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Thread: historical portraits for 58BC

  1. #41

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Although I in 77BC he is a bit younger than historically, as he had the tendency to die after 4 years of campaign. But, please, do not tell Bucellarii about that
    I am watching

  2. #42

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Added:


  3. #43

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Wow! Those are fantastic! I am sorry I didn't see this before!
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

  4. #44

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Salvor Hardin View Post
    Added:

    beautiful!
    you may wanna change that "the Butcher" line though

  5. #45

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    I must confess that I am quite happy with that epithet for Mithradates. After all, he is said to have slaughtered (IIRC) 20.000 Italic in Asia

  6. #46

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Indeed, I think it is very appropriate.
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

  7. #47

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Salvor Hardin View Post
    I must confess that I am quite happy with that epithet for Mithradates. After all, he is said to have slaughtered (IIRC) 20.000 Italic in Asia
    and how many hudreds of thousands have Ceasar slaughtered in Gaul?
    no one calls him a butcher, do they?

  8. #48
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    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    and how many hudreds of thousands have Ceasar slaughtered in Gaul?
    no one calls him a butcher, do they?
    Of course not official, but i think a lot called Gaius Julius exactly this way, the Gallic war was one reason that he got more and more enemies in Rome, after all his legions killed a lot of Gallic tax-payers in the so-called Rome-friendly regions.
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  9. #49

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    Of course not official, but i think a lot called Gaius Julius exactly this way, the Gallic war was one reason that he got more and more enemies in Rome, after all his legions killed a lot of Gallic tax-payers in the so-called Rome-friendly regions.
    thats exactly my point. but who in the west mentions it nowadays, a scholar or two?
    as far as im concerned they are all butchers to bigger or lesser degree. it isnt fair singling out Mithridates. i think we still view history through stereotypes created by Roman propaganda like sources.
    when it comes to Ceasar he is a glorious hero. books written, movies shot...
    but when it comes to Mithridates, king, who pushed Pontus to its greatest glory and strength (just like the other oriental "tyran", Tigran, btw) he is oriental pomp and a tyran
    they are ALL self-centered, sinful politicians and killers, no goods and bads there. everyone seeked and defended his own agenda. can you blame them for that?

  10. #50

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Doubtless Mithradates and Tigranes have both been unfairly treated by Roman historians and I would prefer to see the title Mithradates VI Eupator Dionysos on the unit unit card

    Interestingly as later recounted by Valerius Maximus, the orator Helvius Mancia witheringly describes Cn Pompeius Magnus as an Adulescentulus Carnifex or boy butcher:

    I saw Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus dripping with blood...I saw...Marcus Brutus lacerated by the sword...I saw Gnaeus Carbo...bound by the chains you had ordered thrown upon him, testifying that, when he held the highest command, he had, contrary to all that is holy and unholy, been slaughtered by you, a Roman knight. I saw Perpenna cursing your savagery, and all of them screaming with one angry voice, because without trial they had died at the hands of the likes of you, a teenage butcher.

    Val. Max 6.2.8

  11. #51

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Quote Originally Posted by bucellarii View Post
    Doubtless Mithradates and Tigranes have both been unfairly treated by Roman historians and I would prefer to see the title Mithradates VI Eupator Dionysos on the unit unit card

    Interestingly as later recounted by Valerius Maximus, the orator Helvius Mancia witheringly describes Cn Pompeius Magnus as an Adulescentulus Carnifex or boy butcher:

    I saw Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus dripping with blood...I saw...Marcus Brutus lacerated by the sword...I saw Gnaeus Carbo...bound by the chains you had ordered thrown upon him, testifying that, when he held the highest command, he had, contrary to all that is holy and unholy, been slaughtered by you, a Roman knight. I saw Perpenna cursing your savagery, and all of them screaming with one angry voice, because without trial they had died at the hands of the likes of you, a teenage butcher.

    Val. Max 6.2.8
    Well, curiously (or not) enough, Pompey also gets the "butcher trait" quite easily in 77 BC.

    Sarkiss, I see your point. But just consider that we are trying to portray history according to our existing sources, i.e. the winners. So it is quite logical that part of their biased vision sometimes slips -even subconciously- in our (this time, my) work.

    So, as soon as I can, I will give Mithradates the epiteth "VI Eupator Dionysos".

    Now that we are on it, should Tigran get some sort of epiteth too?

  12. #52

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Salvor Hardin View Post
    Well, curiously (or not) enough, Pompey also gets the "butcher trait" quite easily in 77 BC.

    Sarkiss, I see your point. But just consider that we are trying to portray history according to our existing sources, i.e. the winners. So it is quite logical that part of their biased vision sometimes slips -even subconciously- in our (this time, my) work.

    So, as soon as I can, I will give Mithradates the epiteth "VI Eupator Dionysos".

    Now that we are on it, should Tigran get some sort of epiteth too?
    Tigran II Artaxiad would be the best bet imo.
    Salvor, beside other things calling a historical figure just a butcher is quite frankly kind of primitive. it would suffice for vanilla (along with war dogs) but not something so extensively worked on, in regard to both, research and modding. this mod we all come to love, deserves better!
    sorry for wining, just couldnt resist...

    @ buce
    man, you rock! where do you get all those quotes!?
    thanks, guys

  13. #53

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Tigran II Artaxiad would be the best bet imo
    Yup or something more Hellenized as seen on some coins of the period - Tigran/Tigranes II Megas Basileus.

    Of course if we want to completely Hellenize the name (which I don't!) it should read Tigranou Megas Basileus

    man, you rock! where do you get all those quotes!?


    Decent books with good footnotes

    For example the extract from Valerius Maximus is footnoted in both CAH Vol IX and Pompey The Great by Robin Seager.
    Last edited by bucellarii; April 10, 2008 at 08:15 AM.

  14. #54

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Quote Originally Posted by bucellarii View Post
    Yup or something more Hellenized as seen on some coins of the period - Tigran/Tigranes II Megas Basileus.

    Of course if we want to completely Hellenize the name (which I don't!) it should read Tigranou Megas Basileus
    or if you want to Armenize the name it'd be like Tigran II Metz Artashesian.
    Tigranes II Megas Basileus sound good

  15. #55

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Tigranes II Megas Basileus has forged a new empire and now represents a threat to both Parthia and Rome
    The opening line of the faction description I drafted many moons ago

    Needless to say I also believe Tigranes II Megas Basileus sounds pretty good

    Salvor?

    Tigran II Metz Artashesian
    Funnily enough I also noted this down as a possiblity. Of course not speaking a word of Armenian I wasn't sure my spelling was entirely accurate.

    A lucky guess I suppose

  16. #56

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    Quote Originally Posted by bucellarii View Post
    Funnily enough I also noted this down as a possiblity. Of course not speaking a word of Armenian I wasn't sure my spelling was entirely accurate.

    A lucky guess I suppose
    you see, you have a potential. you should start studying it

  17. #57

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC




    How about Vercingetorix?

  18. #58

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    good idea man!!
    and Ambiorix? (if he's in?)
    One land, One king

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  19. #59

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC

    He is in. Although I do not know if there are any portraits of him :hmmm: . Anyway, I second both suggestions

  20. #60

    Default Re: historical portraits for 58BC





    Here's Ambiorix..... Not historical though but a quiet a heroic recreation according to the Belgians.... atleast there's a reference....

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