Faction - Principality of Moldavia

[Romano-Dacis]

I’m not sure for those two:
First of all Lithuania was not much active towards Moldova, Lithuanians did not interfere to Moldavians affairs like Poland, as they were busy with Tatars on own south boarder.

Secondary for most medieval period Tatars were major enemy for Moldova, so I can’t understand what is Tatar Horse archers doing in their roster.

The tatars will be scrapped, or at most be allowed as regional mercenaries. You're right, I was kind of carrying them over subconscieously from Wallachia.

The Lithuanian role however, was still pretty significant. A lot of the nobles in Moldova were of Lithuanian origin, which is why I thought it would be appropriate to have their own unit. Besides, the very close relation of Poland and Lithuania meant dealing with one was also dealing with the other. For instance, Alexander the Good married Ringala, the cousing of Wladislaw Jagello, but also the sister of the Duke of Lithuania.

We also can't exaggerate the level of Polish interaction in Moldavia in comparison to other states. Yes, there was significant interference. Yes, on quite a few occasions Moldavia founds itself as a vassal to the Polish king, but it's not as though vassality was uninterrupted. Peter Musat swore allegiance to the Polish king in 1387, but between him and the next person from whom we have another such document (Alexander the Good) came three other rulers in 13 years, one of which ruled for less than a year. I doubt all these people found the time, let alone the motive to become vassals. Another interesting thing is that Alexander the Good ascended to the throne in 1400, but only signalled his vassality four years later, so if anything, it indicates a discontinuity of about 20 years. After Alexander's death (1432) until Stephen the Great's ascension (1457) we have 9 rulers reigning on 17 different occasions, some of which were supported by Poland but others which obviously weren't, so the stability of Polish vassalship is... shaky at best?

That's not to say Polish influence was insignificant; in fact, it was significant enough that we're going to make a scripted event to try to simulate it! I'm just saying: let's keep things into perspective.

[Silesian_Noble]

Moldova was Polish vassal constantly from 1387 till 1489.

The vassality document was always written in a form, that obligated not only the Hospodar who sign it, but also his ancestors and all major Boyars swore the loyalty to Polish King. Moldova reject Polish protection in 1489 (though Polish King did not accept that fact) and came under Hungarian wings. Poland accept the lost of Moldova vassal circa 1536 I think. But during 1387-1489 every Moldavian Hospodar consider himself as a Polish vassal (even without signing separate act of vassality). Even if the Hospodar got the throne through military action supported by Hungarians or Wallachians, first thing that Moldavian new ruler did was sending a diplomat to Poland to confirm his loyalty. Why? Because Poland would not agree to lost such important area of own influence and would certainly take military action to bring it back.

I could give here more precise facts as examples, but maybe later, when I’m back home, where I can support myself with suitable book.

[Vict0r_1984]

I know. The lithuanian archers and hussars are polish units. I played MTW 2 as Poland cause it was the single faction without Hungary near the Romanian countries.
P.S: I wanted to defeat quick the hungarians from Bran and drive them out of Transilvania .
I think we can add also the early unit polish nobles, they were a kind of spearman cavalry, and if the vassality period beetween Moldavia and Poland was in this times, probably there was a little slavian colonization who had efects to the whole population.

[mircea]

the vassality period beetween Moldavia and Poland was in this times, probably there was a little slavian colonization who had efects to the whole population.

I don't think that we can speak about a real polish emigration in Moldavia, but, the effect of the Polish presence, on the boyars was surely important. So, I think that Moldavia should have Polish units in form of native units fighting like the Poles(esp. in case of Boyars); mercenaries (armed with crossbows and later fire weapons, )and Polish noble cavalry recruited from maybe a specila building.

[Vict0r_1984]

It wasn`t a big emigration, but I think it existed, cause in the medieval times the romanian countries adopted lots of slavian names in the royal families. A part of them can be from Poland.

[mircea]

Yes, there is a WIP list of Moldavian units. The ones where it says "same" are also a part of the Wallachian roster.
1) Razeşi – Spearmen, free peasant class
2) Lefegii – same, crossbowmen mercs
3) Boieri – same, heavy cavalry
4) Garda Domneasca – same, bodyguard cavalry
5) Roşiori – elite cavalry
6) Pedestrasi - archers, light armor
7) Plaiesi - Border guards, light armored but powerful late unit.
8) Călăraşi - same, light missile cavalry
9) Nemeşi – peasants turned into boyars for bravery in combat
10) Slujitorii Portarului – slightly different from Slujitori Armasului
11) Vânători din Neamt – powerful archers.
12) Vecini – same, peasants
13) Hânsari – lightly armed and armoured melee cavalry, based of hussars.
14) Curteni – same, light cavalry
15) Lithuanian nobles
16) Tatar horsearchers
17) Hussite war wagons
We'll also have some Polish units of course, but I haven't done a lot of research on that topic yet. There still is plenty of time to polish this roster, but better to get it out of the way sooner than later.

