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Thread: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

  1. #1
    Silesian_Noble's Avatar Chugen
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    Default Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Yeap, you heard it right! Poland had some input into Balkan medieval history.

    First of all I very regret that the map does not include Polish lands, as this Mod has great perspective and I would love to play Poland in it.

    Though Poland will not be a faction, it still should be represented. I’ll give you suitable historic information to prove my words and some proposals how to include some Polish accents into the campaign.

    First of all Moldavia – it is definitely on your map. I’m a bit surprised that it is not presented as a separate faction, though I think it should. Well Moldova was Polish vassal in years 1387-1489. So there could be available some Polish units as mercenaries and regionals on this land. Also some chronicles stated, that a contingent of probably few hundred Moldavian Nobles supported Poland in the famous battle of Grunwald/Tanneberg in 1410 – maybe represent it as an event (similar to the one from Britannia when English King left isles for crusade)?

    In 1497y (when Moldova was independent) a massive Polish invasion on Moldavian lands happened. It failed because of some bad decisions of the commander, but it could go different way… I think this is really worth representing! That would be a very attractive event that would speed the action and flavor the gameplay!

    Another issue is Polish-Hungarian friendship with its peak in years 1440-1444, when Polish King was crowned as Hungarian King as well. When it happened, Polish King with 2000 of Polish Royal Knights (may call them Polish Guard) move to Hungarian capital. Later those knights took part in the wars with Turkey (1443-1444) that ended with the famous battle of Warna (unfortunately lost, though the victory was so close…).

    Poland strengthens Hungarian forces a bit. First of all mentioned before contingent of 2000 Polish Royal Knights – the chronicles stated, that their marvelous equipment astonished Hungarian folk seeing them marching. They proved great effectiveness on the battlefield against Turkey. Also the chronicles mentioned great courage and effectiveness of dismounted Polish Royal Knights while storming Turkey castles. Maybe represent Polish Guards (also dismounted) as a unit available for Hungary from 1440y from court building? Or maybe script Polish contingent under Hungarian command as an event?

    Another important issue is the Polish Nobles (Knights) that travel to Hungary for the holy war against Turkey. They were hosted by Hungarian Kings and took part in Hungarian-Turkey wars. The most prominent example is the Zawisza Czarny – most famous Polish Knight, stated as the best knight of his time in Europe (he won all the tournaments and also took part in famous battle of Grunwald/Tannenberg where he smashed a bunch of Teutonic knights) who was a constant guest on Hungarian court. He died on the battlefield after refusing evacuation when the situation turned to catastrophe during the battle of Golubac in 1428. So maybe make for Hungary available the recruitment of Polish Noble Guests/Crusades? Or maybe scripts the military contingents? Or maybe show them as typical other crusades – available in time of crusade?

    I almost forgot. Poland also took part in Hungarian home war but I would have to first make a deeper research to state any specific info.

    What guys do you think?
    Last edited by Silesian_Noble; March 04, 2008 at 03:24 PM.

  2. #2
    The_Bulgar_Slayer's Avatar Ishiyumi no shashu
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    I like your enthusiasm! To address some of your concerns and ideas: first of all, Moldova IS a faction in the game. Second, I'm sure we will have some Polish units available, at the very least as mercenaries, and maybe even as a regular unit or two for Moldova to help differentiate them more from Wallacia. Polish units will also be important if we do some historical battles, especially Varna. So, you don't have to worry, Poland will definitely be represented in some way in the game.

    Official Byzantine Historian for Tzardoms:Total War

  3. #3
    Silesian_Noble's Avatar Chugen
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Bulgar_Slayer View Post
    I like your enthusiasm! To address some of your concerns and ideas: first of all, Moldova IS a faction in the game. Second, I'm sure we will have some Polish units available, at the very least as mercenaries, and maybe even as a regular unit or two for Moldova to help differentiate them more from Wallacia. Polish units will also be important if we do some historical battles, especially Varna. So, you don't have to worry, Poland will definitely be represented in some way in the game.
    I'm very glad then!

