Waterloo

[Tom Fulp]

I heard from my History teacher that Sir Arthur Wellesley at one point ordered his troops to "hit the deck" in order to gain a tactical advantage. Maybe if my force is outnumbered, I should be able to resort to cowering on the ground?

[Nik]

Lying to the ground was a time honored way to diminish the effect of artillery.
Prior to 1780, cannons could either fire solid round shot or cannister shot.
Cannister (or grape )shot was a sack of musket balls rammed into the barrel and devastating to infantry on short distances (max 300m). Round shot was the classical cannon ball, bouncing of the ground after impact and tearing of limps etc when hitting the lines of infantry (the movie "The Patriot" has some rather graphic depictions of round shot).
A newcommer of the napoleonic war was shrapnell, i.e. an exploding canister, making guns very effective against infantry to ranges up to 1 km.
Since the 15th century, infantry had used the lying down technique to weather artillery when waiting for the charge, so it wasn't an innovation of Wellington alone.
But Wellington was a master of skillfull positioning his troops on the reverse slopes of hills, lying down, in order to diminish the damage done by the superior french artillery.
And yeah, I think it should be an option, maybe with adverse moral effects (real men don't need to hide) and a certain timelag for the infantry to assume formation again.

[General_Vladimir]

Hey guys.

Heres an excerpt from miniseries that was on television:

Last battle of Napoleon which led him to his downfall. He was exhiled after this battle till his death in 1821. The footage is from the miniseries "Napoleon" 2002. Music: "Conquest of the paradise"
Note: the battle was fought on 18. Juni 1815 and not in April as the video shows

Indeed they used that tactics for a long long time. Some even used it since Roman times to avoid the huge arrows from the Ballistas. Somewhat arrogantly but they did it

But its good Waterloo was the last battle of Napoleon and as such is so famous in history; it even got an ABBA song!!!

Enjoy

[Juvenal]

During the Napoleonic wars, taking cover was generally considered to be a bad practice, unless you were skirmishing or defending a strong-point.

Men lying down can't fight. Muskets need to be loaded while standing up. At Waterloo, the famous example is of Maitland's Guards who had to stand up to receive the Middle Guard.

Men lying down or using cover can't be seen by their comrades. This lowers morale except in elite formations.

Command and control becomes much more difficult. A unit needed to be formed in order to move and for it to be safe to fire their weapons. After the first volley the battlefield would be shrouded in smoke - it was important to arrange your men so they didn't shoot each other.

A good example of this is fighting in villages. Many accounts of village fighting show that the attacker often had the advantage, leading to see-saw battles where each side took turns ejecting the other from the village (the fighting at Plancenoit was like this).

This effect is caused by the fact that the attacker has had time to form their troops. Formed troops can fire volleys - much more effective against enemy morale than individual fire. Also a formed body of men can all see each other, thus raising morale.

A stunning example of this effect is recorded during the American Civil War. Some of Braxton Bragg's Confederates investing Chatanooga were lined up along a wall at the top of a steep ridge overlooking the town (Missionary Ridge). The Union made a frontal attack up this hill and and successfully carried the line. This outcome was in part due to the fact that each Confederate could see the whole of the attacking force, but very few of his comrades, and Bragg has failed to position any reserve units in sight of the defenders.

During the age of the musket, the effective range of aimed fire was so short (excepting artilllery), that the morale benefits of standing together in formation often outweighed the disadvantage or presenting a greater target.

[Carl Edward]

Men lying down can't fight. Muskets need to be loaded while standing up. At Waterloo, the famous example is of Maitland's Guards who had to stand up to receive the Middle Guard.

Yupp but it should be noted here that hey received the first and second battalions of the 3rd Chasseur regiment of the Middle Guard. Not Grenadiers as most people thing. Volleys at close range could be very devastating, but as seen in this example firefights often lasted longer than in Hollywood movies and peoples imaginations. The I and II/3rd Chass. (who where deployed in a hollow square at the time) had already been pummeled by Bolton and Ramsay's batteries in the flank on their way in. After the II and III battalions of the 1st Guards had stood up and delivered their initial volleys there was a firefight that lasted (according to some, I'd say at least, pretty balanced sources) for some 10 minutes.

