PRO DEO ET REGE 1.0 QUESTIONS & SUGGESTIONS

[Socal_infidel]

This post made my day yesterday. It's only fitting I address it fully

SoCal - Where to begin?

I've been playing PDER since its first generally playable beta release, and have never looked back since.

Yes, I've played all the mods, LTC, SS, all that. Nothing compares. Now, I had previously written a lengthier letter of praise and adulation, but the bugs built into these Forums rendered my post 'disappeared' after I hi 'submit reply'.

Alas, here I go at it again. This time i have copied this to ensure its not lost.

SoCal - thank you many countless times for your hard work. I don't even want to think of the malpractice liability, or problems you may incur with your employer or the state bar, that your tremendous work and dedication to our mutual hobby may have opened you up to. I'm not even going to speak to the strain this has had on your relationships with real life loved ones. I know she tells you all the time that you care about this game and what absolute total strangers think more than you care about her. Thank GOD for loading screens and loading times! That's one good reason NOT to get a faster CPU!!!

At first I was scared, like how does VanguardXIII know so much about me? Is this my girlfriend's account here at TWC to check up on me?

Then I realized I have a big mouth and have disclosed all this stuff here!

I am triply ticked off at SEGA/CA for rushing to release an unfinished game, that on top of that, was aimed a demographic of gamers which doesn't nearly reflect the actual demographic that really plays and buys the game.

It hurts me that they rely on exploiting the good will and interest of the 'hardcore gamers' to actually re-create the game, and make it playable. I want half of my $40 sent to SoCal.

Don't do that! Then I'll really get sued by CA. Don't want that.

Mr. SoCal, i hope everyone on this forum can understand all that you've done for us. Because of you, there are no boring nights of watching Steel Magnolias, You've Got Mail, Sleepless in Seattle, or French Kiss with my girlfriend.

Maybe that should be the subtitle of my mod, PRO DEO ET REGE: Bane of Chick Flix

Instead, I am deeply involved in a broader campaign of Cilician Armos (Hye!) to reconquer their lost lands near Georgia, and Greater Anatolia and the Levant to boot. With every intriguing development, I turn to my 'on the couch' GF, and wink and nod! "Baby, the Byzies stabbed me in the back!"

I know all about the GF being on the couch while playing/modding. I'm actually in the office adjacent to the living and have learned to communicate exclusively during battle loading screens. Or when I need to think about which battle to enter first. Take on the Georgians to the North first? Or deal with that pesky Egyptian besieging force at Cairo?:hmmm:

Three Cheers to SoCal!

Some suggestions:

1. My vote (if i had one) is that the whole game be rendered in RealCombat stats, with no complicated option or patch so to speak, so that experience and armour upgrades actually mean something. That should just be how the game is!

It actually does use RC/RR already. I've tried my best to balance the new units to it. But as they're 50 new units for the new factions (and some for everyone else), I might have made a few mistakes here and there. I know I did with the Turkomans secondary axe weapon (too powerful).

I tweaked costs and recruitment times in ways I felt best worked with the PDER-style of recruitment.

But like anything, I'm always open to feedback!

2. I also loved that, at least in the first half of the game with RC, archers with those nice big swords can actually do more damage than my GF's acrylic nails. Seriously! I guess this is the same as suggestion one, resolved in RealCombat stats. There's also the stamina and morale which prolongs battles, making them realistically longer and decisive. Indeed, If i want quick battles, I'll play on 6x

Same as above, I did use RR/RC (at least the latest changes prior to my release). I know Point Blank is constantly refining it. Will incorporate any changes in next update.

And personally, I am finding the battles on the Egyptian sands to be quite enjoyable. I like to send my 4 units of Turcopoles to engage the front of the enemy's main line while my Askaris and Seljuq HA's flank the side and rain down death on the Fatimids!

I also have to say, I have been noticing a nice balance in the enemy's forces. Right now I am working with Xeryx on customising his XAI to PDER and the Georgians have teched up Kutatisi and are actually throwing Monaspas into battle against me. Which I have never seen before. usually they just throw a bunch of spearmen (Shubosani and Kartlians) along with Kypchak HAs.

Makes victories eminently more rewarding knowing you just pawned a bunch of Monaspa Swordsmen and Eristavis.

