PRO DEO ET REGE: Noble Titles v0.1 by billydilly

[petertel123]

looks great, but will muslim factions get other images aswell? (for example no kingdom of jerusalem flag for jerusalem)

[billydilly]

The muslim factions get muslim flags/symbols.

[wudang_clown]

Hello!

I like such add-ons to mods, so I decided to post my suggestions.

1. This is wrong:

POLISH
- Władcy Polski / Król (FactionLeader)
- Wielki Ksiaze
- Arcyksiaze
- Diuk
- Hrabia
- Baron

And this is how it could be:

A. Władcy Polski -> Król Polski.

"Władcy Polski" = "The Rulers of Poland", so it doesn't make any sense. and "King" is the highest title Polish monarchs ever used.

B. Wielki Ksiaze - The title "Wielki Książę" had been used by Polish kings only since the end of XIV century, after union with Lithuania took place, so it's not accurate at the beginning of the game in PDER; unless you want to make it another title for Polish king, it doesn't suit any other character (I mean, if you want to keep things historically accurate).

C. Arcyksiaze - afaik, the title "Arcyksiążę" has never been used by any Polish nobleman, so I'd remove it completely; it's not accurate for Polish faction.

D. Diuk - this is a bit complicated, because there is no direct Polish equivalent of this title. Polish "Książę" was in use regarding members of royal family holding sovereignty over bigger administrative units within Kingdom. But in this sense it is not a "Diuk" = dux, duke, but rather = princeps. So, yeah, imo "Książę" can be used for family members, but only for family members.

E. Hrabia - afaik, this title was not used in medieval Poland at all, as well as F. Baron, you can safely remove these two, because they are not accurate.

If you wanted to simulate a hierarchy of titles, then this is impossible for Polish faction, because in Poland aristocratic titles were forbidden due to the idea of equality of all Polish szlachta members (gentry).

What can be simulated is hierarchy of offices, though. I think it would be good to introduce e.g. title of "Wojewoda". Wojewoda was a kind of prince's deputy responsible for administrative and military matters, and "Wojewoda" would suit nicely generals (non-family members) who are governors in PDER.

As for full titles, you can use both "Książę/Wojewoda of Kraków" etc., or "Książę/wojewoda krakowski" (in English it could be "Cracovian Książę/Wojewoda". Etc.

Regarding Muslim titles:

A. Accordingly to Encyclopaedia of Islam Abbasid wazir was the highest-ranking civil functionary of the state next to the caliph, and in states of Ayyubids, Seljuqs and Fatimids that function didn't change. So, it was not a gubernatorial title. Wazir of X is not accurate, then.

B. Atabey was not gubernatorial title, too. It was high-ranking office of prince's tutor in kingdoms of Seljuqs and Khwarezmshahs. Only after collapse of Seljuq state in 1156 it was used as a title of territorial ruler (e.g. Atabeg of Azerbaijan, Atabeg of Mosul, etc., but it was reserved by more powerful rulers). But "beg"/"bey" is proper title for a governor.

C. Amir - this is quite complicated, because "Amir" may be used to describe a commander, a governor and a prince.

D. Wali - governor, sure.

I hope this helps a bit.

[billydilly]

Thank you for the feedback, but I have actually reverted back to a simpler version. I use anglinized titles in my current (not uploaded) version. Proper titles for every faction is way too much work when there are changes or updates.

[wudang_clown]

Sounds quite like a step back, to be honest. A pity, but that's your choice.

Although, it wouldn't be that hard if you have asked other people to prepare a template of a title for each faction (e.g. I could do it for Poland). Then you can just use script replicator, and voila! Just a thought...

[molashkre]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

TITLES FOR ALL
Version 0.6 -> OUT OF DATE A new version will be uploaded when PDER 2 is released.

This is an add-on for PDER 1.0A, it aims to add seperate titles for every faction. Example: From now on there won't be a german Despotis of Konya, but now there will be a german Herzog von Konya, or an danish Hertug af Konya or a spanish Duque de Konya.