Nice list. I especialy like the Slujitori Portarului
Only a few suggestions.
Calarasi and Rosiori are from middle XVI century, and calarsi are profesional soldiers, while rosiori are, in fact the curteni. If you mention Calarasi you should also mention Dorobanti as profesional spearman infantry

Curteni should be medium cavalry armed with sword and bow as a secondary weapon, with viteji light spear cavalry.
As basic archers you could use the term sagetasii

Cheers

[Romano-Dacis]

Alright, thanks Mircea. I was having trouble finding a lot of sources on these guys. However, I do recall reading that calarasi were light missile cavalry at least from two different sources. I was planning on using this image as a basis for their design (of course, without the bucium ):


They will be complemented by the light melee cavalry called Curteni, which we will base off this design:


You seem very knowledgeable on this subject, so I was wondering of you would cross-check this, to see if it was ok.

I am especially interested if you have good graphical or descriptive sources for late-era military units, particularly dorobanti, or rosiori. If the rosiori are in fact just another light cavalry unit then we'll probably scrap them, given that we have both curteni and hansari.

[speedyvm]

The names for the Moldavian faction are partialy different from those in Wallachia. If, in Wallachia the names have mopr in common with the Bulgarian and Serb names, in Moldova, the names have a more Lithuanian-Polish resonance
A source for this is the list of rulers of Moldavia.
Dragos, c. 1351 - 1353
Sas (son of Dragos ), c. 1354 - c. 1358
Balc (son of Sas), 1359
Bogdan I, c. 1359 - 1365
Latcu (son of Bogdan), c. 1365 - c. 1374
Petru I (son of Musatei (Margareta), wife of Latcu), c.1374 - 1392
Roman I (son of Musatei) 1392 - March 1394
Stefan I (uncertain filiation) c. 1394 - 1399
Iuga Ologul (uncertain filiation) August 1399 - February 1400
Alexandru cel bun (son of Roman) February 1400 - January 1432
Ilias (son of Alexandru cel bun) January 1432 - November 1433
Stefan al II-lea (son of Alexandru cel bun) November 1433 - August 1435
Ilias si Stefan al II-lea (associated to ruling) August 1435 - December 1442
Stefan al II-lea December 1442 - April 1444
Stefan al II-lea and Petru al II-lea (associated to ruling) April 1444 - 1445
Stefan al II-lea 1445 - July 1447
Petru al II-lea and Roman al II-lea (asociati la domnie) July - September 1447
Roman al II-lea (son of Ilias) September 1447 - February 1448
Petru al II-lea February 1448 - March 1449
Ciubar (Csupor) Winter 1448 - 1449 (uncertain ruling)
Alexandrel (son of Ilias) February - October 1449
Bogdan al II-lea (son of Alexandru cel bun) October 1449 - October 1451
Petru Aron (son of Alexandru cel bun) October 1451 - February 1452
Alexandrel, February 1452 - 1454
Petru Aron, 1454 - February 1455
Alexandrel, February – May 1455
Petru Aron, May 1455 - April 1457
Stefan cel Mare (son of Bogdan al II-lea) 14 April 1457 - 2 July 1504
Bogdan al III-lea (cel "orb") (son of Stefan cel Mare) 2 July 1504 - April 1517
Stefanita (son of Bogdan al III-lea) April 1517 - January 1527
Petru Rares (son of Stefan cel Mare) January 1427 - September 1538
Stefan Lacusta (son of Stefan cel Mare) September 1538 - December 1540
Alexandru Cornea (son of Bogdan al III-lea) December 1540 - February 1541
Petru Rares February 1541 - September 1546
Ilias (son of Petru Rares) September 1546 - June 1551
Stefan (son of Petru Rares) June 1551 - September 1552

Sorry for the novel

Nice list, I think you should add a few of these name on rebel side, the reason would be that they fought between them a lot, even if they were from the same dinasty.

[Romano-Dacis]

Nice list, I think you should add a few of these name on rebel side, the reason would be that they fought between them a lot, even if they were from the same dinasty.

Every faction will have an exact duplicate "shadow" faction to represent contenders for the throne, usurpers, rebelling nobles etc. in order to have full implementation of civil wars, which were common throughout the Balkans at this time.

[Silesian_Noble]

My version of Moldova medieval genealogy based on Polish sources (which is very accurate, as most of documents related with medieval Moldova remain in Polish archives today):

Bogdan I - 1359
Dragon: 1359-1361
Sas: 1361-1365
Balk: 1365
Bogdan I (again): 1365-1367
Latcu: 1367-1375
Peter I: 1375-1391
Jerzy: 1377
Roman I: 1391-1393
Stefan I: 1394-1399
Juga: 1399-1400
Aleksander I The Good: 1400-1432
Eliasz I: 1432-1444
Stefan II: 1432-1447
Peter II: 1447-1448
Bogdan II: 1449-1451
Peter Aron: 1451-1457
Stefan III The Great: 1457-1504

[mircea]

I am especially interested if you have good graphical or descriptive sources for late-era military units, particularly dorobanti, or rosiori. If the rosiori are in fact just another light cavalry unit then we'll probably scrap them, given that we have both curteni and hansari.