3. Is there any chance you can modify the blood mod so that there's a bit more blood? I'm aware that there are other mods that address this separately, and have played blood bath style previously. I'm recommending here, again, that this really not be an option, but really just built into the game. In the interest of user-friendliness and playability (and theoretical compatibility issues), lets have all add-ons be final and built in.

Playing RTW: XGM (Xtreme Greek Mod), there was an option at download to include or exclude certain features. Can this be arranged for battle blood, skies, and RC?

I'm tending towards a more unified and consistent mod with less add-on options, but I think with certain things, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" - i.e. some people hate too much blood., some people's systems can't handle Real Arrow. Those types of things.

And probably AIs too, some people just have different tastes. But unit stats and recruitment and things like that will definitely be only one option. Editing the EDU is just too darn hard

Anyhow, as far as my own skillz, all I'm really capable of us basic newbie stuff like changing stats, etc. I would love to help review and beta test and fix any RC stats that we can get going for this mod.

4a. Playing on VH, VH - campaign mode is not much of a challenge. Can you tweak the number or size of stacks and/or the agressiveness of hostile armies by, say, 10-15% or so? I know that prior mods had received suggestions to soften this. Now we've gone too soft in the other direction. RC will will fix AI on battle mode, no?

I'm about to try out Battle AI files sent to me courtesy of Xeryx. Didn't have the time last night to try them out.

Will see how that fares. Am told it's quite good. And right now even those nicely balanced Fatimid armies stand no chance against my Seljuk HAs.

4b. Conversely, can diplomacy be tweaked so that, with the right price and trade package, like say in the 10k-20k plus range or similar homage, even factions with whom you have horrible relations can be brought to a non-agression pact/cease-fire?

4A and 4B will bring a special light and richness to the game which is otherwise lacking. Shame on CA/SEGA for making this stupid!

Am testing Xeryx's XAI in this regard. Will let you know how it fares.

5. As with a few prior beta releases of PDER, mines cost too much and give very very little. Its simply not worth building mines at any point. We need to increase the yield of mines. As is, it takes about an average of 60-100 turns just to recoup the cost of building it, and thats just at Level 1!!

yeah, I keep meaning to increase mine revenue. Will try to remember for once

6. Vanilla central west asian/byzie/anatolian archers (the grey ones, peasant archer and militia archers) seem to be on RC stats already! They seem way out of whack with the rest of the game, especially considering their costs to build and maintain. YES YES i know how to correct this myself, but if there's going to be a PDER 1.1 that addresses these things, what I assume is the purposes of Questions and Suggestions, then I hope we can fix this.

And when I say 'we', SoCal, i DON't mean you. I'm volunteering again. But the greek archers issue is easy to fix, even with my limited skills.

Again everything should be up to date with the latest RR/RC. The only thing I tweaked unit stats wise was their costs and recruitment times. And free upkeep abilities for some.

7. Merchants need to also be 'worth it' to build. That means that the resources need to give at least 100 florins to start with, for a guy with limited skills. Then at least he's earned his build cost withing 5-7 turns or so. We also need to lenghthen their life spans - an 'historically correct - playability consistent' way to do this would be to have that every merchant has a journeyman with him in his retenue who 'takes over' (We can imagine) when the merchant dies of old age. Same with spies and diplomats. Its just WAY TOO MUCH micro management, when you start taking over whole portions of the the-then known world, to not only move the guys around (which is all good) but then to have to worry about their age. Its enough to worry (which is all good) about them getting bought off or assassinated. ITS A SHAME that you build these guys up and they lose their traits to old age. Way too much on the micro there. Many times I'm trying to get THROUGH the 900 plus turns of the campaign map portion so long as my armies have moved and my to-build line-up is set. Still my campaigns are 3-4 months in real human hours, (which i love!) I dig, of course, that family members and generals age, and that's not the issue here.

8. Can you REDUCE the threshold of being able to buy off rebel armies? I get that we are at war - being at war should NOT be a factor in the diplomacy of BUYING the army off. That's the whole POINT of buying them off!! I've had 5k, 7k, 30k, 60k available to bribe an army of ANY size, and NOTHING works. Its a useless and frustrating, unrealistic feature, if it can't reasonably be utilized.

