Realistic Archery and javelins version 1.3 for Stainless Steel 6.0.

[Chim]

NOTE: RAJ 1.3 is not compatible to 6.1 unless you download SSTC here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=162498

I will release a new standalone version soon.

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Hi everyone,

I have always been bugged by the way archers were "justified" in this game, thus I started a little project.

RAJ Is finally updated to SS 6.0! I have used different formulas this time so expect a better result.
I have not touched horse archer accuracy nor damage output.

Summary: Version 1.3

What I have essentially done is:
- Drastically lowering the accuracy of all archers (by a standard formula),
- Changed the velocity of arrow for a more curved flight.
- To compensate I have drastically increased the damage output of archers.
- Changed Javelin velocity, mass and unit numbers for both horse and foot soldiers to make them more effective.

This gives the following results: Archers shooting at, say, their maximum range will initially hit very little, but the ones they do hit take a lot of damage.
Archers should now primarily target a large group of units clashed together. (which is realistic)
Archers now cause a lot of casualties when firing directly in front of the charging enemy.

Javelins now have a lot of stopping power and are no utter crap any longer.

Installation:
Just drop the files attached to this post inside your SS 6.0 data folder. Make sure that you back-up your old files.

NOTE: This project is save game compatible.

I would really like to receive comments and suggestions to improve my project. It is best to test this in your current campaign or a custom battle that would represent a campaign battle.

If you have any questions feel free to ask here

Have fun!

[Banzai!]

Nice! You should get in contact with the Real Combat team so you integrate mods.

[JMSlayer]

Doesn't this sort of normalize all archers, and make Peasants barely any better than longbowmen? Because, unless you took the painstaking amount of time to go through and give an accuracy bonus to archers with high missile attack, the damage bonus that the missile attack bonuses would have translated into becomes rather irrelevant, no?

Unless I'm unfamiliar with the code, of course.

[thelord]

does this apply for javelins and all the other types of missiles - crossbows ect. or just archers?

[Iasonis]

cool mod, just one small thing, sorry to say this but archers shoot much faster. Historically english longbowmen were expected to shoot 10 to 12 "aimed" shots per minute as a minimum standard.

[Echad]

cool mod, just one small thing, sorry to say this but archers shoot much faster. Historically english longbowmen were expected to shoot 10 to 12 "aimed" shots per minute as a minimum standard...

...succesfully depleting their ammo in few minutes. Crossbows and Arquebuses were slow to fire, bows fast.

[spanish_emperor]

well i think its awesome

[Chim]

Thank you all for your replies!

JMSlayer: I have changed the accuracy and damage output with the help of a formula, this means that longbow men are still one of the most effective archers and militia still kinda crap as they shoot very inaccurate at long range.

Example: In "vanilla" RC militia archers have a damage output of 2, longbow men 6. The multiplication scale is X3. In my mod the damage output of militia is 6 and 18 that of longbow men.
As you can see the factor is still X3.

thelord: this only applies to archers.

Iasonis and Echad: This is my first release and if many people feel the same as you I will certainly change their firing speed.

You guys should realize that my aim for this "add-on" is not to make archers more or less effective, it is just another way of approaching things.

I am glad with these kind of replies. This way I can improve this project further.

[y2day]

Anyone that takes the time to make the game better, even if everyone doesn't agree with the changes deserves some credit for thier work. So +rep to you wonk!

I will try it out tonight

I do like my archers....playing as turks for the first time the mounted archers are really fun, but i think alittle to overpowered when controlled by human player.

[Chim]

Anyone that takes the time to make the game better, even if everyone doesn't agree with the changes deserves some credit for thier work. So +rep to you wonk!

I will try it out tonight

I do like my archers....playing as turks for the first time the mounted archers are really fun, but i think alittle to overpowered when controlled by human player.

Thank you y2day!

I certainly do not hope that no one likes it o_0. This project encourages the player to use their archer more realistically by letting them rip straight on.
This should not make you turkish archers ineffective at all.

You should try it!

If there is anything you feel is out of place (except maybe the firing rate) let me know.

For those who do not like the rate of fire: In the descr_projectile file there is a line at the top that says:

delay standard 10.0 - Default 0
delay flaming 15.0 - Default 10
delay gunpowder 0.0 - Unchanged

Change these to your liking.

