Why Ireland?

[Allu X]

Don't remove Ireland, they ballance the isles - they have a neat faction symbol and intresting units.

Also they provide a nice challenge for a human player and are nice for when you don't want to be invaded left right and center, playing as them is peaceful

HOWEVER:

I agree that if they are staying their aggressive and diplomaticness needs to be improved massivley as they havn't even made an alliance or declared war (I have game them Angers to try and get them to mingle, but still nothing!) in my game at turn 100! >_>

[Echad]

As AI, in most games they are controlling 2-3 provinces in Ireland, or wiped out altogether.

[-Aquila-]

I personally like this faction, but like allu x has said they need improving in their aggressiveness so there is more of a fight in the british isles, they should be fighting for their independence (well that is a little later on i know).

[Echad]

like allu x has said

He actually seconded my statement.

[Lord_Calidor]

Ships were prepared
Weapons and shields
Sails were raised
We headed out to sea!

Norway disappeared in the east
Our journey had begun
Helpful winds gave us our speed
Under a warming sun

Heading to the emerald land
A fleet of 50 ships
An army of two thousand men lead by the king

On the horizon dark clouds arose
Thor rode across the black clouds
As the night rolled in over us
We felt the wrath of the storm

That night I was haunted by dreams
An omen, of what was to come
The serpent arose from the sea

Ready to strike
With hammer in hand
The serpent in pain,
twisting in furious rage!
Fought for its life
The serpent escaped
Thor was in rage
My dreams began to fade

Woke from dreams
Sword in my hand
The break of dawn
We were closing in on Irish land
Time to attack
Grabbed our shields
We came ashore
And saw the waiting horde

The fight was short and deadly intense
The Irish fought us well
But as we gained the upperhand
Their fighting spirit quelled

Ready to strike
With swords in our hands
They struggle with heart
The Irish fell to our wrath
Fought for his life
Their king escaped
With fury divine
King Olaf threw his sword


Ireland must stay! (so it can be conquered by Norse) \m/

[-Aquila-]

oh most have missed that out Echad, well then I also agree wid you (no such thing a thirded lol).

[Echad]

You can... I even fouthed some statement!

[-Aquila-]

it just doesnt sound right, i dont think 'thirded' is a word

[Echad]

It is... It is made of a root "third-" with the ending of "-ed". I can also create the words fourthed, fifthed, sixted, seventhed, eighted, ninethed and tenthed!

P.S. We should merge this thread with Vasques' thread of "Will SS 6.0 came out on St. Patty: into the "Irish Lesbians" thread, and post videos and pics here!

[TzuDevil]

This mod in progess has the best (to my tastes) map of the time period that I have seen....

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=122968

Notice, no Ireland... he he he! Just jokes! But really, Georgia for Ireland....

Seriously...

Cheers!

PS Well, in my experience, Irelend produces beer for real men, and whisky that will make really drunk men fight.

[Scamander]

But really, Georgia for Ireland....

Here! Here!

[delra]

Irish gay lobby will never agree to this idea.

I will. :-)

[MORBIDYAM]

Well if you get rid of Ireland then what stops you from getting rid of Scotland, because Scotland was pretty insignificant also, I mean they were added to make a balance to England because it would be pretty boring if England just sat there and had all of Britain. And isn’t it just depressing to look at a grey rebel Ireland? This depressed me so much in vanilla, because all that ever happened would be Portugal just going over there and sieging Dublin and in the process somehow managing to declare war on the entire world in the process.
Do you really want to go back to psycho-Portugal days just for Georgia? I for one do not! When Portugal goes and tries to take Dublin, there needs to be an Irish nation there to be like what the crap man!?!?!?!?! and pummel them back to Lisbon. Besides if you look at the map preview you would notice there are only 2 cities for where Georgia would be able to expand, so I mean it would be kind of a waste.

Besides as mentioned earlier people like Ireland (and Scotland) because they are underdog factions, they aren’t supposed to win or be significant, so when you conquer the world as Ireland, and you are taking Caesarea from the Turks you think to yourself "man I bet the Seljuk Sultanate never expected to be conquered by Ireland" and you just feel this sense of accomplishment that you don’t feel as say HRE. And you definitely don’t get that feeling when you conquer the world as Milan/Genoa/Venice, because they aren’t underdogs they are just annoying factions that always backstab you.

The one I really don’t understand is Serbia because replacing Serbia for Ireland wouldn't even balance anything at all because in my opinion the area in which Serbia would be added is the most well balanced area in the game because every game someone different always controls it.

[TzuDevil]

I don't have anything against Ireland in and of itself, my comment is related to overall gameplay of the mod...

I have played short campaigns with Ireland, Scotland and England, and aside from the different units, the camaigns themselves are all very similar with the feel of Ireland and Scotland being nearly identical: Conquer Great Britain, move on to Europe etc etc.

When I came to SS, there were other underdog factions that could be considered ahistorically represented as a fully functioning faction in 1080 in a similar sense to Ireland; like Lithuania. But, Lithuania adds a lot more to gameplay (a pagan religion sandwiched between Orthodox Russia, and newly converted Catholic Poland), and is much different then say Poland, to play as.