This is where you and I differ

The rebel armies are meant to be seen as minor factions. I've tried to make them all seem unique by giving them different flags for each culture and different rebel descriptions indicating they're not just Turkish Rebels anymore but the "Danishmandids" who held power around Melitine and Sivas around the mod's beginning.

You want their lands gonna have to fight for them, buddy

9. Armenia -

a. their first and only starting city can build way too many variety of troops, it seems, from the get go. They have all sorts of spearmen who are either byzzie, seljuk/turkic, or armo, but little other different besides appearance.

Spearmen were quite abundant during this time. But you're right there is a lot of variety. But I like to think each has a purpose. For example, the Anatolian Levy Spearmen suck, but at least if you have an unruly province that needs some order, they can be recruited in one-turn (as opposed to most everything else).

Militia also suck, but at least they're free to upkeep and can quell disorder in unruly towns.

The Cilcian Spearmen should form mainline of any Armo army.

And most factions begin with settlements that are decently teched up. The Armenians are gonna need those Cilician HAs and Aspets jav cavs if they're gonna take on the Turks.

b. Stats on Vanilla AoR byzzie dudes also seem off, too expensive for the stats, etc. Players should have to build for this, and then the differences should be more apparent. If the differences are in morale or other 'invisible' stats differences, visible only in descr-units or whatever, then the Unit Card or Unit Info (i forget which) ought to say so.

I'll look into this, mate

c. Fire-Ships, and a few other units (i'll post the names when they come to me), still don't have mini-pics, and the default picture is the peasant from RTW, as you know.

Yeah, I'm sure there are a few out there looking like a menacing little Roman street thug (which is what those Roman peasants look like to me, like if I was out at night in a Roman back-alley, that dude would hit me up for some dinarii.

10. The towers ought to shoot more, and stronger. I know there had been prior suggestions, (I religiously read the PDER forums when I get home from work - sort of like my transition from work life to playing the game. Reading these forums gets me jazzed up to play!) and these suggestions were that the walls not be as effective at defending. GIVEN that we have eliminated the inner walls of castles, and all, at least we need some more rapid fire from the wall towers. Please!? Yeah, I know how to tweak this myself, but this is only after a year of learning how to mod. I'm almost 30 years old, so the learning curve is slightly tweaked against me. I know that in all prior talks about user-friendliness, you have agreed in principle that this mod ought to be fully enjoyable for people with even less skillz than me.

I'll see what I can do. I know that I've experienced it before in the past that towers just pawn the poor battering rams and destroy them before they're half-way there.

Anyway - seems like a laundry list, but these are just suggestions that came to me as I played. I've been taking notes with pen and pad in hand while playing, and this is what I've got so far. I'll post as I continue to Beta-Test Cilician Armenia.

I realize that opinions are like @$$holes, everybody has one. None of my suggestions can take an ounce away from the fantastic work that's gone into this. I wouldn't even THINK of asking 'why' this or that turned out as it did in the 1.0/1.0a PDER release.

You are a one-man team, a one-man army - one we here in the Total War community are FOREVER INDEBTED TO!

Uh, wow. thanks

So I've made the following Fixes/Changes to the Game in Export Descr Unit:

This has been experimented with beautiful results. I also made tweaks to costs to balance. PM me and I'll email you my file! Its easy to do, but time consuming, especially with testing, etc.

1. Gave the following units the HORDE formation, not utilized in MTWII, but still possible because of being built of aspects of RTW: ALL peasants including peasant archers and others, kazaks, highland rable, peasant spear, woodsman, almughavars, viking raiders, battlefield assasins, zweihander, flagellants, pilgrims, religious fanatics, caucasian frontiersman, Transylvanian peasants.

2. Fixed militia and peasant archer stats, now: 3 arrow, 2 knife, 3 sword, 4 defense if knife, 3 defense if sword.

3. ALL General's Bodyguards for all Factions are BACK to 2 Hit Points. No more needless deaths of gens and fam on the field!

4. Created 'Super-Unit' for Armenia and Georgia!

Georgia: Monaspa Swordsmen now 2 HP, 4 turns to recruit, 4200 florins to recruit, 880 to upkeep.

