proconsul of Africa has made no request for further legions in Africa but should he we cannot refuse.
This would leave Italy dry with only three incomplete legions.
This is no way to move forward.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

Let us first get diplomatic ties with the Greeks before debating our next conquests. I know the Optimates desperately want this war and I also know the Populares and some of my fellow Prudentii object to this war, but we cannot have an objective discussion on this matter until after the Greeks no longer threaten to conquer everything we cultivate in Cisalpine Gaul.

First things first. Do we send a diplomatic mission to the Hellenic League or not?

[Philos Sophos]

"I think we should send a diplomatic mission to the Hellenic league.We need to make our economy strong as a rock and our legions to a full fighting force too.Keeping up uncompleted or legions that have suffered large casualties is pointless."

[Octavius-Augustus]

I also wish to see more opinions on the Genoa and Bononia matter. If I am appointed military tribune, I will follow orders, but is it truly necessary to take the cities?
And yes, a diplomatic mission before any military action is the Roman way.
ooc: Where can I possibly see a screenshot of the current situation in the north?

[Kritias]

"Senators, I am happy that this August Body has decided the right thing for Rome and now moves towards the North. I would ask though if the Consul though could provide us with maps(campaign map pics) for us to debate on our strategy."