Unit cards in SS in 6.0

[Sher Khan]

Aye, the important thing being that the player can instantly recognize the unit from just a single glance.

[fieldmarshal]

I like the last one the best, and i ve done some tests and full body does loose a lot of quality even with adjusting lighting filters etc. I was also entertaining the idea of adding backgrounds to the unit cards, so i tried it myself as a experiment on Sher Khans unit. I just used the turk symbol as the background for this test.
And so far i have mixed feelings about background. Here are the two i did,

[nodey]

My opinion: probably the best way to go is from the waist up, since the resolution changes dramatically with the full body view, then the detail is lost. Moreover, the waist-up captures face, armour, weapon and shield. no need for lower body if it means sacrificing the detail.

Preview of some test screens i have done (Lithuanians)

Wow, those are amazing. Will they look anything like that ingame though?

[Sher Khan]

Here we have another question. What sort of background will we use for unit cards? So far I've been making ones with blank alpha channels for backgrounds, meaning the game loads the vanilla background for unit cards.

Akvilonn's (not sure if they're the final look) are straight screenshots in-game, and fieldmarshal's using a crescent moon background.



Thoughts?

[fieldmarshal]

Any sort of background should in no way draw any kind of attention away from the unit model. And the unit and the background should contrast so the unit is easily distinguishable and sharp. I really like the units in Akvilonn's cards, the sizes are just right, but the backgrounds are too generic and the unit don't fully stand out. I just used the faction symbol since it was the most obvious and easy to do time wise. I will continue to experiment with different background and give feed back on what i come up with.

[akvilonn]

To tell you honestly, using alpha channels for info cards would create following problems:

- the developer of the cards has to have all the source cards with the alpha channels to begin with
- immence task of getting those cards on-time, being time consuming and doing hundreds of units (in terms of editing, or cutting out the backgrounds etc)

- vanilla backgrounds might still be present, replacing the background would cause more time delays

Thus why not use CineED to compile all cards from waist up on the neutral background, which would look realistic and at the same time require far less work with the same or better quality results?

[fieldmarshal]

I am fine with the neutral vanilla background, it is just that since everything is being redone, unit cards, unit infos etc etc...its just a idea, i am just playing around with some backgrounds right now, nothing concrete..

[Sher Khan]

To tell you honestly, using alpha channels for info cards would create following problems:

- the developer of the cards has to have all the source cards with the alpha channels to begin with
- immence task of getting those cards on-time, being time consuming and doing hundreds of units (in terms of editing, or cutting out the backgrounds etc)

- vanilla backgrounds might still be present, replacing the background would cause more time delays

Thus why not use CineED to compile all cards from waist up on the neutral background, which would look realistic and at the same time require far less work with the same or better quality results?

Well, with CineED yes, it'd be time consuming, but I work with Milkshape and Photoshop for unit cards. This way, it's not taxing on my machine, and gives me total freedom to animate and pose the model anyway I want. And since it's on a plain blue screen, I can simply printscreen and delete the blue, and then creating an alpha channel under the unit before cropping it down to 48x64.

The only time consuming part is the Milkshape animating, and only if I need to do some creative posing. The alpha channels, the resizing, the background clean-up only takes maybe five minutes tops.

[Echad]

Well, I've got a few things to say:

First - please, no predefined backgrounds, I want it to keep them dynamic, and adding the background on alpha would be much faster than removing and cleaning, if you'd wish it later.

Second - I like some units to have the static positions, while some should use dynamic - in this, it should all depend on the artist, i.e. you. Be creative - I think you got no trouble with it so far. =)

Third - Having the bottom-less unit, even with bigger detail actually reduces the unit recognisability a lot... Remeber, that these are the generic unit representations, not some particular men's portraits, so the face should not be recognisable - the pose, the weapon and the suit should make it unique - for it, the unit must be shown in his natural position, but seeing your previews, we have nothing to worry, as you really catched all the feel... Nice! =)

Fourth - Try to keep consistent with proportions - do not try to make all of them cut-off at the same level, i.e. directly on waist/knees/feet line, BUT, try to make them look the same scale, example:

Regular unit/Polearm unit:



GOOD, uniform scale.

Regular unit/Polearm unit:



BAD, inconsistent scale.