Armenia: Dismounted Nakharars now 2 HP, 4 turns to recruit, 4190 to recruit, 980 to upkeep.

5. Doubled Artillery pieaces, increased number of men, doubled price and maintenance

6. Carroccio Standard and Similar: Now have 2 HP, doubled upkeep

7. Fixed Forlon Hope upkeep from 40 to 140 (Assumed it was an error)

Will work on other factions soon

really quickly as I actually have some RL work to do at the moment.

Didn't know there was a horde formation.

Sometimes generals and family members die needlessly. You chose to go to war buddy!

Thanks for pointing out the Forlorn Hope upkeep error.

Cheers! Thanks again for your continued support of PDER. It's post like these that make me happy. And erase bad memories of staying up until 1AM in the morning trying to upload the mod again only to realize you effed up the installer and forgot something.

Or spent hours editing the EDU and the game won't start up after your changes for reasons unknown. Or telling gigantus you've had it up to here with modding after an incredibly frustrating night of modding and you're of mind to not release the damn thing out of frustration.

So cheers! Since you're nearly 30 (sshhhh... I'm already there), have a drink for me next time!

Take care. Looking forward to additional feedback

S_I

[Socal_infidel]

So far in my campaign (which is going very well) all the crusades just go to Cairo and all the jihads are sent to retrieve it. It's changed hands about 3 or 4 times. Is there a way of getting the crusades to go for something else every so often?

Yeah, I hate that too. I want the first Crusade called on Jerusalem!!!

I did disable the jihad on Constantinople, though. As I always hated that one. And especially now that the Rum Turks are just the Bosphorus away from Contantinople, I don't want them taking it before 1100. Which is a big in my book

Something that has been bugging me for sometime on all M2TW games is the quote "let the boy win his spurs" by Edward III at the battle of Crecy in 1345. The battle was actually in 1346. I've just changed it.

Sorry I seem to be posting a lot. I should get a hobby.........

You do have a hobby - playing Medieval II Total War...mine is modding it

[Socal_infidel]

First, big cheers to your mod, as it is (together with dimitri_harkovs "hre") the best and most realistic mtw2 mod available. Despite from having still sound problems, i took a closer look in the factions. As the hre seems to be the faction with the most historical "glitches" (with all due respekt, oc ), some suggestions:

Okey-dokey, bring them on

names:

the names of the family members seem a bit random to me. would be better to give them the names of some dukes or counts around 1080. and perhaps you should adjust the namelist, as most names do not sound very "noble" (though im sure the average ca guy thinks "Ulrich Echter" has to be a decent german name as they didnt change it since mtw1).

They seem a bit random because they are a bit random.

If people offer suggestions, I'll gladly try to add the correct Noble in each settlement.

provinces/cities and titles:

in general (for all factions), titles should refer to the province, not the city,
so "duke of steiermark" instead of graz (lesser point).

- the title archduke of austria came in use very late in the ma, so it should be just duke (there is no actual duchy of austria before the 12th century, but imo that doesnt matter).
- the gouvernor of bavaria should have the title duke of bavaria, instead of franconia (dont mix up todays franconia) and perh regensburg would be a better city.
- for franken, mainz would be a better capital, and the govs title should be duke of franconia, as frankfurt got important later. also an "elector of frankfurt" did not exist.
- magdeburg should be the capital of brandenburg, and the gov "count of b." (better would be markgraf, just dont remember the english title atm). not 100% historical, but decent. could also be nordmark with brandenburg as capital.
- schleswig-holstein did also not exist in 1080, just rename it holstein and make the gov count of h. i would also advice hamburg as capital, and lübeck as part of an oborite rebel province (if you wish to create one).
-bremen should be made sachsen, with either keeping the capital or take münster, minden or goslar instead. title duke of saxony of course (and without the austrian coa). you should also reduce holstein and give saxony the land south of the elbe.
- staufen is not a really good choice as a capital. i would either take another city like augsburg, or make the city a castle and name it hohenstaufen.
- lorraine should be oberlothringen

All good suggestions. I will definitely look to them when I start getting PDER 2.0 - PART DEUX ready.