Currently, there is a giant space between Russia and the Turks, which in part was helped by the nice addition of Kievan Rus, but it is still pretty empty.

Adding Georgia (another Pagan faction) would be both historically reasonable as a full faction, and a LOT of fun to play; stuck between the powerful Turks, expanding Othodox factions of Russia and Kievan Rus, and in the direct path of the emerging Mongols, no matter where they show up!

It would also make the Turks more interesting to play, and maybe even Egypt.

As an aside, I really like Portugal as an operating faction in my own games, but I would gladly give them up for another eastern faction down by Egypt, as Egypt is currently *by far* the most boring faction to play as, because the real turmoil that existed down there just can't be represented very well right now...

So, to reitterate, I am not knocking Irish people or Ireland herself, I am simply making a comment about the overall gameplay of the SS mod, which in my opinion could get a nice little boost in (re)playability by swapping Ireland for Georgia.

Cheers!

[Son of Mao]

Ireland should be removed

[MORBIDYAM]

Well I would agree that Georgia might be better if the map had a greater eastern Emphasis. But when you look at the map previews, there are not many eastern cities, and the thing is in my opinion, if you want to actually get to fight any of the newer eastern factions (considering the sparseness of cities there) you want as little obstacles as possible for them to invade westward so that you see them. So if Georgia was there it would block the flow of another nation westward, and to be honest I really don’t think playing in the east will be all that fun (Eastern Russia never was). It seems like the east is more for starting out in and then invading westward, I don't have much fun playing in Eastern Russia on the map as it is. So I think its best not to have too many factions in a sparse area.

On the other hand Ireland is necessary because it makes 5 provinces useful, Dublin, Cork, Galway, Caernarvon and Cardiff, without Ireland all of these provinces would be basically worthless.

I liked it when Portugal invaded random stuff too, but at the same time it got annoying when there was no one to contest Ireland from them. Making Ireland rebel would basically imply that it was a pointless piece of land when in actuality many nations tried to conquer it, much like Italy. Alot of naval battles also took place off the Irish coast.

You could argue that the ai of Spain or Portugal could take these lands and then fight the English and Scottish, but unless the ai really progresses in 6.0, I think Ireland is necessary to keep up some conflict in the area.

I don't have anything against Ireland in and of itself, my comment is related to overall gameplay of the mod...

I have played short campaigns with Ireland, Scotland and England, and aside from the different units, the camaigns themselves are all very similar with the feel of Ireland and Scotland being nearly identical: Conquer Great Britain, move on to Europe etc etc.

The gameplay of Poland and Hungary are basically the same but few would advocate getting rid of either.

Also from a purely gameplay perspective it would be more advantageous to get rid of Scotland because you could have a 3 way battle for the region between Ireland, Norway and England for Northern Britain, but you would only have a 2 way battle (England and Scotland) for Ireland

[spanish_emperor]

Well I would agree that Georgia might be better if the map had a greater eastern Emphasis. But when you look at the map previews, there are not many eastern cities, and the thing is in my opinion, if you want to actually get to fight any of the newer eastern factions (considering the sparseness of cities there) you want as little obstacles as possible for them to invade westward so that you see them

true but putting georgia in would make the east more interesting. It is a shame that such an enourmous peice of land is always being contested by the Byzantines, Fatamid and Seljuk empires with Templars and KoJ intervening once in a while. But he tell that to KK if you want more cities in the east (although i will doubt that he'll do that for 6.0)

So if Georgia was there it would block the flow of another nation westward, and to be honest I really don’t think playing in the east will be all that fun (Eastern Russia never was).

Do you mean Keivan Rus?? Geiorgia would not interfere with westward movement because it is between the black and caspian seas, so it would only prevent the turks moving northward. Which btw is good since it would give the turks an opponent rather than the byzantines and prevent a keivan rus and turkish fights too early, and of course in 6.0 the cumans will be around there aswell so kievan rus will be way more interesting to play as than before.

On the other hand Ireland is necessary because it makes 5 provinces useful, Dublin, Cork, Galway, Caernarvon and Cardiff, without Ireland all of these provinces would be basically worthless.

cardiff won't be there anymore i believe.....look at SS 6.0 map
and we could always give ireland two provinces and put a new one in the middle east since you say there aren't enough. Problem solved

The gameplay of Poland and Hungary are basically the same but few would advocate getting rid of either.

Are you joking

Also from a purely gameplay perspective it would be more advantageous to get rid of Scotland because you could have a 3 way battle for the region between Ireland, Norway and England for Northern Britain, but you would only have a 2 way battle (England and Scotland) for Ireland

actually 3 if you count norway and even 4 if portugal drops for a visit

[TzuDevil]

Also from a purely gameplay perspective it would be more advantageous to get rid of Scotland because you could have a 3 way battle for the region between Ireland, Norway and England for Northern Britain, but you would only have a 2 way battle (England and Scotland) for Ireland

Very good point!

Cheers!

[Banzai!]

Ireland is only there to piss of the British players.

[Inhuman One]

just stop all the whining about factions. its up to KK and he already filled all slots.