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The titles so far:

HRE
- Kaiser des heiligen Römischen Reiches (FactionLeader)
- Großherzog von ...
- Erzherzog von ...
- Herzog von ...
- Graf von ...
- Baron von ...
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SICILY
- Re di Sicilia (FactionLeader)
- Granduca di ...
- Duca di ...
- Conte di ...
- Barone di ...
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VENICE+GENOA
- Doxe di Venezia/Genova (FactionLeader)
- Granduca di ...
- Duca di ...
- Conte di ...
- Barone di ...
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PAPAL STATE
- Pontifex Maximus (FactionLeader)
- Legatus ...
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SCOTLAND
- King of Scotland / Ard Ri Alban (FactionLeader)
- Duke of ...
- Earl of ... (count in europe)
- Baron of ... (in the middle east)
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ENGLAND
- King of England (FactionLeader)
- Duke of ...
- Earl of ... (count in europe)
- Baron of ... (in the middle east)
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PORTUGAL
- Rei de Portugal (FactionLeader)
- Duque de ...
- Marquês de ...
- Conde de ...
- Barão de ...
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DENMARK
- Kong af Danmark / Konungr Tanmaurk (FactionLeader)
- Storhertug af ...
- Hertug af ...
- Greve/Jarl af ...
- Baron af ...
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NORWAY
- Konungr Norvegh (FactionLeader)
- Storhertug af ...
- Hertug af ...
- Jarl/Greve af ...
- Baron af ...
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FRANCE
- Roi de France (FactionLeader)
- Grand Duc de ...
- Duc de ...
- Comte de ...
- Marquis de ...
- Baron de ...
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ARAGON+SPANISH
- Rey de Castille y Leon / d'Aragon(FactionLeader)
- Gran Duque de ...
- Duque de ...
- Conte de ...
- Barone de ...
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HUNGARY
- Magyar Király (FactionLeader)
- Herceg
- Vojvoda
- Gróf/Báró
- Ban/Bani
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POLISH
- Władcy Polski / Król (FactionLeader)
- Wielki Ksiaze
- Arcyksiaze
- Diuk
- Hrabia
- Baron
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MUSLIM FACTIONS
- Sultah al-... (FactionLeader)
- Wazir al-... (of Baghdad, Cairo, Konya, Morocco)
- Amir al-...
- Atabey al-...
- Bey al-...
- Wali al-...
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BYZANTINE
- Avtokrator Romaion/Basileus (FactionLeader)
- Strategos ek ...
- Ducas ek ...
- Despotis ek ...
- Katepano ek ...
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GEORGIA
- Mepheta Mephe Saqartvelosi (FactionLeader)
- Eristavt-Eristavi (Grand Duke in major cities)
- Eristavi
- Aznauri
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ARMENIA
- Arqa (FactionLeader)
- Bdeshkh (viceroy)
- Ishkhanats Ishkhan (grand duke)
- Ishkhan ince)
- Paron n)
- Nakharar
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NOVGOROD+KIEV
- Velikiy Knyaz (FactionLeader)
- Knyaz zemel...
- Udelnij Knyaz zemel...
- Namestnik zemel... of)
- Boyarin zemli...
- Vojevoda zemli...
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PAGAN/MONGOLS + KYPCHAKS --> Kypchaks will be in PDER 2.0
- Khakhan (Great Khan) (FactionLeader)
- Khan (Chieftain)
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SERBIA --> will be in PDER 2.0
- Kralj Srbljem (FactionLeader)
- Knez od ...
- Vladika od ... (Bishop-Prince)
- Vojvoda od ...
- Grof od ...
- Barun od ...
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TOULOUSE --> will be in PDER 2.0
- Comte de Toulouse (FactionLeader)
- Marquis de ...
- Baron de ...
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PREVIEW OF ANCILLARY IMAGES
(some images are from BBB.v3)

it's very interesting,+ rep