- you should give it a thought to take italy (at least bologna and florence) from the hre and give it 2 or 3 provinces of burgundy instead, as they were an integral part of the empire, and less rebellious (and we have to give the emperor some trouble in italy, dont we). i would also leave the switzerland be, as theres no such thing prior to the late ma. just rename it county of b., rektorat of b., hochburgund (many possibilities there) and make genf the capital. title of gov may be best reichsprotektor of b. or just count. would also be good to give it a common border with lyonaise by reducing bourgogne a bit.

Yeah some of those Burgundian provinces should definetly be part of the HRE, eh?

minor points:
- you should think about giving brabant to the empire. make the gov duke of brabant or of niederlothringen (both ok). if you leave it rebel, you should make the rebels part of the duchy of brabant, not of the comte de flandres.
- i would add the river oder at stettin, as without it eastern europe misses an important landmark.

Thanks again. One of the hard parts in developing a mod by yo'self is getting all the historical details correct. And like some people, I'm a stickler for these type of things. Like I had to go back and incorporate Almogaver's Aragon changes before I started a Seljuq campaign even those I was unlikely to ever butt heads with them in Iberia.

hope this turns out to be constructive, as your mod is on the way to become MTR, and that you get much more support in modding at this huge thing. As soon i get some sound to my pder, ill rename it MTR and enjoy it without mercy.

Hey you have sound now. Is it MTR yet? Someone else 'round these parts called it PDER De Facto Total Realism, which I liked.

edit: i just noticed that prince conrad of the hre is a gay; he just married a transvestite with name "Grede der Weisse"

There's nothing wrong that, mate! Let's judge him by how he fares as Emperor!

Cheers! Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated! And glad you have sound now!

[Emperor Basil]

Yeah, I hate that too. I want the first Crusade called on Jerusalem!!!

That would be great.

I did disable the jihad on Constantinople, though. As I always hated that one. And especially now that the Rum Turks are just the Bosphorus away from Contantinople, I don't want them taking it before 1100. Which is a big in my book

Glad to hear it. I don't take kindly to people attacking my capital out of the blue.
On that note, would it be possibly to have a trigger mechanism so Rome and Constantinople get added to the possible crusading targets if the Byzantines (or any Orthodox faction) captures Rome from the Papacy? I'm always disappointed when I take Rome and the homeless Papacy is happy to call a ceasefire. There aren't any repercussions. They should automatically call a crusade against Rome in which they have a the best chance of being successful (i.e. they should have the money and troops to create a crusading army very quickly). Sort of like a halfway house between M2 and M1 (M1 was a bit mad with the papal states returning every few years with huge armies).

You do have a hobby - playing Medieval II Total War...mine is modding it

Indeed it is. I love M2TW.

[Ahiga]

I have a bit of a loaded suggestion, it's related to the topic of "What factions would you want for the mod". I haven't had a chance to play PDER due to not having Kingdoms yet, so I may be mistaken in what I am suggesting.

One thing I noticed with the Mods focusing on Medieval Europe is that they did a great job on their newer factions, but sometimes the pre-existing ones were neglected. Now that's not out of any bias or intent - it's pretty imposing and less exciting to go back and 'fix' the Vanilla Factions, and it's that imposing nature that may stop a lot of mods from trying to do it. But I think the mistake may be in looking at those old factions as individual ones, much like a new faction would be added. That's not just too much work - It's unnecessary. As the Medieval Period went on you started to get similarities between regional nations, so that the armies of 14th century Poland didn't look remarkably different from 14th century France, to an extent.

So what I suggest is instead of looking at old factions as individuals, like you would a new addition, look at them as groups or genres of work. Instead of France, England, and so on, it'd be groups of factions based on a regional or cultural affiliation, where the dress and armor was similiar. You are essentially doing what CA did, but with greater detail.

Here's the basic concept, which you could expand or contract depending on the amount of work you'd want to do and how you'd fit it into your vision of PDER:

There would be x groups, each being treated like a new faction in terms of work. Besides Late Medieval, most groupings are references to 1000s-1200s AD dress/armor.

