Macedon?

[GeneralChaos]

Hey guys, nice forum

I've just started venturing into multiplayer. So far, I've got my share of wins and embarrassing defeats, but Macedon, the faction I've been trying to learn, seems to come up short, especially against Rome.

Everything works up until Praetorian cavalry comes into play. I'll have my pikes working on the enemy infantry, archers or peltasts or whatever combination I've been messing with will be working, but then the cavalry wipes out my Companions (upgraded/ outnumbering, doesn't seem to matter) and surrounds my pikes (which is what I try to do to them).

So am I playing Macedon correctly? I tried a game as Seleucids and had no problems winning, but I'd like to figure out my mistakes rather than just switching factions.

Oh, and thanks for reading a post that started as a 3 word sentence.

[general nuisance]

First off welcome to multiplayer
I am sure better people than me will reply to you, but what money are you playing for ?
In multiplayer anything over 25,000 denari and Rome really does rule but it is good that you want to get your head around a faction like Macedon first, but try hosting a few games yourself and lower the money to 10,000 which should help make Macedon more competitive
Another thing to check is upgrades, Or to keep your companions close to your phallanx etc as they eat cavalry if attacking from the front

I expect Prince of Macedon will reply to you as he is a bit of a Macedon fan (that's a surprise with that name)
just keep trying and have fun and if you need any help or just fancy a few games pm me (personnal message)

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Or otherwise, consider keeping your pikemen in a sort of upside down v shape with one unit in between the two diagonal sides. This blocks frontal and side attacks from cavalry. Then keep one or two units of you cavalry inside the v-shape, easy to turn around if you're getting smashed in the back by their cavalry. I know it's a bit like a noob circle, but I think there's more flexibility than that.
Otherwise, just wait till the Praetorians get stuck in your pikes, then bring your Companions back around and smash into them.

[Selifator]

http://www.youtube.com/princeofmacedon
This is a link to all sorts of replays by Prince, he uses Macedon a lot so I think there will be replays with them. Maybe you can get some ideas from this.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Hey guys, nice forum

So am I playing Macedon correctly? I tried a game as Seleucids and had no problems winning, but I'd like to figure out my mistakes rather than just switching factions.

Welcome to the forum, General! Glad to see another Macedon-lover.

I just want to say that the mistake isn't yours: it's the game designers. They really fouled up with Macedon's units.

That said, fighting Rome toe-to-toe means you'll always be one-toe shorter than them (unless you use chariot archers which I think are completely fair against Roman units). Macedon's outclassed by Rome significantly: Macedonian infantry is less maneuverable than Roman infantry. Not only is Macedonian infantry more cumbersome, but they're also weaker too. In fact, Macedonian cavalry is also significantly weaker than Rome's (as you observed).

The first things you want to do when fighting Romans online are:
1) upgrade your troops (that'll give you near-equality against a Roman who doesn't use upgrade)
2) you need experience (which will take you some time if you're new)
3) you need to accept the fact that the Romans have a far superior array of troops available to them
4) you can't care whether you win or lose against the Romans (this will enable you to fight with creativity & without fear)
5) Fight at low denarii because this will limit Rome's superiority over Macedon (10,000 - 12,500 denarii). I stick with 10,000.

If you love Macedon, but simply want to fight Romans on equal footing, then I suggest you switch to the Seleucids (who are Macedonians themselves). The Seleucids have inferior infantry, but their Cataphracts make up for this inferiority quite well. If you use Cataphracts, don't forget to switch to the mace-attack after the initial charge.

But if you love Macedon, then stick with Macedon. Don't get flustered when you lose to a Roman. Just keep in mind that the Seleucids are basically the same as Macedon, but with far superior cavalry.

[HeroSK]

Here is my tactic macedon vs roman..;

Try to take 2 units of cavalry for both sides, and try to have 1 extra pikemen for protecting both cavalry side. Always try to place your cavalry close to your pikemen.

I always took 5 archers, and place them just in front of pikes and make their skirmish mod off. Romans throw their pila to archers... so this saves some of pikes...

For cavalry, alone macedonian cavalry cannot stand aganist roman cavalry. I always bring my extra pikemen to fight aganist roman cavalry and withdraw behind of pikemen...

[GeneralChaos]

Thanks for all the great replies everyone.

general nuisance- You're absolutely right about the 10k games. I didn't pay too much attention to the denarii limit when I first started playing, but the more I play the more I prefer lower money over the million denarii 2v2s.

xavier- I was hesitant about that because the pikes quickly get overwhelmed. I want to give that a try that against Egypt, because having to advance across the field is when the chariots show up and that inverted V seems worth a shot.

Selifator and Prince- Those videos are a great idea. I've only watched 1 or 2 but that gave me the idea to mess around more with light cavalry than heavy.

Herosk- I love fire-at-will mode. Once my archers or peltasts or whatever run out of ammo they're great for that.

Thanks for all the help guys. Once I'm steady on my feet I'd like to try one of the more informal tournaments so I'm sure I'll see people around sooner or later.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Thanks for all the great replies everyone.

Selifator and Prince- Those videos are a great idea. I've only watched 1 or 2 but that gave me the idea to mess around more with light cavalry than heavy.