Be advised that lowering these numbers might overpower archers a bit. I will release a new version shortly for a more balanced solution.

[Von Krieglitz]

As said by Iasonis and Echad, the longbowmen were able to deliver 10 or 12 arrow per minute in battle conditions.
But you're right about the accuracy of the arrow. Bowmen in medieval warfare were a kind of barrage artillery.

[Chim]

I myself am glad with the current accuracy and if you guys agree than the only thing that needs balancing with vanilla rate of fire is the damage output.
Currently I am working on the arrow velocity. I think that the flight of an arrow should be more curved than it is now.

[Echad]

Depends on whether the shot is aimed, or just pointed into a right direction... Longbows should fire less curvy than short bows, AFAIK. Also consider rebalancing X-bows and Javelins to cope with the new bow thingies. There is a big flaw of Javelineers in M2TW, based on the fact that they fire too slow to survive a charge, making them VERY ineffective, and impossible to use as low-ammo legionairres - as, for example, Almughavars threw two javs before engaging in melee, but in-game they will only be able to throw a single one and be stomped even before aiming again; so my tries to make them realistic failed... Point Blank suggested increasing a range of javelinmen, so they will be able to deflect charges, but do not know, was it tested at all. I think you can test it while improving your mod.

And if your mod helps archers to stop charges, this will rid us of all ineffective archers complaints and give us more realistic tactical options, like the option to (effectively) use archery flanking and disrupt charges this way, instead of sacrificing few peasant units to take a charge and destroy all cavalry with spears instead, falling back with archers.

P.S. Hope this to be finished and included in SS, as I'm tired of low-grade archers failing to kill a knight even when the arrow hits him exactly in his eye.

[Point Blank]

The ongoing problem with archery is that low grade archers are too effective vs armored targets and not effective enough vs unarmored targets. This is an engine limitation.

But otherwise its worth looking at any ways of simulating missile fire effects.

In the absence of favourable terrain conditions, missile weapons were generally unable to stop charges via sheer firepower until the mid 1800's.

[Vindahl]

I once had something of a similar Mod to SS, but I had to abondon it due to lack of interest... I still use it myself, I have kept updating it for my own pleasure... But perhaps you can find something useful or read someones opinion and pro suggestions...
I have had two mods, the first one was very simple and then I devolped this further the way, with some more advanced changes...

The link I found is here...

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...hlight=Vindahl

Hope you can use it, otherwise good luck with the project...

[Echad]

The ongoing problem with archery is that low grade archers are too effective vs armored targets and not effective enough vs unarmored targets. This is an engine limitation.

But otherwise its worth looking at any ways of simulating missile fire effects.

In the absence of favourable terrain conditions, missile weapons were generally unable to stop charges via sheer firepower until the mid 1800's.

I mean by flanking them with longbows and/or javelins - read something about the English Longbowmen and Almughavars doing it succesfully.

P.S. I am ok with longbows as they were (even nerfed from vanilla, and still costy, they own everything), but javs do need some improvement.

[Erlinggra]

Olala, this sounds very nice. I always thought archers were to effective at long distances and too little effective at short. But whenever I mentioned it my friends always dismissed it, so I thought no one else agreed with me

By the way is there a way to make them more accurate at closer ranges?

[DeaDBolT]

I really like this mod, i always thought it so unrealistic to have to hit heavier units like Knights so many times, instead of easily hitting them but doing little damage this mod makes archery more realistic and still maintains a balance.

It would be awesome if a change to Javelinmen could be included as well, because instead of using the javelins before they charge into melee you actually have to set Javelinmen as your second line of infantry in Vanilla to be able to allow them to throw their javelins effectively.

[Chim]

Thank you all for replying

Things to do:

- Fix rate of fire
- perhaps give arrows and javelins more mass to make enemy units get knocked down?

The reason why I initially did not change Javelineers and Crossbow men is that I did not intend to make archers more effective. But if people feel like crossbow units and Javelineers are neglected I can turn my head at those too.

Vindahl: Thank you for the info! I just checked it out. Us two have very different approaches towards realism. There were some good things in that thread that I can work with though.

Erlinggra: You cannot really set effectiveness for different kind of ranges (AFAIK). But in my tests the killing rates were pretty high when shooting volleys at a nearby enemy.

[Echad]

Mass... Not for all archers, maybe some for longbows and/or composite ones? But for javs - yes.