• Late Medieval: You only really need one for this I'd say. A French Knight wouldn't look too different from an English knight in the 100s year war. This is the one everyone shares for their plate clad knights and so forth.
• Norse: Scandinavia, Denmark, Anglo-Saxon England.
• Continental: The sort of generic mail clad look of early medieval Europe. France, the Holy Roman Empire, Italy, and the better armored troops of Spain would be used for this.
• Celtic: Scotland, Ireland, and Wales.
• Eastern European: Hungary, Poland, and Novgrod.
• Italian: could be part of Continental. I figure you could either go with Italian or Iberian for a final group, or both if you wanted.
  

Each of these groups would essentially be a "New Faction", yet instead of doing mesh work for just one faction, you'd be doing them for a 'bank', which your vanilla factions would pull from. Heraldry, colors, or small details would be changed on the texture based on the faction using it while the mesh would remain the same. Also, Factions would not be limited to what group they were used for Inspiration. To give you an idea of how this would work, let's take England for an Example. England would be a mixture of Norse, Continental, Celtic, and obviously Late Medieval.

Early England:
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba134.html

• Anglo-Norman Knights
• Dismounted Anglo-Norman Knights
  
• Armored Sergeants
  
• Anglo-Saxon Fyrds
• Welsh Longbowmen

And so on. Levies and low class soldiers might be Anglo-Saxon meshes, while the professional soldiers would be Continental, and you'd have a few Celtic ones included. But you wouldn't be making these meshes for exclusively England - You'd use the Fyrd meshes for the Danes and Norwegians, you'd use the Welsh meshes for the Irish/Scottish, while the Sicilians and maybe the French would use the Norman mesh, and most Europeans would utilize the Sergeants.


What I also suggest would be to make sure there are differences in the rosters of Vanilla Factions. Have England and the HRE be able to field lots of dismounted knights (With perhaps English ones being 1h sword and 2h polearms, while HRE are 1h maces and 2h swords), while France might have very few. Maybe one faction specific knight unit is based around numbers, while another is around quality. And I don't include the Turks, Moors, or Egyptians, but they'd benefit from some love too - Especially to make the Egyptians into the Fatimids, not some quasi-Mamluk army.

[Socal_infidel]

@Ahiga

Really nice post. I like me the detailed feedback.

I agree, the vanilla factions do need revisiting at some point. The problem's going to really become apparent as you have the new factions clashing with the old models which use either vanilla or Burrek's skins for the most part. I've already seen it playing the Seljuqs and starting off at war with the Fatimids. It's no fun slaughtering infantry and archers with my horsearchers when they all look so blah

I think my plan is similar to what you have in mind. Although maybe not a complete revamping of the models. But definitely revisit their units and do as you propose, create a pool of units that would all be the same essentially but for heraldry, slight colour differences and shield patterns. Because you're right, once you reach a certain point, a knight's a knight no matter where you find him more or less.

And I'll probably concentrate mostly on feudal units. Because, honestly, the age when we start to see armies become more professional and gunpowder introduced holds no interest to me.

If I had my druthers, I'd cut my mod off just as this era begins and concentrate and the early era.

But since it literally (as my GF can probably attest to) took pretty much all my free time the past five months to create the 50+ units (not to mention armour upgrades) for my new factions, I was going to wait until after at least my next release to address this. This for a couple of reasons. My next release shouldn't be too much work as I already did a bunch of Toulouse and Kypchak units already. So the main work should be text-related (hope hope). And I need some down-time to enjoy playing my mod.

I've been at this pretty much since last March or so working on the various incarnations of my mod and I've maybe played 100 years combined in all my various campaigns.

And I also want to see if the community produces anything that I might be able to incorporate into my mod to A] save me a lot of work and B] there are others out there far far far far more talented than I am (but in all fairness, I'm an attorney who had never used MS paint let alone MS3D or PS prior to five months ago). I know, for example, that dome and Csatadi of the Magyar Mod have a revamped Hungarian Roster planned and in development. There are Polish units being worked on. And Matko is working on Croatian units. I'd be foolish not to use these if it's possible to do so. Because who's going to do a better job on Hungarian units, a Hungarian with excellent 3D modelling skills or some schmo attorney in Brooklyn?

So long story short, yeah, vanilla units need addressing. I plan to do so. But only after the next release. As I've been far too involved in the graphical aspect of my mod and there are a bunch of other things (traits, scripts, buildings, etc) that I also want to do. But the good thing is, even though I go this pretty much alone, I have OCD or something and don't foresee stopping in the near future.