Hope you got what I meant, if you didn't understand something - ask, I will try to describe it more correctly - it is usually hard to do without examples.

And PLEASE, do them in Milkshape, as half of the game's animations suck, it will be an extra job of clearing out background, AND the MOST important is the thing that most units share animations, so the poses won't be unique with cine_ed! =)

P.S. Some units can sit, or at least, have their knees bended a little, at least on any dyamic pose (no one fought with straight legs - that would be a suicide), SO, for example, if you keep the scale like in this pic:



...And use the same scale for all units, the ones in battle stance would be shown at full-height.

ALSO, remember about the cavalry - you should give previews to decide on them too.

P.P.S. The game supports some sort of anti-aliasing to reduce the jagged edges by gradient alpha in few pixels around the borders of the units, or at least in most pixelated ones.

[fieldmarshal]

In MTW-I the unit card didnt graphically represent the units on the field since the graphics were inferior, so they had to resort to art work for unit info and info cards. For some reason that added to the aura of the game, at least for me. So maybe in the future we could have some art work in the unit card and info slots. I know sher khan can draw so hint hint..

[Echad]

Well, we can just draw over the model, or, even simplier, add some filter on it. I can draw as well, but I'll stick to icons, at least until' I'll remake all of them for now! =)

[Dish.]

I like the last one the best, and i ve done some tests and full body does loose a lot of quality even with adjusting lighting filters etc. I was also entertaining the idea of adding backgrounds to the unit cards, so i tried it myself as a experiment on Sher Khans unit. I just used the turk symbol as the background for this test.
And so far i have mixed feelings about background. Here are the two i did,

maybe its just me but i think these with the backgrounds you made are ****ing great. the green/color shows up on the background and units though, right?

seems perfect as is (second one). pose and everything is tight. sorta looks like a turk super hero

[fieldmarshal]

@Dish.
The background is just the Turk Faction symbol, it just has a slight tint of green, i did not want to make it too green because i don't want the background to stand out.
If anyone is doing unit cards, i personally like backgrounds because if your just doing to a unit, then there is no point in changing out the vanilla ones.
I was also thinking as idea, we could do unit cards without using the unit model, but using a picture of that unit from real life. For example for a knight templar unit, instead of the unit itself being on the unit card, we could use a picture of the same unit from a art or a photo.
Here is a example of a templar;
Vanilla

w/o background

w/background

[DrunkNIrishMan]

Eh, I think the art is too low-quality to use for the unit cards, I'd prefer a realistic in-game shot.

[Turbo]

Just curiously what graphics program are you using for the unit cards? I know you can use GIMP for it.

[Echad]

Oh, I'd like to see some photos of Persian Immortals... Shame they died a few thousand years before the invention of photography. =(

[thelord]

hey im loving the examples guys, is anyone going to take on the task of doing the entire games cards? All the great mods have redone cards after all.

[Sher Khan]

Alright, after some talk with KK, here's the lowdown.


Denmark, Norway, Scotland, England, the Teutonic Order, all armored sergeants, (northern) spear militias, and mailed knights will be receiving new textures or models in some shape or fashion and to varying extents.


So, as long as we avoid these factions and units, unit cards we make now should be perfectly fine for SS 6.0's upcoming release.





And as for backgrounds... we can handle them later, I'm sure. Making unit cards use vanilla backgrounds simply involves giving the units a blank background that the game automatically replaces with its vanilla beige card.


So, if we start making cards without any background whatsoever, anyone can easily add in whatever background they want later.


So, since I've been seeing nothing but green the past few days, I plan on working on the Turks. If anyone wants to help out, It'd be best if we each pick a faction (make sure to avoid the above mentioned factions and also any of the armored sergeants/northern spear militia/mailed knights units).





Everyone, I've decided to use this unit scale. That is, from the knees to just above the head. It'd be nice if we could keep a consistent scale, and I think this is the best compromise between opposing views so far.

[Echad]

SO you followed my suggestions? Nice! I would like for the Sicilians to have the new unit cards, since they are of the wrong colour now, as well as Kievan Rus', Novgorod and Byzantine, as the first ones are rather blurry, and the latter are already reskinned. =)

[Sher Khan]

Turks ME Peasant Archers, Turkish Archers, Ottoman Infantry, and Janissary Archers in order.