After awhile the chasseurs started wavering under the onslaught and the Guards charged down the slopes as the Chasseurs fled before them. However the 4th Chasseurs moved up and counter-attacked them which saw the Guards checked and routed.


I think it should be under stated that cover was vital and very important on the Napoleonic battlefield. Wellington used slopes for cover and probably saved a lot of his soldiers lives. It should be said that the Anglo-Allied army still took a bit of a mauling from the French artillery at Waterloo. Also one shouldn't underestimate how long firefights really where in these times. With even odds and good normal firefights could last a while. Although on the otherside there are several occations on which units broke just after a few salvos. Either intimidated by the volume of fire the enemy was putting out or something else.

The problem with stuff like the "Up Maitland and at them!"-myth is that many people think that it was a one volley and charge scenario. It wasn't bayonet charges where pretty rare and 98% of the wounds in battles of the time where done by something else than a bayonet. That said muskets where very inaccurate themselves and hence long musket duels. If it wasn't hard enough already the smoke produced from intense musketry made it even harder to hit the enemy. Most commanders of the time, and I believe most people nowadays (including myself) would not have done what Mel Gibson would have done. That is, order the charge into the smoke and the thundering enemy muskets.

Sincerely yours,

[KozCDVI]

I loved the clips from the 1970 film Waterloo. Wouldn't like to be in a Highland regiment when Wellington tells them to drop!

If CA play the uniqueness card, they are in for a longer haul as almost every unit was different for every different country, except perhaps mercenaries, such as the Swiss Pikemen.

For example, the hussars of Poland were different from the Russian Cossacks, the Scots Greys of U.K and the Curiassers of France.


[Did you know that Iceland has no armed forces? It relies on protection from the U.S.]

[ChaosLondon]

[Did you know that Iceland has no armed forces? It relies on protection from the U.S.]

I thought they relied on Bjork, pixies, and their biothermic banana-growing facilities.

Do they really need protection?

I agree with posters here that it's not best to be lying down as the enemy bear down on you, but it's certainly good practice to lie down when being shelled from afar - with a few rich dudes on horses keeping their eyes open, which I'm sure is what must have happened. (Admittedly tricky in the smoke).
As far as morale goes, I think I'd be happier lying on the ground, shoulder to shoulder in ranks, not getting a pasting from artillery. Even if the smoke's particularly thick, I can still see the guy to each side of me, and probably can count on less of them to be dead or pulped.

[KozCDVI]

Then again, if you are lying down taking cover from artillery, you are succeptable to infantry and cavalry as you would find it rather difficult to load a muzzle loading musket...

[ChaosLondon]

Hence duderoo on his horse keeping an eye/ear open for them. The thunder of nearby horse hooves, and the drums & "Vive L'Empereur" would probably be a good signal to stand up.
Just because you're lying down when they're a kilometer away, doesn't mean you should stay lying down till they're stomping on your head and trying stick you in the guts!

Would it be worth forming on the knee, with bayonets presented (like the front line of a square)...
That would probably be a half-decent idea, if the confusion, noise and smoke was so much that you couldn't hear when enemy cavalry or infantry was about, and it really is too confusing for a bunch of grown men to stand up at the same time.

[Carl Edward]

Actually when infantry was cought by cavalry in the open they would often throw themselves at the ground. Since horses are very reluctant to step on a person lying down and a sword often does not reach the ground the infantry would be quite safe. There are several recorded instances of Russian soldiers throwing themselves to the ground as they are attacked (not in formation though, mind you) only to raise up and shot the cavalryman in the back as he passed. When confronted by Uhlans however it would be a very different matter for the poor infantry .

[ChaosLondon]

Quite interesting.
I'm not sure if I'd fancy lying down though, what with all those horrible stompy hooves.

[Darsh]

[ChaosLondon]

Nice Darsh, but it'll all end in tears.

[DominusEtDeus]

Vive l'Empereur !

[Pellew]

British generals, at least, were reluctant to order their men to lie down. Part of it was the morale thing, it smacked of cowardice. But a large part was they simply didn't want the men to get their uniforms dirty. Uniforms were expensive and difficult to wash. To us that seems stupid, but it was a very real issue. Wellington was unique because he cared more about his men's health than if they looked pretty.