Cheers!

And yeah, I still haven't found time to start a BC campaign. Limited to custom battles pretty much.

[HannibalExMachina]

some suggestions on provinces/titles/names

Schwaben Duke Friedrich von Staufen
Sachsen Duke Magnus von Billungen
Bayern Duke Welf d'Este
Niederlothringen (Duke) Prince Konrad
Oberlothringen Duke Dietrich von Châtenois
Franken(capital: worms) difficult, as it had no real duke. I would advise to give the title to the emperor, and make worms the hre capital.
Ostmark
(instead of austria) Count Leopold von Babenberg (the Handsome)
Steiermark Count Ottokar von Traungau
Holstein Count Gottfried von Hamburg
Nordmark
(instaed of Sachsen/Brandenburg) Count Lothar von Stade
Burgund Count Wilhelm von Ivrea
Vienne
(instead of Lyonnaise) Count Humbert von Savoyen
Provence Count Gottfried von Arles

[Bah]

Hi! I've been lurking around these forums for awile now, but after trying PDER 1 I feelt I just had to post.

First of all, GREAT MOD, best M2TW mod I've played.
I'm ~50 years in as Venice and its been a blast, Figting both HRE and Byzans

I do however have a few suggestions (I don't know if they have been brought up before, I did a search but nothing showed up)

1, Venice and Genoa dont get any trade bonus from markets and port upgrades.

2, I know you use RC but the charge distance (5 for infantry) is to small. After the unit makes contact with the enemy they just keep charging and gets buthered by the non-charging enemy. I've changed it to 15 and it works much better.

3, After defeating Byzantine in Greece I've notice that I cant recruite any knights in those castles. I know its a feature in the AOR system but it still feels strange not beeing able to recruite knights from well integrated regions with 90% catholic inhabitants, especially as Venice.

Maybe you should include aor_greece in the feudal system or have recruitment tied to religon in a region, so when u converted enough people, say 85%, you can recruit knights.

Thanks again
Bah

[Ahiga]

Honestly, why don't you cut off the mod at a time period you see fit? It's your work and your vision, and I don't think many would complain at having the focus be on the 1000s-1300s. But yeah, I agree, this if ever done would be for far off in the future if at all - Not something to leap into, since you've been working non stop and need a break to enjoy what is a hobby, not a job.

Hopefully you'll enjoy the BC campaign. When I get kingdoms I'll try PDER out.

[Tony83]

Hehe - I hope you get to play BC soon Socal. You must have a go at the ERE and have a go with the Kontaratoi. Them's the boys I'd love to see in PDER.

[Socal_infidel]

some suggestions on provinces/titles/names

Schwaben Duke Friedrich von Staufen
Sachsen Duke Magnus von Billungen
Bayern Duke Welf d'Este
Niederlothringen (Duke) Prince Konrad
Oberlothringen Duke Dietrich von Châtenois
Franken(capital: worms) difficult, as it had no real duke. I would advise to give the title to the emperor, and make worms the hre capital.
Ostmark
(instead of austria) Count Leopold von Babenberg (the Handsome)
Steiermark Count Ottokar von Traungau
Holstein Count Gottfried von Hamburg
Nordmark
(instaed of Sachsen/Brandenburg) Count Lothar von Stade
Burgund Count Wilhelm von Ivrea
Vienne
(instead of Lyonnaise) Count Humbert von Savoyen
Provence Count Gottfried von Arles

These are awesome, mate! Thanks! I'll be sure to include you in the credits of next release

[Socal_infidel]

Hi! I've been lurking around these forums for awile now, but after trying PDER 1 I feelt I just had to post.

First of all, GREAT MOD, best M2TW mod I've played.
I'm ~50 years in as Venice and its been a blast, Figting both HRE and Byzans

Hey there Bah! Wow! I'm honoured that you're first post is to give feedback for my mod! Appreciate that!

I do however have a few suggestions (I don't know if they have been brought up before, I did a search but nothing showed up)

1, Venice and Genoa dont get any trade bonus from markets and port upgrades.

Hmm. I'll take a look. I'm sure it's just an oversight on my part

2, I know you use RC but the charge distance (5 for infantry) is to small. After the unit makes contact with the enemy they just keep charging and gets buthered by the non-charging enemy. I've changed it to 15 and it works much better.