    Some more information.

    A bit more information about Polish participation in Balkan history in the first half of XVc.

    In 1426 both Polish and Hungarian kings planned common expedition against Turkey. Poland fulfill its obligation and gathered near Braila in Moldavia (its own vassal) an army of 5.000 professional soldiers of decent equipment under Janusz Kobylanski command. Polish army waited two months for Hungarian ally, but Hungarian king was busy with hussite affairs and did not show up.

    The civil war in Hungary 1440-1443 was a consequence of some rebelian Magyar Nobles that did not accepted Polish King on Hungarian throne. The first Polish contingent moved to Hungary together with Polish King in 1440y – 2000 Royal Knights. These forces were supported constantly by soldiers sent from Poland. Most significant supplies are dated:
    - January 1441: strong contingent of 5.000 soldiers of decent equipment sent from Polish province – Lesser Poland (capital in Krakow; this army smashed Magyar rebels in western and southern part of Hungary).
    - Autumn 1441 – contingent of Polish Noble Knights from Polish province of Greater Poland (capital in Poznan)
    - November 1441 – large contingent of soldiers from Lesser Poland and Halyh Russia (which was part of Polish Kingdom from about 1350y)


    P.S. I may search for more information from other periods, as Polish-Hungarian friendship had long history
    Last edited by Silesian_Noble; March 04, 2008 at 05:55 PM.

  4. #4
    Sarmatian's Avatar Horse Archer
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Well, the problem is that we hit the faction slot limit. There is a couple of factions, Poland being one, that deserve a slot, but unfortunately, there is a limited number of faction slot...

    So, Poland will have be represented with some units, but not as a separate faction unfortunately...


  5. #5
    Silesian_Noble's Avatar Chugen
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Well, the problem is that we hit the faction slot limit. There is a couple of factions, Poland being one, that deserve a slot, but unfortunately, there is a limited number of faction slot...

    So, Poland will have be represented with some units, but not as a separate faction unfortunately...
    Well I'm sad that it was Poland that had to be sacrificed


    About Polish invasion on Moldova in 1497: the number of Polish forces was approximately 60.000 plus another 30.000 of servants. That could make a huge turmoil in the game

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_..._Cosmin_Forest

  6. #6
    Sarmatian's Avatar Horse Archer
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    It wasn't really sacrificed. We started with a smaller faction list amd we added factions along the road. In the end it was decided that Anatolia and Italy was more importand for the area in the timeframe then Poland. Also we wanted to give it a go with smaller factions which are rarely represented in mods, but are very distinctive and interesting, like Knights of St. John or Karamanid Emirate... Poland is present in almost all mods at least...

    And also, somehow it doesn't feel right having Poland without Teutons, Lithuania, HRE, Russia and that is well out of the scope of the mod... It's just not Poland without them. It's like having Byzantium in the late middle ages without Ottomans, Venice, Serbia, Genoa, Bulgaria...


  7. #7
    Silesian_Noble's Avatar Chugen
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    I know you are right It’s just that I’m Polish and sentimental plus I found your concept extremely interesting so I would love to see my fatherland in the game, especially that Poland was a political player in Balkan region. Just to makes things clear – I feel absolutely no harm to you for not including Poland as a faction Though I will look for Polish accents in the campaign and I’m already ready to support you with suitable knowledge when it comes to events related with Poland or most likely Polish units, as those from original medieval2 give many reasons to complain

  8. #8
    Shuei
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    I know you are right It’s just that I’m Polish and sentimental plus I found your concept extremely interesting so I would love to see my fatherland in the game, especially that Poland was a political player in Balkan region. Just to makes things clear – I feel absolutely no harm to you for not including Poland as a faction Though I will look for Polish accents in the campaign and I’m already ready to support you with suitable knowledge when it comes to events related with Poland or most likely Polish units, as those from original medieval2 give many reasons to complain
    Inspiring post
    Last edited by Son of Mao; March 05, 2008 at 10:30 PM.