Well, keep in mind that in all of my commentary videos, I'm screwing around.

That's why you see me using less-than-optimal armies. So if you're just trying to win, then you might want to play more conventionally. For example, if you're Roman, you shouldn't be using Pre-Marius armies nor should you be using armies of Early Legionary Cohorts/Roman Cavalry.

The only reason I used Equites was because I was trying to stay historically-accurate to the Pre-Marius theme. But people online are ruthless and will field Urbans/Praetorian Cav/Roman Archers against you regardless of what your army looks like.

Thanks for all the help guys. Once I'm steady on my feet I'd like to try one of the more informal tournaments so I'm sure I'll see people around sooner or later.

If you really have an interest in these tourneys, then don't wait to get "steady on [your] feet." I host these tournaments for forumers of all skill levels. When I first started playing online, I had about 2 hours of experience playing Rome: Total War. Not 2 years, not 2 months, not 2 days...2 hours. That's 2 hours playing after opening my Total War box. I was still learning what the units were, how to move my camera, how to move troops around, etc.

The tournaments are here because they're fun for us forumers to interact in, and they provide us with good, fun practice against familiar faces. Do you really want to miss all of these practice events because you think you need to practice before you can practice with us? It seems redundant.

[piranha45]

I started my first tourny here when I only had about 5 games under my belt. I did OK in the first tourny because I opted for cheezy uber armies. I got utterly plastered in this last tourny though (0-5 win-loss), and I still only have about 30 games' worth of experience.

Don't let lack of experience dissuade you; we're playing for fun.

[Eccentric]

Yep, I got pwned, on mp all the time when I started playing, I still do.

[GeneralChaos]

Nah, I'll definitely join in the next one I see. I'll bring the flaming pigs

By the way, I'm grasshopper of doom, for anyone thats up for a game.

[general nuisance]

Good man
My biggest mistake was that I waited far too long before joining the tourneys, it's an excellent place to get some serious experience and you will be surprised how much you can learn and what a good bunch of guys they are

[Xavier Dragnesi]

All this talk of how good the tourneys are making me feel sad that I can't join...

[_TubbZ_]

i do find at 10k level macedon has one of the best selection of units and can rival rome with its cheaper units if the player upgrades correctly...

but pfft wat do i know :S

[Selifator]

i do find at 10k level macedon has one of the best selection of units and can rival rome with its cheaper units if the player upgrades correctly...

but pfft wat do i know :S

Like, a lot? :hmmm:

[Prince_of_Macedon]

i do find at 10k level macedon has one of the best selection of units and can rival rome with its cheaper units if the player upgrades correctly...

but pfft wat do i know :S

Although I win a huge majority of Macedon-Rome battles at 10k, there really isn't a Macedonian response to Roman quality. A Macedonian can beat a non-experienced Roman player with little trouble, but against a seasoned Roman player, the Macedonian has to play like a god (and hope that luck is on his side).

If I were to pick an Urban/Praetorian/archer army against a Macedonian player, I'd never lose. As a Roman in charge of such an elite combo, I wouldn't even need to concentrate. I could divide my attention on the game and on watching television.

[_TubbZ_]

Although I win a huge majority of Macedon-Rome battles at 10k, there really isn't a Macedonian response to Roman quality. A Macedonian can beat a non-experienced Roman player with little trouble, but against a seasoned Roman player, the Macedonian has to play like a god (and hope that luck is on his side).

If I were to pick an Urban/Praetorian/archer army against a Macedonian player, I'd never lose. As a Roman in charge of such an elite combo, I wouldn't even need to concentrate. I could divide my attention on the game and on watching television.

err you gave my rome a good spanking tho, i guess it was the early legionary cohorts but rome is expensive still if you ever play any Clan rome v rome's at 12,5k the chances are there will be very little infantry on the field. I even have an army with no rome infantry at all and one hell of a lot of cav and archers

[Prince_of_Macedon]

err you gave my rome a good spanking tho, i guess it was the early legionary cohorts but rome is expensive still

Keep in mind that I should've lost that battle. If my cavalry didn't rally back, it would've been "bye-bye" Macedonians. There's luck, and then there's luck

if you ever play any Clan rome v rome's at 12,5k the chances are there will be very little infantry on the field. I even have an army with no rome infantry at all and one hell of a lot of cav and archers

Not sure if you followed the results of the 4 Minnows Tourney last year, but I won it using a Germanic cavalry/archer army (no heavy infantry). Here's me in the Final with my Germans.

I practiced for several days tweaking my German cavalry/archer army. I used this setup against several clan-folks who, I guess, weren't accustomed to its asymmetry at the time. I've recently seen some clan-members using a Roman variation of it. But even more recently, I saw the most effective variation of this with Selifator & his Scythians.

[_TubbZ_]

aah yeah it has become too popular to ignore infantry as if you use everything else well its not really needed, plus i have a gothic cav, archers, skirmisher army, but they always run our of ammo. Germs need archer warbands as does gaul....

[Selifator]

Well, with the Scythians you don't really have an option. The only infantry they have is axemen, and peasants but those don't really count. And when I noticed that my HA armies lacked sufficient arrows, archers were the natural choice. Not really any other reason for using this setup.