I'll give it a try myself. Thanks!

3, After defeating Byzantine in Greece I've notice that I cant recruite any knights in those castles. I know its a feature in the AOR system but it still feels strange not beeing able to recruite knights from well integrated regions with 90% catholic inhabitants, especially as Venice.

Maybe you should include aor_greece in the feudal system or have recruitment tied to religon in a region, so when u converted enough people, say 85%, you can recruit knights.

Thanks again
Bah

I think what I'm leaning toward in the next release (v. 2.0) is allowing factions to recruit knights outside of the West provided they do two things:

1] Build a "Migration" type building to represent your actively trying to settle some of your peoples in a new land

2] A "Land Grant" building to show your setting aside land for your new nobility in these lands.

Working it all out still. Spent so much time on graphics for last release, didn't get to implement some of my building/tech tree ideas!

Thanks again for the feedback, mate! Nice first post!

Cheerio!

S_I

[Socal_infidel]

Honestly, why don't you cut off the mod at a time period you see fit? It's your work and your vision, and I don't think many would complain at having the focus be on the 1000s-1300s. But yeah, I agree, this if ever done would be for far off in the future if at all - Not something to leap into, since you've been working non stop and need a break to enjoy what is a hobby, not a job.

The thing about Modding OCD is I really just can't stop. Sometimes it's gets to be a bit too much. But there's just so much to 'fix'

Hopefully you'll enjoy the BC campaign. When I get kingdoms I'll try PDER out.

I think I'm a gonna wait for BC 1.1 before I launch a proper Kypchak or Khwarezm campaign...which will be released ( fill in the release date here, I'll keep it a secret)?

[Ahiga]

I know what you mean. I'm a total tweakmonkey and just love to tinker around. I mean, I'm so bored and frustrated because I currently can't tweak anything at the moment. As for release, I can't say or Mirage would break my thumbs, but I would hope it's not a month or two away. I'm with ya in the wait though - I'm holding off on any campaign until 1.1 comes out. Still haven't indulged in the Ghaznavids yet.

I took a glance at your Toulouse topic and liked how they looked. They do seem like an interesting faction, especially with Raymond of Toulouse off in the holy lands and the difference South France had in it's military. It's inaccurate, but if you want some unique qualities maybe you can pull from the Carolingians? They looked really cool.

[aarronpeake]

a good idea about helping nations get there own troops further away from there own lands is to make it so port towns slash cities can have a 'migration' building and couple that with a religon perchentage for there religion, then slowly allow them to have there units arrive in those port settlements as if the have been requested by the colines with much greater wait times per unit, then they get more available home nation units as they level up the 'migration building'.

[HannibalExMachina]

quick question here:

playing byzantium, one of my governors got elected "grandmaster of the Temple"
normal?

[AnthoniusII]

I agree with Ahiga for the norman style knights!
Use this...

And these

normans of south italy see the diferances in clothing



and italian millitia see the lance/axe a common weapon in italy those times

[AnthoniusII]

The metalic heraldy was a trade mark of italian/norman shields!

[Atman]

I have 2 basic suggestions and requests!

1) Decrease unit speeds just a little bit more for a more realistic feel.

2) Kingdom of Jerusalem. Since there are many new cool eastern factions, it's crying out for itself!

[Socal_infidel]

I have 2 basic suggestions and requests!

1) Decrease unit speeds just a little bit more for a more realistic feel.

In battle? Hmm. I'll look into it.

2) Kingdom of Jerusalem. Since there are many new cool eastern factions, it's crying out for itself!

Admittedly, I'm not really a fan of the Crusader States. And I'm pretty set on my start date. But, in case you didn't know, in the next release, we're adding the County of Toulouse whose leader Raymond St. Gilles was one of the leaders of the first crusade.

What I have in mind either formally giving them the option to give up their french possessions or encourage the players to relocate to the Holy Lands. Raymond by all accounts dreamed of establishing an "Oriental" Kingdom in the Holy Lands and swore to die there. And he did end up establishing the County of Tripoli after turning down the Jerusalem throne.

So I think they'll give the player a viable option to establish a Crusader state.