  9. #9
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Barackolypse Now
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Now now dont bash the guy for being proud of his country. That kind of crap belongs in another forum.

  10. #10
    Sarmatian's Avatar Horse Archer
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Exactly. There is a fine line between nationalism and patriotism...


  11. #11
    Sarmatian's Avatar Horse Archer
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    I know you are right It’s just that I’m Polish and sentimental plus I found your concept extremely interesting so I would love to see my fatherland in the game, especially that Poland was a political player in Balkan region. Just to makes things clear – I feel absolutely no harm to you for not including Poland as a faction Though I will look for Polish accents in the campaign and I’m already ready to support you with suitable knowledge when it comes to events related with Poland or most likely Polish units, as those from original medieval2 give many reasons to complain
    We'll probably take you up on that offer when we start doing mercenaries and regional units...


  12. #12
    Silesian_Noble's Avatar Chugen
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobolight View Post
    nationalism
    Such accusation is piteous, admins should react in cases like that and eliminate such negative statements which only consequence is spaming a good thread and spoiling constructive discussion.

    I will always take the opportunity to promote my country via presenting historical facts as western knowledge about Poland is set on low level. I can see no negative side of posting constructive statements filled with historical facts. This has absolutely nothing in common with nationalism which is bounded with discrimination of other countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    We'll probably take you up on that offer when we start doing mercenaries and regional units...
    I’m very happy to meet such friendly attitude and will be honored to donate some good knowledge to the Tsardoms Project

  13. #13
    Shashu
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobolight View Post
    nationalism
    Hardly!!

    I found the OP's posts very informative and interesting. Certainly anything but a nationalistic rant.

    @ Silesian_Noble.

    Poland are already very well represented in MIITW. Though of course I understand that everyone likes to see their country in the game! I always like it though when mods introduce new factions which are not widely available in other mods as has been done here.

  14. #14
    nnnm's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!


  15. #15
    Silesian_Noble's Avatar Chugen
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    I think polish heavy hussar is far to late (second half of XVIc) and doesn’t suit Tsardsoms timeframe. In medieval period (to be precise from about second half of XVc) Poland had light Balkan Hussars in service (which were often emigrants that preferred to leave own kingdom then live under Muslim rule) that looked more or less like the unit from vanilla. I may later post some pictures from Polish Historic sources if I’m requested.

  16. #16
    nnnm's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    too bad . it just 1 century

  17. #17
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Barackolypse Now
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    Such accusation is piteous, admins should react in cases like that and eliminate such negative statements which only consequence is spaming a good thread and spoiling constructive discussion.
    I thought a friendly note not to make those kinds of comments was far more productive than having Sarmatian remove the post and having someone issue him a Note. We dont need to be starting fights inside our little mod board here. Its over, lets drop it and move on.


    I’m very happy to meet such friendly attitude and will be honored to donate some good knowledge to the Tsardoms Project
    We would be glad to have knowledge, some of us dont have any

  18. #18
    Romano-Dacis's Avatar Robespierre v2.0
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Imagine how I feel when I see mods which could have some Romanian faction but doesn't.

    "Not important" pfff, everything's a matter of perspective....

  19. #19
    Sarmatian's Avatar Horse Archer
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    Don't worry, guys, Tobolight is an old supporter of Tsardoms (one of the first actually). I'm sure it was just a case of him misunderstanding the OP's intention. So let's put this thread to some constructive use, like discussing which Polish units could be used as mercenaries or regional units, and getting some info about them...


  20. #20
    Silesian_Noble's Avatar Chugen
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Poland in Tsardoms!

    I will try to prepare for you just a few examples of units that could be available in/for Hungary and Moldova maybe even today

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