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Thread: Grain Imports

  1. #1

    Default Grain Imports

    I'm running into a lot of problems with massive population growth due to grain imports. I have a lot of Minor Cities at >20,000 population (playing Thrace) which still have population growth due to 7% pop growth from grain imports. I literally cannot keep many of my cities from rebelling without putting a solid governor in them. Unfortunately, there are not enough solid governors to go around.

    Is there any way to resolve this without letting half my settlements rebel or modding the date files to remove some or all of the grain resources?

  2. #2
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Grain Imports

    Add recruitable generals. You may also want to raise the wage so AI wouldn't mass-create them.
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    Last edited by AqD; September 20, 2011 at 05:49 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Grain Imports

    Recruitable generals doesn't really solve the problem. The cities are growing so large that it takes multiple influence to keep them from rioting with a full garrison. I'm also getting constant plagues. All the while, they just keep growing. The largest grain imports I've found is in the Bosphoros where the bonus to growth is 9%, almost twice as large as the 5% growth rate from other sources.

    Around half of my settlements have 7% or more growth from grain imports alone. I don't recall seeing grain imports of this magnitude in other versions of RTR or other RTW mods.

  4. #4
    Brusilov's Avatar Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Grain Imports

    @aqd
    Well, modding the game to get around a problem isn't really solving the underlying problem which everyone else faces. In the end you're not playing RTR PE (or even RTR) so the advice you give is not really worth it as you're not playing RTR anymore.

    @jamey
    Can you attempt to recruit a lot of low cost units to reduce the population? They could either be used as an army to fight off rebels that appear or to move the population to another settlement. I know that's not ideal.

    Is there any building that you can construct that will reduce population growth?

    I guess part of the problem is that you cannot build your settlements up beyond a certain point which is one of the reasons why I tend to not play the Barbarian factions beyond a certain point.

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  5. #5
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Grain Imports

    Surely the parameters for population growth are set in some text files somewhere? I mean, each time you upgrade your farming infrastructure, for instance, which might give +2 in production here, this could be tweaked down to +1, and the population growth connected with market upgrades could be eliminated altogether, etc?
    But, yes, these may be things that must be adjusted before one starts a campaign.
    Last edited by Demokritos; February 03, 2008 at 06:07 AM.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Grain Imports

    Demokritos, no that wouldn't work since some settlements that are below that 20k size would then have negative growth until some 10k or less, which is again bad.
    The whole growth-squalor system is ineffective since it pits the wrong values against each other.
    Ideally growth should simply be capped at the available food, not be available food + anything else that gives extra growth, since IRL you can only alternate growth up to available food, but factors such as more diverse food (trade bonus), squalor, unhappiness/happiness and others only decide how much of the available maximum growth is actually used.

    Even barring that a 5% growth is crazily unrealistic in the age we're talking about, since growth mostly happened to be within 1% back then due all the ilnesses (the small ones, not plagues) and stuff.
    If it was anywhere near that, Rome would have billions of population by it's fall (even if we use simple percentages 5% x 20 = 100%, so it's like population doubling each 10 years, which, in turn, means a 1024x increase in 200 years, since 2^10 is 1024).
    If I could do anything in this matter I'd take the growth percentage after modifiers and have it divided by 10 - it'd be much more like truth like that.

  7. #7
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Grain Imports

    I see your point, binTravkin.
    Well, how have other mods solved this problem? I don't recall all of them having the same issue.

    This seems like a simple mathematical problem: how to design a system for population growth that, if all growth factors are in place, makes the population increase steadily, little by little, even beyond 20k, to a given limit of population size in the game, without causing uncontrollable unrest if all or most of the factors countering unrest are in place? If I knew all the factors for these things used in the game I would probably be able to come up with suggestion for it. But someone more knowledgeable would have to do that now.

    Regarding factors that counter unrest, is it possible to make the game engine take into account what kind of troops the garrison is made up of? For, in real life, the reputation of some units alone can put a lid on some unrest. A distinguished unit of the heavy battle line should count for more when it comes to public order than a peasant unit of the same size.
    Last edited by Demokritos; February 03, 2008 at 08:14 AM.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Grain Imports

    I believe that the root of the problem is the number of grain resources in various parts of the map (it looks like a settlement gets some +growth for each grain resource that is traded to you). The solution by modding text files would be to remove the excess grain resources so that you don't wind up with that kind of runaway growth.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Grain Imports

    Or edit the fertility of each region in descr_regions so that you get a balance between the grain trade and the necessary food for settlements to grow. It would need some testing/balancing to get it right all over the map though.

  10. #10
    Quinn Inuit's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Grain Imports

    Or replace one of the unused resources with grain. "Grain" is the only one linked to population growth, so you can easily have a grain resource that the game doesn't think is grain.
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  11. #11
    joerd9's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Grain Imports

    reducing the base farm value by 15-30% in regions.txt helps a bit too, I think, especially in those super fertile regions. Although that's quite tedious work.

  12. #12
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Grain Imports

    Quote Originally Posted by Brusilov View Post
    Is there any building that you can construct that will reduce population growth?
    No. If you read the EDB.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brusilov View Post
    I guess part of the problem is that you cannot build your settlements up beyond a certain point which is one of the reasons why I tend to not play the Barbarian factions beyond a certain point.
    The problem is NOT population keeps growing, but growing too fast. Being a non-barbarian faction doesn't help at all because your cities are always building markets and upgrading governments, no turn left for anything else unless you want it to rebel.
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    Last edited by AqD; September 20, 2011 at 06:05 AM.

  13. #13
    Quinn Inuit's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Grain Imports

    Well, you could always create a new building that has a negative growth effect. Still think it's easier just to replace grain with another resource that looks like grain, though.
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  14. #14
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Grain Imports

    I just tried to remove all grain resource and reduce base farm level by 50%. Now the growth rate of my iberian cities are between 1.5% to 0% (m/m difficulty), all with low-tax. If I use high tax or very high tax it'd not grow at all. Farms are required now to get higher growth so I made them more expensive.

    It's interesting to see how AI factions would act with those changes
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    Last edited by AqD; September 20, 2011 at 06:05 AM.

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