"Oastea continuă să fie alcătuită din trei corpuri principale, şi anume: cetele boiereşti, oastea de curteni, aflată sub comanda vornicului în ambele ţări, şi ostile de ţară, în care se încadrau şi slujitorii (călăraşii şi darabanii). Lor li se adăugau unele corpuri de mercenari, care cîştigă în importanţă, pe măsură ce ne apropiem de sfîrşitul veacului.
Dacă în vremea lui Mircea cel Bătrîn baza oştirii o formau cetele boiereşti, în cea a lui Ştefan cel Mare şi pînă la mijlocul veacului al XVI-lea cetele de curteni, în epoca de care ne ocupăm, temeiul alcătuirii oştilor romîneşti îl con¬stituia această categorie privilegiată a slujitorilor, interesaţi în asigurarea succeselor puterii centrale, atît în interiorul ţării, împotriva marilor feudali, cît şi pe plan extern, împotriva duşmanilor dinafară.
Recrutaţi din lumea satelor, îndeosebi din rîndurile ţărănimii libere, rămasă fără ocină, slujitorii au fost înzestraţi cu pămînt fie individual, fie aşezaţi în grupuri pe pămînturile domneşti, ai căror posesori devin pe toată durata serviciului, în schimbul slujbei prestate, atît în timp de pace, cît şi de război, slujitorii beneficiau de unele privilegii fiscale, iar în perioadele de serviciu efectiv — căci el nu era continuu, ci se făcea cu schimbul — e foarte probabil că unii slujitori primeau şi leafă de la domnie.
în vreme de război, călăraşii, după cum îi arată şi numele, luptau călări, iar darabanii erau pedeştri. Un corp aparte de călăreţi, puţin numeros, îl alcă¬tuiau în Moldova aşa-numiţii hînsari. Ei formau oastea chemată să lupte «în dobîndă » (pentru pradă)." C. Daicoviciu

"Izvoarele îi prezintă pe curteni, în ambele ţări, ca pe o mică nobilime teritorială, o pătură de boiernaşi provinciali, care alcătuiau, încă din veacul al XV-lea, cadrele administrative ale statului în timp de pace şi un însemnat corp de oaste în timp de război"

"Roşii, una din cetele de curteni, se pare că au fost cel mai greu apăsaţi de bir. Actele pomenesc, pînă în deceniul al treilea al veacului următor, ocinele vîndute de roşii în timpul domniei lui Mihnea Turcitul, pentru a-şi putea plăti birul" C. Daicoviciu
Roamno-Dacis, here is something about calarasii, rosiorii and dorobantii

I know it is not in English, but it is too long to translate

[Romano-Dacis]

It's alright, stiu limba mea nativa.

Thanks again Mircea. Would rep if I could.

[mircea]

It's alright, stiu limba mea nativa.

And of that I'm sure , but I was alluding to the non/Romanian speakers from here

[Stakee]

The original map

My modification

1 Province name:Bukovina/Suceava Region; City:Suceava
2 Province name:Molodva/Iasi Region; City: Iasi
3 Province name:Basarabia/Besserabia; City: Cetatea Alba(The withe fortress)
4 Province name:Hotin; City: Soroca/Orhei

[Romano-Dacis]

Thank you for the recommendations. il_duce is actually working on the map currently and were discussing changing the number of cities and the provinces in Moldavia. From my understanding we will have six provinces, and these were my suggestions:
Cetatea Neamţ - Ţinutul Neamţului
Cetatea Albă - Bugeac
Hotin - Cernauţi
Baia - Moldau
Suceava - Ocolul Sucevei
Iaşi – Ocolul Iaşului

[speedyvm]

moldova rocks ! :

[Stakee]

Ok it was just an opinion, moldova looked TO long at its northern provinces

[Stakee]

Thank you for the recommendations. il_duce is actually working on the map currently and were discussing changing the number of cities and the provinces in Moldavia. From my understanding we will have six provinces, and these were my suggestions:
Cetatea Neamţ - Ţinutul Neamţului
Cetatea Albă - Bugeac
Hotin - Cernauţi
Baia - Moldau
Suceava - Ocolul Sucevei
Iaşi – Ocolul Iaşului

Ive edited a map of moldova with most of your recomendations and this came out.
opinions?


Ive olso aded pocutia
1 Province: Pocutia, town: Kolomya/Kolomea/Colomea/Colomia
2 Province: Cernauti, town: Hotin
3 Province: Bucovina/Bukovina/Ocolul Sucevei, town: Suceava(capital)
4 Province: Tinutul Neamt, town: Cetatea Neamt
5 Province: Ocolul Iasiului, town: Iasi
6 Province: Orhei, town: Soroca (but can be the other way around, depends wichit citadel was more important)
7 Province: Bugeac/Basarabia/Besserabia. town: Cetatea Alba


Ive used this map of moldova during stefan cel mare
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_cel_Mare.png

[Romano-Dacis]

Once again, excellent suggestions. I don't know why it never occured to me to call it Suceava.

[Stakee]

Once again, excellent suggestions. I don't know why it never occured to me to call it Suceava.

Se mai intampla(only for romano-dacis)

PS: i think we will exclude pocutia at the starting of the game but it would be nice for the province existence